Some serious theological problems with the Christian religion

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: CB328

No religion can encompass the whole truth of the individual. That is one of the reasons I don't participate in a religion. They are simply not one size fits all. If you are truly looking for spiritual truth as you say then you will find it within yourself not in a religion.

Which is exactly what Jesus said;

Luke 17:21"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

I can only speak for myself, but I do not treat Jesus as a religion. To me He is simply Rabbi (Teacher). I don't do all the rituals, etc as this seems to only encourage the outward trappings and eventual drifting into everything be done for show and not for Spirit.

I can sum up the totality of the the theological problems with the religion of Christianity.

Having authorized theology in the first place is a problem.

Being a religion is a problem. It's better to just be.

And the most important:

The person who the religion is named after did not want what they are to exist in the first place.

Christianity is not the teachings of the Christ of the Gospel but a bastardized version of everything he taught (real theology).

Religion is what takes away the right of the individual to think for their self. And is always presented as a good decision (to give up your personal relationship with God and leave it in the hands of others).

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: CB328

Thats a little oversimplified
Many of your issues are about individual choice, we are all individuals, we are not as you would expect.
If we all believed in the exact same thing we would be accused of brain dead followers.

The Nicene creed is recognised as a foundational statement

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made. Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end. And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets. And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Now the word catholic in context means universal, not Roman Catholic

The rapture is unclear, personal choice

Jesus was not an advocate for wealth or poverty, Jesus was an advocate for commitment to God irrelevant of finances, you skew it.

Salvation is not earned, its a gift, from the bible
"Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,"
Philippians 2:12
We must work it out for ourselves, individually
Its an individuals religion, God doesnt treat everyone the same, guess why???


It amazes me, a non studied, non christian making a call based on assumption. /sarcasm

If there is one thing you havnt realised, its you dont know anything about christianity, you have placed your inconsistent reasoning into the theology

You crack me up sometimes. Thanks for the laugh this early in the morning.

SMH.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: CB328

No religion can encompass the whole truth of the individual. That is one of the reasons I don't participate in a religion. They are simply not one size fits all. If you are truly looking for spiritual truth as you say then you will find it within yourself not in a religion.

So you're saying Spiritual Truth is Subjective then???

It can become objective if you have enough measuring points and if the points are calibrated to be more objective than subjective then that helps too.

originally posted by: TheBwaap

god works in mysterious ways.

Quantum physics manifest on probability fields. Change the field and reality manifestation changes.

Synchronicity two event in space time connected. Entanglement 2 particles in space time connected.

To mojom,

Okay. Then point out the contradictions.

Nothing about that was carefully crafted. I didn't even correct my spelling and grammar.

originally posted by: visitedbythem
a reply to: CB328 Jesus went after the religious leaders. And them came after him and got him crucified. He stood against religion. He stood for a personal relationship with God through him. You didnt know that? Mohhammad was a perv, liar, thief, and murderer. Take your choice

There is part of it.

It is a personal relationship with God. Yours and not yours and a bunch of other peoples. Not yours through some appointed representative on earth to God.

Getting caught up in he said/she said here on earth is simply an excuse. What someone else says about it only a reason to you tell yourself to deny God. If, as you say, there is truth there, then that should be all that matters, not what your little old neighbor lady says, your pastor says, some guy out in Kalamazoo, MI, says, some YouTube person says, etc.

That is what discernment is.

a reply to: CB328

In my ongoing quest to analyze religion and it's effect on society I have had a realization lately about Christianity- namely that Christians themselves can't even agree on the vital tenets of the religion. Why should people be willing to devote their lives to a belief system that isn't even clearly defined? If you don't believe me, then read on.

Would you clarify that for me? What did you mean " Christians themselves can't even agree on the vital tenets of the religion." If one is a Christian then all who are Christians are in one accord. Most all of these denominations that exist as offshoots of the Roman or Greek orthodox are not necessarily Christians. As a theological fact, if it even exists, the Roman organizations are not of the Nazarene followers of Jesus. They are the murderers of the first and true followers of Jesus. They call themselves Christians but it is the same as Mormon's or Jehovah Witness or perhaps Catholics calling themselves Christians. By all definition they do not even resemble the first Jesus movement.

That would the same as comparing the prophets with the house of Annas as being Jews when the Jews of Jesus era did not even resemble the true Hebrew prophetic structure. The rabbinic Judaic practice had absolutely nothing in common with the doctrine of Jesus just as Catholic, JW and Mormon have nothing in common with the doctrine Jesus and His brother James.

Simply because this culture has dumped all of these denominations into one category called Christians means nothing in the true sense. Naturally any mention of the word Jesus in their nomenclature will dump them into the mindset of being a Christian of sorts but in all reality it is false. So when you say Christian you will have to be more specific then what you infer. The Koran gives lip service to the name of Jesus but is nowhere near Christianity and does nothing to honor the Christ Jesus as the begotten of God. In fact most all offshoots of the Roman religions as well as Rome itself do not resemble the Nazarene movement which is referenced as the first Christian movement.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: CB328

In my ongoing quest to analyze religion and it's effect on society I have had a realization lately about Christianity- namely that Christians themselves can't even agree on the vital tenets of the religion. Why should people be willing to devote their lives to a belief system that isn't even clearly defined? If you don't believe me, then read on.

Would you clarify that for me? What did you mean " Christians themselves can't even agree on the vital tenets of the religion." If one is a Christian then all who are Christians are in one accord. Most all of these denominations that exist as offshoots of the Roman or Greek orthodox are not necessarily Christians. As a theological fact, if it even exists, the Roman organizations are not of the Nazarene followers of Jesus. They are the murderers of the first and true followers of Jesus. They call themselves Christians but it is the same as Mormon's or Jehovah Witness or perhaps Catholics calling themselves Christians. By all definition they do not even resemble the first Jesus movement.

That would the same as comparing the prophets with the house of Annas as being Jews when the Jews of Jesus era did not even resemble the true Hebrew prophetic structure. The rabbinic Judaic practice had absolutely nothing in common with the doctrine of Jesus just as Catholic, JW and Mormon have nothing in common with the doctrine Jesus and His brother James.

Simply because this culture has dumped all of these denominations into one category called Christians means nothing in the true sense. Naturally any mention of the word Jesus in their nomenclature will dump them into the mindset of being a Christian of sorts but in all reality it is false. So when you say Christian you will have to be more specific then what you infer. The Koran gives lip service to the name of Jesus but is nowhere near Christianity and does nothing to honor the Christ Jesus as the begotten of God. In fact most all offshoots of the Roman religions as well as Rome itself do not resemble the Nazarene movement which is referenced as the first Christian movement.

This actually made the OP's point more clear. People who call themselves Christian spend a lot of their time arguing about who's a real Christian and who's not. They all read the same book and call themselves Christians, but then disagree as to whether or not the other people calling themselves Christians are really Christians or not.

The only successful rebuttal to the OP would be a clear account of what it means to be a Christian, one with which no other Christians disagree.

I think most Christians miss some of the basics. Like the Truth of God has been killed from this world so that you may live forever. Most don't even ask why that must be. You can make mistakes, and choose the wrong path, repent, be redeemed, and live in heaven not separated from God. Those that rebelled with full knowledge of the Truth of God, were cast out forever. If you sinned in the face of God as Satan did, you would be cast out also. Man kind is afforded a front row seat to the lies, theft and murder of Satan (he was cast down to earth) so that we can be shown instead of told. All religions are flawed, they are the inventions of man. But there is a God and a Truth of God. And I like to ask anyone who is a 'Christian', what day is the Sabbath?

I think the major problem is much of the religion is based on the lies of Paul. Who was basically just making stuff up.

a reply to: craterman


So.. God sacrificed himself, to himself, to save humanity from himself? Sounds legit.. Reductio ad absurdum proves an easy exercise!

a reply to: CB328
Not only can't they agree what the whole thing means but they mutilate their book to fit their message.

Also, the reason there are so many branches is they all want to have their own interpretation. I can't take it seriously, really.

originally posted by: birdxofxprey

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: CB328

In my ongoing quest to analyze religion and it's effect on society I have had a realization lately about Christianity- namely that Christians themselves can't even agree on the vital tenets of the religion. Why should people be willing to devote their lives to a belief system that isn't even clearly defined? If you don't believe me, then read on.

Would you clarify that for me? What did you mean " Christians themselves can't even agree on the vital tenets of the religion." If one is a Christian then all who are Christians are in one accord. Most all of these denominations that exist as offshoots of the Roman or Greek orthodox are not necessarily Christians. As a theological fact, if it even exists, the Roman organizations are not of the Nazarene followers of Jesus. They are the murderers of the first and true followers of Jesus. They call themselves Christians but it is the same as Mormon's or Jehovah Witness or perhaps Catholics calling themselves Christians. By all definition they do not even resemble the first Jesus movement.

That would the same as comparing the prophets with the house of Annas as being Jews when the Jews of Jesus era did not even resemble the true Hebrew prophetic structure. The rabbinic Judaic practice had absolutely nothing in common with the doctrine of Jesus just as Catholic, JW and Mormon have nothing in common with the doctrine Jesus and His brother James.

Simply because this culture has dumped all of these denominations into one category called Christians means nothing in the true sense. Naturally any mention of the word Jesus in their nomenclature will dump them into the mindset of being a Christian of sorts but in all reality it is false. So when you say Christian you will have to be more specific then what you infer. The Koran gives lip service to the name of Jesus but is nowhere near Christianity and does nothing to honor the Christ Jesus as the begotten of God. In fact most all offshoots of the Roman religions as well as Rome itself do not resemble the Nazarene movement which is referenced as the first Christian movement.

This actually made the OP's point more clear. People who call themselves Christian spend a lot of their time arguing about who's a real Christian and who's not. They all read the same book and call themselves Christians, but then disagree as to whether or not the other people calling themselves Christians are really Christians or not.

The only successful rebuttal to the OP would be a clear account of what it means to be a Christian, one with which no other Christians disagree.

We were first called Christians in Antioch.

A true Christian believes that Jesus Christ is Lord, and that He died for the sins of the world. Everyone is forgiven and is saved by grace by simply believing.

When one believes, one realizes that we are hypocrites to hold anything against another person, because God forgave all people by His sacrifice.

Jesus came back to life to prove that God had given Him power to defeat death.

Therefore, those who believe will live forever. Those who don't believe have rejected the gift from God. The gift is salvation. If one rejects salvation, then they place themselves under the law. Therefore, because all have transgressed the law, any who reject the fact that the Judge has thrown out the charges against them, the same are begging the Judge to exact punishment.

The law says that the wages of sin is death. That is the punishment to be received if one rejects the Judge's mercy.

Because one realizes this, then one will realize to love everyone the way God loves us.

Jesus was the only perfect man, yet He died. Because an innocent had died, the law had been fulfilled. It was completed. There must be a propitiation for sin. There must be a precedent to say, "No more death" in order for people to be saved. The precedent is set because the Innocent suffered the penalty of the law which He didn't break, but only fulfilled until the end.

Now therefore all are made innocent that recognize the simple fact the Jesus, our Lord, Perfect, died on our account. All are made happy that realize that He defeated death and offers us the option to do so as well.

God saved us who destroyed by allowing the only man who had ever obeyed Him completely to suffer.

You must see the sacrifice in that.

That is like having a team of bad players on a sports team, and only one good, and the Coach chooses to make the better player do all the laps and hard work for the bad players so that he can call the other players good.

And then the Coach points and says, "Be like Him."

Jesus is our example, if we want to be perfect.

But salvation is free. One has but to receive it in truth.

Many receive it in dishonesty, for material gain, for friendships, for networking, for image, for boredom, for control - and if we were good, we'd get them out of the churches. They stir up and judge to take the spotlight off of themselves.

And also to cause others to not believe.

But anyone willing to seek the truth will not be misdirected for long because of the wolves in sheep's clothing.

Helping the poor, the widows, the orphans, the sick, and the miserable, instead of judging them; forgiving everyone's mistakes as we ask God to forgive ours; calling on the Lord to be in charge of our lives because He can see 4-dimensionally and we can not; these are the things a Christian does.

I want you to take note, Christians make mistakes, too.

We do not call for war, but for defense. We do not call for hatred, but for redemption. We do not think other denominations have it all wrong and are apostates, but we make sure nobody forgets the core beliefs and values of the Christian. We do not believe in only a materialistic view, but we have experienced that which can't be examined. And we don't call for an earthly king, because Jesus is our King.

We Christians do have our individual personalities. If the 7th day makes you feel better, fine, just don't cause other Christians in faith to stumble for your choice of liberty. If you like wine or grape juice, whichever suits you, just don't cause the other to stumble for your choice of liberty.

For the world, adapting the Christian faith to your own desires is the opposite of what this faith means. It means over time conforming to that which is right. Going against nature is a sign one wants to continue the same mistakes they've been making that they've asked forgiveness for. That's not good. And churches that allow it are meeting halls of blasphemy. If we beg mercy of the Judge and keep doing the things from which we needed saving, does the Judge keep dismissing the case? Not forever.

So to be Christian is to desire truth and not manipulation; honesty and not deflection; sacrifice and not hording.

Money may not follow one to the grave, but spiritual currency does. And spiritual currency is just like our money today, it is a promissory note, a note of debt. The more you have, the worse off you actually are when you die.

You need someone to forgive that debt and liquidate it before that day.

a reply to: TarzanBeta

A true Christian believes that Jesus Christ is Lord, and that He died for the sins of the world. Everyone is forgiven and is saved by grace by simply believing.

Sounds very Paulian to me...

Jesus didn't teach the doctrine of Grace

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: TarzanBeta

A true Christian believes that Jesus Christ is Lord, and that He died for the sins of the world. Everyone is forgiven and is saved by grace by simply believing.

Sounds very Paulian to me...

Jesus didn't teach the doctrine of Grace

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Its not that you havnt read the word, you havnt applied intellect

People are all unique and individual, there is no global religion, Christianity is personal, between the individual and Christ.
Each person has a journey based on their life lived
We all grow in different ground, learn study, desire differently

Common sense dictates there is no one size fits all in life, especially faith

Just say a person gets lost in the prosperity movement, If they truly are seeking God and not wealth, "if they continue to work out their salvation with fear and trembling,"

God will honor them

Actually I have no problem with the version you're describing. It's more "All paths lead to God" than the traditional "Only one path leads to God". I personally like your version better.

However, that is not and has never been the dominate form of Christianity or the other Judeo-Christian Religions. Because allowing for a Subjective Personal Experience which is unique to each individual would mean there if flexibility in the rules and path one would take and clearly that is not how it's taught or how most Christians think of it.

If they did they wouldn't constantly be at odds with everyone else, even the other versions of Christian sects.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle

It can become objective if you have enough measuring points and if the points are calibrated to be more objective than subjective then that helps too.

Well, it really wouldn't become objective exactly. If it's objective then it's objective. Just because you're not able to prove it wouldn't change that. All that would change is you being able to show that it's objective where you were unable to before.

Like your elephant. It was always an elephant even if the men couldn't prove it and didn't know it. Nothing changes by them figuring that out other than their incorrect beliefs about it. But the elephant was always an elephant.

As said before, christian beliefs are going to differ. It was called the Great Schism for nothing. It wasn't called The Reformation for nothing.

Religion is needed in society for those who otherwise would have no moral structure. It may be hard for a lot us here to believe but without religion people have a hard time following morals/ethics.
Personally my beliefs stem from the non-aggression principle but a lot of people do not have a hard guide to keep them civil.

Jesus is awesome whether a believer or not. A being of goodness. A role model. Something to strive for.

The 10 commandments are pretty good.
Golden Rules:
Mathew 7:12 Therefore whatever you desire for men to do to you, you
shall also do to them; for this is the law and the prophets.
or
Luke 6:31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

We could go on but I believe all one has to do to be a good person is uphold the golden rule.