Elon Musk: One in Billion Chance We AREN’T Living in a Computer Simulation

a reply to: Baddogma

I certainly believe that we are eternal souls that live on . . . either in fellowship with Creator God, or horribly not.

I think the brain neurosurgeon MD that had an NDE and a long recuperation has the narrative that most demonstrates that the naysaying alternate explanations simply do NOT HOLD WATER, in his case. I forget his name. His book is on my Kindle. But I'm to lazy to search it at the moment.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Eban Alexander if my memory is working... didn't read that but don't really need to, as the literature is too lengthy for one lifetime as it is... but if one dedicates a few months going through the files of the SPR, for instance, ending at death seems the least likely possibility.

Add to that the seeming plasticity of this reality, and a simulation is the best answer with what we know at this point... the fact reality fuzzes out below the Planck length is a very good indication that we hit the rendering limit for god's computer there... and any base reality could likely be infinitely divisible.

But simulation is a tricky word... as it can only be experienced once out of it, so it doesn't much matter either way, as here we be.

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: Apollumi

That's all fascinating but it begs a question: IF this is a highly advanced simulation, completely indistinguishable from reality, what is the chance we put ourselves here on purpose?

Shouldn't we be trying to "win?"

Who plays the latest "Call of Duty" game to quit at some arbitrary point before "winning" or accomplishing some goal or other?

Put another way: imagine a world where the population has been decimated by something awful, and the remaining "people" live their daily lives knowing they caused their own "fall." Now imagine this world is very similar to our own, except 200+ years in the future, and we have depleted most of our natural resources, and driven the remaining animals to (near) extinction. What if it's all bugs, and bug soup and bug gruel and burying corpses while you slowly drop dead?

Now imagine that a technology exists which can simulate a lifetime in some historical period or other. Imagine that the future humans face a choice: die slowly from dwindling resources and a poisonous environment, or log into a game and live an entire lifetime (or more) there, before you die?

Maybe that's why the AI who worked the human farm in the Matrix looked so much like spiders? Maybe the last thing we saw, before logging on to our birth in this simulation was insects, crawling all over our pods?

I'd be very careful what I wished for.

We did put ourselves here on purpose. As I understand it.

Considering fearful futures, or past, I would say man can only know his own truth and that is relative. You see eating bugs in some possible future as a bad thing. If that is all you ever knew you'd be just fine with it. You simply would not know any better. It would be your truth and reality.

As far as time is concerned I would suggest reading as many NDE stories as possible. Over and over again I have read the same thing "there is no time, time is an illusion". Everything happens simultaneously. Near Death experiences talk about how hard this is to explain but it is as natural as breathing on the other side. It's been stated so many times that I firmly believe it. There is no time, it is an illusion.

NDERF

near-death.com

a reply to: Apollumi

No argument from me. The thing about potential futures is you can play with them all as thought experiments, and come to an understanding of (with?) them.

I can just easily easily imagine fantastic "real worlds," or even apparently fantastic "real worlds." It doesn't matter. My own experiences of death tell me that it is nothing but a door. As long as I am in here, I plan on "playing to win," but -- let me back into the boot-loader again, and I plan to push through it -- past the wub -- and into whatever *is* beyond it, for better or worse.

Good game, guys, but the robot needs a "break."

a reply to: Baddogma

The MD brain/neural surgeon I'm thinking of was much more recent than Eben's experiences and book.

I just don't recall his name.

Thanks.

a reply to: Apollumi

I think a Mormon author contends that each individual meets with Father, Almighty God before being born into the world--to decide together what major traumas that individual will experience in their life for their spiritual maturing/education.

Certainly there's no Biblical hint at that--but neither is there any Biblical statement that would prevent such a truth.

imho, that is the sort of thing that would be TRUE TO ABBA's CHARACTER.

Time will tell.

His argument is the evolution of video games...maybe he is right since we are destroying the planet and people are hungry and poor...you think if the human race had free will we would be in a much better place? If we are part of a simulation that means everything is somewhat pre-determined? Maybe not our whole future is pre-determined, but seconds in advanced as someone is holding a controller and pressing the buttons and moving the joystick?

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: Apollumi

I think a Mormon author contends that each individual meets with Father, Almighty God before being born into the world--to decide together what major traumas that individual will experience in their life for their spiritual maturing/education.

Certainly there's no Biblical hint at that--but neither is there any Biblical statement that would prevent such a truth.

imho, that is the sort of thing that would be TRUE TO ABBA's CHARACTER.

Time will tell.

This makes me think of Plato's 'The Myth of Er'. It is considered to be a Greek NDE account. And yes, I think we chose our path. So many people have died and been told to go back because their work is not yet complete. Many are given a choice though but are told if they come back to heaven now they will just have to repeat this life again. Concerning The Myth of Er you have to take social norms into consideration for how the story was eventually told.


Myth of Er

a reply to: BO XIAN
Forgive me as I've merely read that which you've posted, but suppose this were proven beyond doubt to be true, what would change in terms of the value of life. Would we consider ourselves life for that matter?

simulation Yes , but not done by a computer. Is simulation of an higher order reality.

1 am.....Branniff terminal.....tug hit by 747 loader in a road too skinny......I was leaning in the back car when it hit...we had a spiritual war with the old boys and Branniff was gone in 6 months....so you can imagine we had devine protection... they were a foul bunch.....a reply to: BO XIAN

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: Apollumi

I think a Mormon author contends that each individual meets with Father, Almighty God before being born into the world--to decide together what major traumas that individual will experience in their life for their spiritual maturing/education.

Certainly there's no Biblical hint at that--but neither is there any Biblical statement that would prevent such a truth.

imho, that is the sort of thing that would be TRUE TO ABBA's CHARACTER.

Time will tell.

Perhaps the Bible does mention this. In a way at least.

I started reading NDE accounts because I had read through the Bible (old and new testament) 3 times. To me reading the NDE accounts helped me to understand why Christ said what he did. I am not so much a fan of emperor Constatine and the Counsel of Nicaea for I think it laid the groundwork for one of the religions as we know it now. Why exclude the book of Enoch? Why exclude so many of the other books unless you wanted a scripted story which accomplishes the opposite of what Christ had wanted for man. But, that's a different story. Sorry, distracted for a sec.

A little reading between the lines is needed below I think.

John

There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: imsoconfused

If there's any truth to the simulation metaphor or theory--then I am convinced that God would name it something quite different than Warcraft.

Since there has been countless wars fought in his name, I think he might call it exactly that.. LOl we are just running around collecting coin and items, and fighting a few battles here and there just getting more experience points.

Sounds like we are in a video game anyway.

a reply to: Apollumi

Thanks for the Plato narrative. Have long studied some of his stuff . . . beginning in High School.

I don't believe in reincarnation.

I do think that our experiences in this life have very great eternal implications.

a reply to: frenchfries

That's Dr Chuck Missler's contention.

And the Bible does indicate that this is a lower order reality as a relatively minor but important subset of that larger reality.

originally posted by: LordAstaroth
a reply to: BO XIAN
Forgive me as I've merely read that which you've posted, but suppose this were proven beyond doubt to be true, what would change in terms of the value of life. Would we consider ourselves life for that matter?

I think that has been my contention from first learning or thinking of this possibility.

We are called/ destined/ challenged to treat what we observe, experience etc. as utterly 100% real in all the best definitions of real. We get no points nor benefits for thinking or acting otherwise.

I don't think it would change the value of life. The givens are the givens whether this is a great Cosmic Game Daddy has set up or the 'real' life that millennia of humans have construed it to be. We are called to deal growthfully, constructively, lovingly with the givens as they are--particularly our unique givens presented to us every moment from birth. Whether it is a simulation or not would not change that, imho.

I don't think it would matter what WE considered of ourselves. Yehovah's perspective is the only one that ultimately and eternally counts.

That He has given us a measure of free will is evidently a fact. That we don't have 100% free will is also a fact. That we are responsible for our CHOICES between those two boundaries is the crux of our spiritual growth and maturing, imho.

a reply to: Apollumi

I think the Apostle John wrote exactly as Holy Spirit moved him to write.

I do not believe that any accurate reading between the lines changes the plain meaning of the words and sentences.

imho.

a reply to: imsoconfused

I think He might label it something like:

--A COURSE IN THE PRICELESS NATURE OF LOVE

or

--A COURSE IN REALIZING & APPREHENDING SONSHIP

or

--A COURSE IN BECOMING

or

--A COURSE IN ETERNAL VALUES

or

--A COURSE IN MERGING INTO YOUR DESTINY.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Don't get me wrong, Musk is a genius.

However, this is a little bit of an inaccurate guess imho. It's more of an infinitely complex, yet infinitely simple, never ending loop of energy and consciousness which are probably one in the same.

Why does it all order itself the way that it does? Well, why not? Or simply, just because. Simple as that. The details however, go on forever.

Yeah, and YOU are the one in charge of the simulation.

Well, your higher self is.

You, as in the person reading these words...you are just an avatar that has forgotten everything before your character started playing the simulation.

*pst* Wake up. We're all waiting for you to wake up...You've been sleeping a long time, it's OK to wake up now.