After outcry, FBI releases full transcript of Orlando nightclub shooting call

a reply to: TechniXcality

Yeah. If we can't say the magic words we won't ever beat ISIS. Another idiotic trumpisms. Hey let's arm the drunks. That would have made things better. Boom right?

originally posted by: joemoe
a reply to: Gryphon66

It has nothing to do with the First Amendment. The government did not prevent him from saying anything or believing in anything. However, when he committed the the massacre (which is illegal correct?), he pledge to ISIS. So should we not equate that act to him being a "Radical Islamist"?

You wanted to focus on Mateen's religion. Now you don't. Being Muslim is not against the laws. What is against the law in the United States is to treat Americans differently simply because of their religion.

What difference does it make that Mateen thought he was doing this "for ISIS"? There is no evidence that he was part of any actual ISIS network, no evidence that he was part of "a sleeper cell" no evidence at all that he was connected in any way except IN HIS OWN mind to any actual terrorists (like Hamas and al-Qaeda).

What do we as a people gain from someone like Mateen being labeled a "radical Islamist"?

Allow me to answer for you and feel free to correct ... what it accomplishes is making the statement that Islam and Muslims are radicalized terrorists and are to be feared and deprived (in this case) of their rights as an American citizen.

That about right?

a reply to: Sillyolme

Hmmm.

originally posted by: DupontDeux

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: TechniXcality

According to other FBI reports, from their earlier investigation, this dude, an American citizen who broke no laws at the time, didn't even know if he was Sunni or Shia.

That sounds .. implausible.

Maybe they mean that he did not identify is either, but simply as muslim. He definitely would have known though.

Or it was a tactic to throw them off more likely.

a reply to: Sillyolme

Yeah. If we can't say the magic words we won't ever beat ISIS. Another idiotic trumpisms. Hey let's arm the drunks. That would have made things better. Boom right?

No we don't have to arm the drunks. Just provide a true "Safe Zones" (metal detectors and armed guards) or do not disarm the sober. Just like drinking if you drink don't drive if you carry don't drink.

a reply to: joemoe


They said the references to the other groups was on his computer.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: Gryphon66

Knowing exactly where the breakdown occurred is paramount in giving an informed opinion, playing the jester doesn't make your point any more valid or mine any less.( As a general position) the Islamic terrorist should have been treated like an Islamic terrorist, and thus perhaps still monitored from a distance.

Your only point is that someone the FBI investigated went on to commit a mass murder. How many other Americans have been investigated that didn't? You're mighty close to trying to capitalize on this tragedy for purely political reasons.

Perhaps "breakdown" occurred because Mateen didn't have any actual ties to ISIS or al-Qaeda or Hamas?

I do think it's important that you see what you're really advocating for here though ... you are advocating for the FBI/US Government to continue to harass and invade the privacy of an AMERICAN CITIZEN because you don't like his religion or his politics.

You can dress that up as concern over "security lapses" but that's what you're really saying ... and that's what really bothers me.

I don't trust the government that much.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Look, your people get chucked off of buildings in the Middle East while mine get their throats slit. The common element in this is that the dominant religion there hates us both.

That is also the common thread in this night club shooting. Deal. With. It.

You can ban all the guns you like, and it will not change that fact or the results of it.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: joemoe


They said the references to the other groups was on his computer.

And did that change anything? He is still a "Radical Islamist".

originally posted by: Brett83

originally posted by: DupontDeux

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: TechniXcality

According to other FBI reports, from their earlier investigation, this dude, an American citizen who broke no laws at the time, didn't even know if he was Sunni or Shia.

That sounds .. implausible.

Maybe they mean that he did not identify is either, but simply as muslim. He definitely would have known though.

Or it was a tactic to throw them off more likely.

Not necessarily - people frequently identify (or at the very least refer to themselves) as Christian and not, say, Catholic. Could be the same here.

a reply to: ketsuko You mean like there are probably lots of people that have been investigated for certain red flags that turn up false and so it is just too hard for the FBI to know a threatening person from Joe some, just living life with no ill intent on anyone?

I think mateen was mentally disturbed... that's my label for him and I find it strange there weren't recognizable signs before he snapped... like that guy who stabbed people in the belief they were werewolves and vampires.

a reply to: 200Plus

Allah is like a Jesus figure. He's a prophet not god.. The God of Islam is the same God as Christianity and the Jews. The God of Abraham.
Oh say it ain't so. But it is.

a reply to: Gryphon66

No, I don't like that he murdered 49 of our innocent people, with the sick notions of radical Islam in his mind, and in his words, and in his actions. I don't like that our security failed us miserably, and I want to know exactly where the breakdown occurred, you are disgusting talking about a dead Islamic terrorists rights, and how they needed to be protected, that's a disgusting viewpoint (while claiming I am capatlizing on the tragedy, you can # off) You go ahead and take your " high road" about protecting civil liberties (which I'm not against), but let me spell this out for you and this is the end of the discussion, because I am not spinning anything I am stating facts! A man who was investigated for Islamism went on to commit an attack under the umbrella of radical Islam, our security failed us and we must/WILL investigate this.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

Look, your people get chucked off of buildings in the Middle East while mine get their throats slit. The common element in this is that the dominant religion there hates us both.

That is also the common thread in this night club shooting. Deal. With. It.

You can ban all the guns you like, and it will not change that fact or the results of it.

No one, again, is suggesting that guns be "banned" ... is that the only thing that "you folks" can hear?

There are plenty of folks right here in this country in YOUR religion that advocate the same things as ISIS does.

Would would you say if I damned Christianity because of what some Christians say?

Yet, you're fine to condemn 1.8 billion people because of what a few thousand do.

And PS, ISIS has killed far more Muslims than either Christians or Homosexuals.

Why don't you deal with the fact that this was a hate crime against LGBT folks?

I'll tell you why ... because it doesn't fit your noxious little agenda.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: 200Plus

Allah is like a Jesus figure. He's a prophet not god.. The God of Islam is the same God as Christianity and the Jews. The God of Abraham.
Oh say it ain't so. But it is.

Shining example of liberal knowledge.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

You have just validated the power of someone who wants nothing more than that validation.

Censorship and Going Full retard against your privacy rights validated that long ago.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: 200Plus

Allah is like a Jesus figure. He's a prophet not god.. The God of Islam is the same God as Christianity and the Jews. The God of Abraham.
Oh say it ain't so. But it is.

Now you are just lying.
Christianity....gee wonder where that word comes from???? Could it be those who are Christians worship Christ?

You ,and the govt changing allah to god in the transcript, are both FAILS.

As much as you want people to believe it, Christianity is not equivalent to Islam.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: Gryphon66

No, I don't like that he murdered 49 of our innocent people, with the sick notions of radical Islam in his mind, and in his words, and in his actions. I don't like that our security failed us miserably, and I want to know exactly where the breakdown occurred, you are disgusting talking about a dead Islamic terrorists rights, and how they needed to be protected, that's a disgusting viewpoint (while claiming I am capatlizing on the tragedy, you can # off) You go ahead and take your " high road" about protecting civil liberties (which I'm not against), but let me spell this out for you and this is the end of the discussion, because I am not spinning anything I am stating facts! A man who was investigated for Islamism went on to commit an attack under the umbrella of radical Islam, our security failed us and we must/WILL investigate this.

Perhaps if you stop trying to capitalize on the tragedy, I'll stop pointing it out.

You had your say, now I think I'll take mine.

The only thing you want to cry about here is a "breakdown in security." You want to wail about the words "radical Islam" but you haven't said a thing about this being an attack not only on Americans but on LGBT Americans. This is the most horrible HATE CRIME in American history, and yet, you're not saying a word about that fact, about the fact that gay Americans were obviously targeted because of nothing more than their sexual orientation.

Why? Because that doesn't fit your political agenda! It's more important for you and yours to imply that Mateen was a radical Muslim than to acknowledge the equally realistic and far more logical possibility that he was a self-hating gay man who was pushed over the edge of sanity by yet another religion that condemns him simply because of who he is.

Don't talk to me about being "disgusted" Tech.

a reply to: Sillyolme

Allah is like a Jesus figure?
Do you have any idea how wrong you are (like usual).

Allah IS the Abrahamic God of the bible. NO Muslim refers to Him as God, just as no Christian calls Him Allah.

Mohammad (PBUH) is a prophet, like Jesus.

However, in the transcripts we see a Muslim continuously saying "God". Of course in actuality he was saying "Allah" but this would reinforce the fact that a Muslim had just committed an act of terror inside the United States. With the replacement and use of "God" rather than "Allah" it allows a downplay of the facts.

It also feeds into the "anyone could have done this" narrative we always see after one of these Muslim attacks (but never a non-Muslim attack). The crusades will be brought up because the attacker said "God" so many times.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

Look, your people get chucked off of buildings in the Middle East while mine get their throats slit. The common element in this is that the dominant religion there hates us both.

That is also the common thread in this night club shooting. Deal. With. It.

You can ban all the guns you like, and it will not change that fact or the results of it.

No one, again, is suggesting that guns be "banned" ... is that the only thing that "you folks" can hear?

There are plenty of folks right here in this country in YOUR religion that advocate the same things as ISIS does.

Would would you say if I damned Christianity because of what some Christians say?

Yet, you're fine to condemn 1.8 billion people because of what a few thousand do.

And PS, ISIS has killed far more Muslims than either Christians or Homosexuals.

Why don't you deal with the fact that this was a hate crime against LGBT folks?

I'll tell you why ... because it doesn't fit your noxious little agenda.

No one is blaming all of Islam. We are blaming "Radical Islam", if it was a "Radical Christian" that commit this massacre, we would blame "Radical Christians". The problem we are having is that we should be focusing on the real problem of radicalization of Muslims. It's not a Gun issue.