Pope Francis compared ISIS to Jesus sending his disciples to all nations "the same idea of conquest"

a reply to: RockofTruth

Christians aren't supposed to bow to anyone but God, let alone kiss a heathen's feet!

Because Christians are members of an army - and life is nothing but a war?

Humility - and love. Compassion...

I must have misunderstood the message - I didn't realize that to be a Christian means to take no prisoners

a reply to: reldra

I totally agree with RockofTruth's post. And yes, I starred it. Nothing in Islam is even within a million miles of the gospel. If you think it is, if you think killing all kafirs is right, if you really believe that and so does the Pope, well God help you in your final moments defending that.

I'll step out of this thread now, just had to add my 2 cents and if I stayed on the thread I'd probably be banned.

STM

Jesus told his disciples to preach that the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand, but he did not say to kill anyone:

Matthew 10:7-8 King James Version (KJV)

7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: 2012newstart

Do you want the Pope to condemn St Augistine's, A.D. 354-430, "The Just War Doctrine"?

"But, say they, the wise man will wage just wars. As if he would not all the rather lament the necessity of just wars, if he remembers that he is a man; for if they were not just he would not wage them, and would therefore be delivered from all wars."

"They who have waged war in obedience to the divine command, or in conformity with His laws, have represented in their persons the public justice or the wisdom of government, and in this capacity have put to death wicked men; such persons have by no means violated the commandment, "Thou shalt not kill."

Or Thomas Aquinas?

First, just war must be waged by a properly instituted authority such as the state. (Proper Authority is first: represents the common good: which is peace for the sake of man's true end—God.) Second, war must occur for a good and just purpose rather than for self-gain (for example, "in the nation's interest" is not just) or as an exercise of power. (Just Cause: for the sake of restoring some good that has been denied. i.e., lost territory, lost goods, punishment for an evil perpetrated by a government, army, or even the civilian populace.) Third, peace must be a central motive even in the midst of violence.[15] (Right Intention: an authority must fight for the just reasons it has expressly claimed for declaring war in the first place. Soldiers must also fight for this intention.)

SOURCE

How about Pope Alexander VI 's Papal Bull, of 1493, "Discovery Doctrine", and the Catholic "Age of Discovery?"

The Bull stated that any land not inhabited by Christians was available to be “discovered,” claimed, and exploited by Christian rulers and declared that “the Catholic faith and the Christian religion be exalted and be everywhere increased and spread, that the health of souls be cared for and that barbarous nations be overthrown and brought to the faith itself.”
www.gilderlehrman.org...

Francis didn't talk about the just war doctrine. Francis compared Jesus to ISIS. If it wasn't the word "ISIS", if he concentrated only on philosophical comparison between the religions, it could go without such boom. But he didn't. it is not a slipped word. A person like Francis knows what he says. He is not a blogger who can write late evening under influence of some kind. He is a pope, still.

The most conservative catholic websites that usually criticize every next word of Francis, are mum about al that. Because if they comment they have to take position, and their position could be only one.

Vatican and RCC would do better to move quickly without any other losses to damage control mode. If Francis has to step down let he do it with dignity. He already did much enough for the RCC. Now is the time to think whether there will be RCC after the 79 year old pontiff ultimately ceases to be in the papal office, one way or another.

I can't imagine even 1 million catholics to think in the terms Francis just set before the entire world. Coupled with the idea to breed with immigrants because of the low b rth rate in Europe. Not even 100,000 catholics would think in such terms. Will there be 10,000 catholics who think what Francis said is the correct way after 2000 years following Jesus' Gospel?

The next pope will have uneasy task to save what could still be saved from the Catholic Church.

Or, we are not going to save it but to chastise it, in terms of Malachi and Fatima prophecy. End times or not the final End times, Chastisement is what is being prophesied by all contemporary and old prophecies. Perhaps what Francis just said only will bring it sooner and bigger. But, do we really want that? Do we want see ruined the institution that formed not only the inquisition, but also the cultural heritage of Europe? Heritage that Francis just denied, as he denied the mission of Jesus.

Don't be deluded for lack of coverage in MSM. If they do, it means the fire to become inferno. Francis is still enjoying the benevolence of MSM and even of conservative catholics to certain degree. That will come to an end, when they will have to choose between Jesus and Francis. Because no one wants to choose voluntarily and publicly the side of the anti-Jesus. Not even those who would ultimately make its way. Not yet.

After all that, it is clear Francis could not remain as pope without being labelled"the last pope, probably anti-christ or at best his precursor". Be it said loudly publicly, as some influential private news outlets already trump that, or be it thought silently in the souls of devote catholics (and non catholics) who are nowhere near to exchange Jesus' mandate with the blurbs of the roman "pontiff" of equaling the enemy with the Lord.

It is a time, after 3 years papacy, to start thinking what's next after Francis. What if he is not the last pope of Malachi.

If I have to vote, and I have not, I would search for a holy priest or bishop within the lands that have most of catholics in the world, and have less secularization. Not within the developed world, nor within the countries where the catholic faith is still a minority. The obvious choice would be Latin America again. Preferably the biggest catholic country Brazil, although other options are possible. I would strongly favor a pope who is NOT a current cardinal. Be he a holy bishop (as bishops in Amazon for example) or be he just a priest or deacon.

St pope John the First, martyr, was a deacon when elected pope.

It is a time to say the things as they are, as they were originally meant to be. Peter didn't receive mandate of Jesus in order to install Rome's system as we know it from centuries. Peter's mandate was to spread the Gospel among the gentiles (that Francis just denied!) up until his shedding of blood on the cross, after the example of Jesus his Master. Moreover, Rome was not the only place selected by Jesus. Actually, Jesus gave his mandate to go to the entire world, not to go just to Rome. The next successor of Peter may opt to change the location of the See if he deems it necessary. As Peter himself changed Jerusalem with Antioch, and then changed Antioch with Rome. Things that should be considered ASAP without any further greater loss for Christianity, by those who are still sane on their positions.


"Go to the entire World and preach the Gospel" - the Universal mandate of Jesus, is the only reason for the existence of a pope and of a Church that spreads to the ends of time. If it were not those words of Jesus, there would be no need to increase the number of the first followers, because they were already saved. There would be no need of the countless martyrs after them. There would be no need of bishops of pagan Rome, that in time turned to be called popes of Christian Rome. You could still live under the pagan emperor who was also called "pontiff" between the people and the pagan gods.

The position of Francis denies his role as pope. There is no reason to have pope, or to have Francis as pope, if what he said was correct even a bit. He may freely go back to Argentine in any monastery to spend the rest of his life, or to eat pizza unnoticed on the streets if he prefers so.

The problem of the Christianity is not Francis who would be gone anyway after a few years. The problem of Christianity is how to continue ina multi-billion world with many unresolved questions within its own millions. Divorce and gays were not the most accute problems, since they existed since the time immemorial. Francis chose wrong making them the most important question of his pontificate, thus draining all spiritual force of the Church in two absurd Synods. Then, why didn't just stop there, not going into ISIS issue?

Benedict, months before resigning, said ina controversial book that there weren't Bethlehem star and Angels at the birth of Jesus, that was a fable. (if I remember it). That the caroling during the ages were invented by the men afterwards. I don't say he resigned for that, but it was a sign something was going very wrong with the pope, at the time when the rest of the world expected Dec 21 2012 doomsday.

Francis went much farther than to deny the Bethlehem star. He didn't dicuss the nature of Angels. He attacked Jesus comparing His teaching of Mercy and Salvation to the most cruel entity of our days. Without saying a word of the trespasses of the Church's own ranks in the centuries. Which side did Francis serve then?

I don't want a year from now to write posts against the antichrist int he Vatican. Or not to write them fearing from Inquisitors, in a mode of the latest Star Wars TV Saga. I want if we all have more time given by God and do not reach the end of days, to have happier years than the last 25 years lost in absurd post-communist reality. Was it all about that? Then let roll back the time if possible.

Francis must go, now! Or, I will stand behind those who declare we are in the end times with an acting false prophet in the Vatican, although he might not be the one who will Mark everyone with the sign of perdition.

Maranatha! Come Lord Jesus!

a reply to: reldra

Oh really? It isn't scholarly to compare apples and oranges. That's not very fruitful. lol
No, it isn't possible to interpret Muhammad as akin to Jesus because any religious scholar already knows that scholars say that Muhammad is more like Mary in that they think he was 'pure' but basically, he's just a false prophet so...yeah the pope is wrong. On all counts. So there. Go back to school

Maybe the pope should, too.

I mean no harm to the person Jorge Bergoglio who is a valid bishop. I liked him on many occasions and that could be found in my previous threads. He has many qualities that others don't. No surprise he was elevated archbishop and cardinal of Buenos Aires, and lastly, a pope.

However, he must understand he did it wrong. Even the pope can sin. He may correct himself.

To appease the enemy in a moment like that, and to cancel Jesus' unique mission mandate with one paragraph, is not the best position for a pope of any age. Even less when we speak of the last pope possibly. (not proven yet). After such wording, it is meaningless he to continue teaching the billions what is sin and what is not.


It is rather an absurd, to compare our age with the age of Gregory the Great and invaders of Europe like Attila the Hun. The nations from the East who inherited the Roman empire, didn't necessarily mingle with the previous nations, rather they established their own kingdoms and culture. We are no more at that age, though. Or shall we see African and Afghanistan mini states in Europe then? Because they flew from war and hunger? The question is obviously too complex. Its resolution cannot be found with simple advises as those of the pope.

It is a time padre Jorge as he wanted to be called in Buenos Aires, to retire, after 3 uneasy years. To go on the streets unnoticed and to enjoy God's given life as everyone of us. Or to spend it in prayerful seclusion.
Wish him al the best! But he must go, and now. Not after we get accustomed to the idea Jesus said something else.

Or...may be he is willing to open the banned Gospels about the wife of Jesus? It wouldn't strike the Christianity more than to deny his mandate and mission of his disciples. Because a married Jesus would have done exactly what Jesus of the Gospel did. Why didn't all those holy persons talk of what was most necessary today, what was postponed for millenia to be revealed to the masses? And instead they tell us fables that even a child will understand they are wrong?

Good bye, Bergoglio, if he wants to leave in peace, now is the time! He finished his own mandate given by Jesus! If anything else, his own words made it finished by denouncing all mandates given by Jesus and comparing them with ISIS activities. Let we have a graceful stepping down, as we saw Benedict doing for much lesser errors if any.

In contrast to pope Bergoglio -Francis, the Russian patriarch Kirill declares worldwide ‘holy war’ on terrorism

The head of the Russian Orthodox Church has called the fight against terrorism a “holy war” and urged international unity and an abandoning of double standards to defeat this global evil. “Today, when our warriors take part in combat operations in the Middle East, we know that this is not an aggression, occupation or an attempt to impose some ideology on other people, this has nothing to do with supporting certain governments,”

www.rt.com...

As I said before, the problem with immigration from war-torn regions is a complex one. It requires much more effort of political, economic elites as well as religious, to attempt alleviate the dare situation Europe is facing. No breeding programs are needed at the moment. The Catholic church in some instances has taken double standard, by helping those immigrants in need, but forgetting its own fellow members who in many countries suffer unemployment in millions, among other woes.

Perhaps the pope meant well, but he did it in the worst possible way by trying to exchange the basic message of the Gospel. I doubt apology will suffice to repair the spiritual damage, as already explained.

We all need a new start in a world with many times more population than during Gregory the Great when the Roman empire cllapsed on its own structure. If today's world is about to follow it, it would be a disaster. Moreover, some of those states sponsors of immigrants (and terrorism) are nuclear armed, officially or non officially.

It is a time to reveal not only one or two secrets, but all secrets that concern the embattled humanity. It is absurd we hear how John Paul II spoke in Fulda about the Fatima secret. What is waited more? Aliens?

If the pope goes on and on with his next interview and scandalous wording, the picture will be only grimmer. Perhaps this will be the last page of the Roman church as well. As we see, there are other Churches established by the same universal mandate of Jesus Christ before His Ascension in a cloud, in the presence of men in white not from this planet (angels). Perhaps it is not meant for Rome to continue in history? I don't know. Only reason what is logical consequence to the absurd we witness from everywhere, lastly from the pope himself. After all, he himself said that ISIS is comparable to Jesus' teaching in idea and conquest. Quite much for a pope in the last number of Malachi. It is no surprise he is called whatever he is called online by people who apparently are not paid in their multitudes by the ...whoever black op.

I think Pope Sicnarf has severe dementia and needs help.

furthermore, the political decisions of Merkel and others are not accepted unequivocally in Europe. Too many, may be majority of population, are those who do not support that policy. The riots are common in Germany, while in France the problems of unemployment eclipse the problems of terrorists among the migrant ghettos. Traditionally catholic countries like Poland, Hungary and others openly reject the idea of redistribution of migrant flows throughout the Europe. After all, if Germany invited them let Germany feed them. If Italy let them go to islands, people from Africa with unknown background (all of them running away from Boco Haram???) then let Italy deal with the consequences.

Whatever the final outcome, Europe is deeply divided by countries and inside the societies about how to deal with the ever increased flow of migrants from the entire Africa and Asia, not only from Syria. People without families in many cases. Young men, to be precise. Fture warriors. What guarantees they won't turn into real warriors once they settle down?

Rising of far right parties in France and Germany show that will likely reflect the political spectrum in not so far future.

The roots are deeper and should be sought inside the countries of origin of all those migrants, not in the conscience of the Christians to adopt a different view on the well known texts of the Gospel. And that is the biggest failure of this pope so far. It is good he spends money to help the needy ones. Although he himself warned of terrorists among them. It is not good when in the name of that, he is ready to exchange basic principles and teaching of Jesus himself. Because what will remain after 10 years will be a spiritual disaster or worse.

Fill in population gap of ageing Europe? Aren't there enough children without parents even today in Europe, to seek more? What does it mean less children, what is the norm? Pope himself said, do not multiply like rabbits. The current young generation cannot find way in life, cannot find employment, and as result, do not make new families. It is logical step. One should not ban everything as sin, and then be surprised that the youngsters won't approve his policy. As happened in Ireland. Because that policy is already failed. Because the Church does not give a better future to the young generation. No one will live with empty promises, as our grandfathers probably did. Not even promises for after life, if the current policy of the biggest Church so miserably fails "on the ground". Perhaps, it is wrong also for the afterlife, then? - would say many young people who seek the truth.

On the other side, never ever in history did the European continent have so large population. Europe cannot feed its own countries, what to say to feed Africa. If food is needed, let the pope turn attention to the available 3D printers for food to be paid and built in the starving nations, so the people may stay in Africa where they are born. I almost believed that after his remarkable Climate encyclical, Francis will continue in that way, promoting technologies that are already achieved and working, to alleviate hunger and illness, energy needs etc. Not to change the Gospel for that purpose!

I vividly remember the humiliating situation in Greece a year ago when Merkel and other Western institutions put on kneels the nation that is a founder nation of the European civilization and democracy. Including of a major part of Christian theology (all New Testament except for Matthew is written in Greek). Where were the voices of helping the poor and needy Greeks then? Why should it be that newcomers from Afghanistan, crossing thru mountains and seas ORGANIZED by someone behind screen, would be welcome, while at the same time the original population of Europe will be abandoned to its own fate? Let remember also Greek nation (along with Roman) precede most of the other European nations that formed much later n that territory.

It is a double standard and shame for those who make it happen, or allow it happen. Pope lines up behind those who engineered the virtual collapse of the prosperous European space in the years following the Communism. Where are all promises said back then to Gorbachev and others, in order to bring down the era of the Cold War? There weren't immigrants, not in today's numbers, back then.

I cannot reason any deeper. But what witness today by Francis, is not up to his hi duty as leader of worldwide catholicism and nearly half of all Christianity. More was expected by Bergoglio when elected on that night on St Peter's square. We don't have another decade to wait what he might end up with. We don't have 2 or more lives on this planet to just experiment the next failed scenario.

In Year 2000 no one spoke of a crisis of debt, everyone spoke how good the European common space would be. I could say stronger words, but it is clear for those who understand.

sorry for my outburst of posts, but I will say it, because that may be my last chance before the rising of antichrist to power and showing his face.

If we are living ina 7+ billion wide planet, growing exponentially, why the need of more breeding? Countries like India get 10 children each. Indians still do not migrate en masse. It may change though. Pakistani are enough. Nigeria is going to eclipse both India and China in several decades, followed by other Central African nations.

Europe
"The population within the standard physical geographical boundaries was 740 million in 2010 according to the United Nations.[1] In 2010 the population was 711 million,[citation needed] using the definition that Europe's boundaries are on the continental divides of the Caucasus and Ural mountains and the Bosporous, including the populated parts of countries of Russia and of Turkey." en.wikipedia.org...

Googe gives the number 742.5 million of 2013. For the EU alone, 508 million inhabitants, 2015 en.wikipedia.org...

That is, the European parts of countries within the European continent but outside the EU, including Russia and Turkey, is somewhere 230+ mln

Are those numbers not enough for a pope who is known not to favor baby boom? Indeed the population ages. So what? In a world that finds it hard to feed 7 bln people, or even 500 mln people in the EU alone, it is not quite comprehensible how someone would want it becoming even more, and that someone would command his army of 1 bln catholics to breed more. While saying, don't breed like animals at the same time. Double standard or double meaning words.

How about some words of condoms to be mass used in Africa and other countries among catholic couples? Condoms do not make abortion, at least. But it was not "moral" said John Paul II, it was the same tree only a different fruit...I wonder what is moral for a Church that has its priesthood almost entire history without women, then? Let say the things straight: are most of catholic priests gay, are they chosen among the gay born males? And nuns among lesbian -born females? If it is so, let redefine what Jesus and John did. Not redefining marriage, but redefining what we call sin. And why it would be sin for the masses, but it won't be sin for the clergy.

If we are going back to the food issue of those billions, still the earth can support them. But if they grow to 10 bln or 15 bln perhaps the earth couldn't support them. They are enough for several planets like earth to be populated. Does itmean the discovery of exo planets has that goal too? Why not we are told openly, look, the scientists search for your next home, be ready to resettle in 10 years or so.

But then the pope should acknowledge a couple of things about the creation too. Should accept that there are many wolds out there, some inhabited. Should accept the angels are...ET. That they have visited us, during Jesus' mission and probably afterwards too. Isn't it better the pope to delve into those existential questions of spiritual and scientific matter, instead to make himself leading politician and sex-adviser?

Unless he is after other goals. And that is the main problem, in this latest papal buzz: is there a hidden agenda behind his polite words to accept the stranger, and re-interpretation of the Gospel that would sound almost as good to Muslims as to Christians? Because the Muslims accept Christ to the extend their prophet did. The problem is, they follow their prophet, and we follow ours. Their prophet calls for conquest, ours - not. Or he did after all, according to the latest interpretation of Francis.

Instead, isn't it better to seek what Jesus did in all those hidden years and we are still not told of? A wife, it surfaces from a dozen of books. How about the angels who helped them, where are their wings? Benedict already said, no wings.

So...we are practically told the truth. But what is the price we are required to pay to know that truth? One world system or what?

Isn't it better to give free tickets to all migrants to another planet? Perhaps we all have to become migrants in order to avoid the nightmare prepared by cunning deceit for millenia. The more we are not told the truth, the more I think that is much wider in scope than all theories could ever say. And seems Francis plays the script quite well. His stumbling block-Jesus, was apparently premeditated to get the expected outcry. Because it was not possible not to get it, at least by some if not by majority of Catholics and Christians. Because we are not as fervent as the Muslims are to their own teaching.

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: 2012newstart

The Pope is a scholar. He is speaking in a scholarly way. He does not really think the disciples are like ISIS. Go back to school.

Don't be silly, you go back to school, do you think everyone listening to his words will understand whatever you believe you understand from it? the message will go through exactly like this and not to be understand in any other way. People will go in a different direction as they always do, 2000 years and people are still as brain dead as back then, nothing changes.

originally posted by: RockofTruth
Exactly! The pope is evil to the core. He's not a Christian. The man went and kissed the feet of Muslims!!! Christians aren't supposed to bow to anyone but God, let alone kiss a heathen's feet!

Oh, wow, I somehow missed that story! Why am I not surprised?? Do you have a link for that one? Would be interested in reading about it, thanks.

originally posted by: awareness10
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

The false prophet/profit comes to mind

Yahtzee!

Exactly what I have been thinking about him for a long time now!

You are not alone in that. Francis seems to have false prophet potential all over him.

Wow... that's just wow.

I don't even know if dementia or schizophrenia explains what the Pope said...

Pope Francis compared ISIS to Jesus sending his disciples to all nations "the same idea of conquest"

Really your 'holiness' ?

REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY ?

Tell me more how Mathew,Mark,Luke, John, etc went around raping women,cutting kids in half, and shooting anyone that didn't believe them.

a reply to: neo96

You forgot locking coreligionists in cages and setting them on fire.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Wow... that's just wow. I don't even know if dementia or schizophrenia explains what the Pope said...

It doesn't - but it might explain why you can't understand what he's saying

For a lot of people in this thread it was obvious

Wait - what do you think he's saying?

:-)