If reincarnation is not true, then Elijah did not return before the Christ as prophesized

a reply to: windword

I'll solve this arguement quick...

Elijah died, where ever he went he eventually died... its as simple as that

And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

120 is as far as we can survive according to the bible...

Done

a reply to: Akragon

120 is as far as we can survive according to the bible...

AH! I guess that explains what happened to Lazareth and all the others who were raised from the dead!

a reply to: AkragonAccording to the NT Elijah is alive and he appeared with Moses on the Mount when Jesus was transfigured and Peter saw him.

he went to heaven with his body he has not died.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Did Moses also avoid death? He was also seen alive in the same scene, right?

a reply to: windwordNo Moses died as the scriptures state. and the devil and angles fought over his body. Elijah was taken alive into heaven there were multiple witnesses to this event. the difference is ne went to heaven bodily the others did not.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

The difference? Both Elijah and Moses were alive at the scene of the transfiguration. What's the difference that makes the appearance of Elijah more valid for your hypothesis than the appearance of a living Moses, who died in biblical the narrative?

a reply to: windwordwhy are you arguing over whether or who is alive or dead seeing you believe it is all allegory anyway.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: AkragonAccording to the NT Elijah is alive and he appeared with Moses on the Mount when Jesus was transfigured and Peter saw him.

he went to heaven with his body he has not died.

I know what the book says happened to him...

But there is myth and reality.... and the reality is everyone will eventually die...

Elijah died just like every other person in history... So did Enoch...

When they "appeared" with Jesus (wearing name tags im sure) they were in spirit... not in flesh

a reply to: Raggedyman

According to the Gospel, Jesus saw a man who had been blind since birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" Jesus replied:

Why did they ask if the man had sinned which is why he was born blind. Clearly they are alluding to reincarnation.

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: Raggedyman

According to the Gospel, Jesus saw a man who had been blind since birth. His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" Jesus replied:

Why did they ask if the man had sinned which is why he was born blind. Clearly they are alluding to reincarnation.

Really, really

Tell me Joe, what could I say that would change what you think.

Anything I or any other christian can say is irrelevant to you

Why do you think the disciples asked the question, they didnt believe in reincarnation, they didnt understand.

"This translation makes good sense, biblically. Jesus shows us that the question to ask is not, “Who sinned?” but “What can we do to help the situation?” He does not leave us with some mysterious purpose for the man’s blindness, but fights for his healing, rejecting the disciples’ desire to point fingers at who is to blame. This also fits well with the context, as Jesus goes on to talk about the necessity of working the works of God while he can."
www.truthortradition.com...

Seven years a christian and you were that interested you never studied it, the whole internet at your fingertips and you never invested your time into studying, just listened to a preacher telling you what to think.

2 Timothy 2:15

a reply to: Raggedyman

No one could possibly be at fault for the blind man but himself...

The works of God were manifested in his blindness, and though what the world and this person will learn in their incarnations because of his affliction

Caused by his "debt" from a previous incarnation

Its called Karma my friend, and it is a biblical concept

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Raggedyman

No one could possibly be at fault for the blind man but himself...

The works of God were manifested in his blindness, and though what the world and this person will learn in their incarnations because of his affliction

Caused by his "debt" from a previous incarnation

Its called Karma my friend, and it is a biblical concept

Ak
Please believe what you want to
Karma is about reincarnation, reincarnation might be gnostic doctrine, I dont know

I dont believe in reincarnation or karma

couragewithgrace.org...

Its not biblical, and considering you dont accept the bible, whats the point

a reply to: Raggedyman

im not asking you to believe in either....

im telling you both are biblical IF one knows where to look...

the people of that time knew all about reincarnation... and it was a much older concept in all religions including Judaism... Only Christianity rejected it completely due the the fact that the idea removes the need for the Clergy of the church(s)

As it has been pointed out by windword, even some of the early church fathers believed in the idea

And as for Karma... well

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

That... is the point

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Raggedyman

im not asking you to believe in either....

im telling you both are biblical IF one knows where to look...

the people of that time knew all about reincarnation... and it was a much older concept in all religions including Judaism... Only Christianity rejected it completely due the the fact that the idea removes the need for the Clergy of the church(s)

As it has been pointed out by windword, even some of the early church fathers believed in the idea

And as for Karma... well

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

That... is the point

I am sure I have told you before I will again.
I dont believe you or most of what you say
stop telling me, tell some one else

I am not interested in your gnosticism

The Jews who are irrelevant to you, nah, whats the point?

Jesus taught GRACE

a reply to: Raggedyman

Paul Taught Grace

Jesus didn't use the word once...

But once again... thank you for showing your ignorance

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Raggedyman

Paul Taught Grace

Jesus didn't use the word once...

But once again... thank you for showing your ignorance

Oh Touche, you win.

Its karma then, the bible teaches reincarnation and humanity comes back as trees, whatever YOU want.

Me, I will accept healing from my sin from Jesus, simply because He loves me

I will enjoy my ignorance and you can have your secret knowledge, super smart, enlightened and cleverer beliefs.

Oh and I thought Paul/Saul was chosen by God and was AWESOME as a man.

Much respect for Paul and his teaching, man of God,

You pile your hate on him, me I will read, study and respect his teachings

Must be hard for you, having to deal with others opinions you hate, people who accept teaching you hate, dealing with people who wont accept your silly gnostic beliefs

a reply to: Raggedyman

Please refer to the last line of my previous post...

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Raggedyman

Paul Taught Grace

Jesus didn't use the word once...

But once again... thank you for showing your ignorance

Oh Touche, you win.

Its karma then, the bible teaches reincarnation and humanity comes back as trees, whatever YOU want.

Me, I will accept healing from my sin from Jesus, simply because He loves me

I will enjoy my ignorance and you can have your secret knowledge, super smart, enlightened and cleverer beliefs.

Oh and I thought Paul/Saul was chosen by God and was AWESOME as a man.

Much respect for Paul and his teaching, man of God,

You pile your hate on him, me I will read, study and respect his teachings

Must be hard for you, having to deal with others opinions you hate, people who accept teaching you hate, dealing with people who wont accept your silly gnostic beliefs

You guys are beefin' over a book that tells a story for the uninitiated (fiction) and for the intellectual it is allegory.

Both Old and New Testament writers were skilled in the art of preserving secrets by concealing them in plain sight.

Not a word of it is historical. Grace is the ultimate scam to get people to not look into things with scrutiny. "Just trust us, we know what is best."

Grace is that "shortcut" (to heaven, immortality) that ends up being a dead end.

By the time you get to the gates they will be closed.


Separate the wheat from the tares.


God to the newly dead person:

"What did you learn in your life?"

Answer:


"Faith and grace is salvation"


God: "Who told you that?"


Answer: " Paul."


God: "Too bad for you he was conning you. I wanted you to learn and be good. You have done neither. You had faith in a man in a book and not me?"



Ezra and Nehemiah would die of laughter if they were still alive and knew people were reading his book as literal history 2500 years later even though he wrote it to conceal ancient secrets that only the priest knew.

The people were so uncivilized they were eating there children. He told them he got the word of God from God at the same place as "Moses" and taught lessons on the Law to civilize a primitive and naturally gullible people.


But if any person who wants to find out the truth can today.

Catholic Church documents admit Jesus was stoned to death in his 60's for stealing the Torah and the Talmud confirms it.

Learn the Panther.


Oh, the definition of the word Gnostic is 'knowledge of a spiritual nature.' There is no religion that DOESN'T claim to have that.

So you are a Gnostic, you just don't know what it means and you think it is a literal belief system. It is an umbrella term that was used in the early years of the church that applied to any group that believed in Christ but wasn't under their dogmatic oppressive control.

Including the Nazarenes and Ebionites, the first two Messianic churches ever.

So, yeah, you have silly beliefs. You believe that God is 3 entities one of whom was offered as a human/God sacrifice for your sins.

Yeah that's logical. Not silly at all. And it isn't silly that you follow the teachings of a guy who never met Jesus and contradicts him every time he speaks or writes.

a reply to: Parazurvan

Catholic Church documents admit Jesus was stoned to death in his 60's for stealing the Torah and the Talmud confirms it.

Which documents?

a reply to: Parazurvan

Catholic Church documents admit Jesus was stoned to death in his 60's for stealing the Torah and the Talmud confirms it.

There were a lot of people named Jesus, the Greek translation of the Hebrew name for Joshua (which is English). Josephus mentions 19 of them! Some of them were quite scandalous!

A Surfeit of Jesuses!