Scientology: The bridge to spiritual freedom.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I never got shocks from an e-meter.

There were no wrong answers either in the rundowns I did.

The e-meter simply registered 'charge' on an incident that came up during the course of a session and that would be the incident that was dealt with until there was a 'floating needle' indicating that it had been successfully handled. ie it wasn't bothering me any more.

No negative reinforcements or punishment.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Its powerful, delivers tiny shocks to ones body if your answer is wrong (heavy interview questioning; you have a huge file they have compiled before this happens); its a form of negative reinforcement; or brainwashing.

Negative reinforcement is the withholding of reward, it is not the application of punishment. The application of punishment is...punishment.
bcotb.com...
For future reference if you want to go all psycologically.

Yes; this organization takes ones money (that is one punishment factor) the other is that they are 'cleared' of past foibles; bad energy/thought forms, and they have no idea they are being fleeced. This is why they love the celebrity clients (deep pockets) convinced this is a better form of a 'Woody Allen' type daily visit to a real licensed psychoanalyst.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Be that as it may,
You can now, in the future, use the proper terminology when talking about behavior modification.

You're welcome.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Its powerful, delivers tiny shocks to ones body if your answer is wrong (heavy interview questioning; you have a huge file they have compiled before this happens); its a form of negative reinforcement; or brainwashing.

Negative reinforcement is the withholding of reward, it is not the application of punishment. The application of punishment is...punishment.
bcotb.com...
For future reference if you want to go all psycologically.

Yes; I read your post. I was thinking more along the lines of Pavlov's Dog excess saliva training.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

That wasn't exactly the same thing as behavior modification. Those were experiments in conditioned response.
The dogs were not rewarded (or punished) for salivating.

a reply to: Thetan
I am going to disagree with the crowd and say Scientology is the way to true Freedom! and I'll tell you all about it for only $40.



a reply to: 5StarOracle

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: vethumanbeing

That wasn't exactly the same thing as behavior modification. Those were experiments in conditioned response.
The dogs were not rewarded (or punished) for salivating.

Behavior modification (using Scientology methods) is this result in the positive: The more money I give to this totally false made up belief system, the BETTER I FEEL. Its brilliant.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

The more money I give to this totally false made up belief system, the BETTER I FEEL. Its brilliant.

Yes, positive reinforcement. As would be shocking you if you do not "contribute."

Positive reinforcement: application of stimulus (nice or bad) after the demonstration of a behavior.
Negative reinforcement: withdrawal of stimulus (nice or bad) after the demonstration of a behavior.

So, either or both behavior modification techniques could be employed by the "church" (and most probably are, but that's not really different from any "religion').

But again, the example you gave is one of positive, not negative reinforcement.

originally posted by: berenike
a reply to: vethumanbeing
I never got shocks from an e-meter.There were no wrong answers either in the rundowns I did. The e-meter simply registered 'charge' on an incident that came up during the course of a session and that would be the incident that was dealt with until there was a 'floating needle' indicating that it had been successfully handled. ie it wasn't bothering me any more.
No negative reinforcements or punishment.

In 1991 it cost one person 179.00 dollars to get the pre-interview appointment that entailed handing over financial statements, employer information and yearly income during this interview. How much money have you given to Scientology? Cults charge for the privilege of being a member.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I believe somewhere on ATS a member of Scientology that left the cult claimed the first level of testing cost 1500 or 1800 USD...
I'm guessing at the amount just know it was rather substantial and was compared in substance to a coloring book...
And I have also heard it would cost over 300k to get "clear"....
And even than there are many more levels of advancement at much greater costs...

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: vethumanbeing

I believe somewhere on ATS a member of Scientology that left the cult claimed the first level of testing cost 1500 or 1800 USD...
I'm guessing at the amount just know it was rather substantial and was compared in substance to a coloring book...
And I have also heard it would cost over 300k to get "clear"....
And even than there are many more levels of advancement at much greater costs...

I believe that; its expensive to belong to this "CHURCH" and these are just the first month cash thrown as volley returns to the diabolical practice of getting your bank account numbers. To get clear? at least 300k. The next level of advancement as you say costs depending upon what you will be told is a super secret 'enlightenment' (the unwashed are not privileged to know). These run from 1000 to 10,000 dollars; that Aliens live in volcanoes and control the human race is a highly sought HIDDEN revelation and is worth 10,000 dollars. As I said before; they scramble to make up new revelations or new levels to reach to charge for.

a reply to: Phage
I think he is hung up on the colloquial use of the term 'positive' meaning 'good', when in psychological circles it simply means 'substantive'.

a reply to: SargonThrall
It is a common misconception.
And an learning opportunity.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

The point of my post was to explain how the e-meter is used. I thought it might be useful since I had actual experience with one. There seems to be quite a lot of misconceptions about them and it doesn't hurt to try and provide people with more accurate information. They are NOT used in the way you suggested.

I'm all for exposing what is wrong with Scientology but it helps to get the facts straight. I own an e-meter and I'm not going to play around with a device that administers shocks.

As to how much money I gave them - I got ripped off big time. I paid thousands for Intensives, sessions on an e-meter, which the Org failed to provide. I didn't get even half my money's worth. I've complained about that on ATS before. Most recently in Thetan's previous thread. I don't defend Scientology's unscrupulous money-grubbing tactics. And I'd never advise anyone to have anything to do with them.

For those who think auditing will help them, and it helped me a lot, * I'd suggest contacting the Freezone.


*It would have helped a lot more if it had been done correctly and I'd been provided with what I paid for. And if I hadn't been subjected to a lot of dirty tactics when I complained.

a reply to: berenike
Fair enough. I would not commit unless shown this device. Perhaps my fear lead me to think I was experiencing an very unpleasant sensation subtle energy (but then I am sensitive). No money exchanged; they were desperate to gain my membership and happy to hit the street.

a reply to: Thetan
The sheer amount of misinformation, disinformation and bigotry in most of these replies, quite frankly, is astounding.

a reply to: Thetan

It would be more astounding if you fail to respond to specific examples of misinformation, disinformation and bigotry.

Here is your chance to put the record straight - go for it.

Sitting with the TV on late one night last weekend and I looked up just as some weird looking advert came on. I had the sound down so didn't know what it was for, but at the end up popped the Scientology URL.

First time I have seen an Ad for them on British TV. Maybe they are having a rough patch fleecing Hollywood celebs and need to widen their search for new members of the Pyramid fleecing machine.

originally posted by: Thetan
I only ask that you reserve judgment until you have watched the whole thing.

Request denied.

I already know enough about this gross cult and the damage it does to people through years of following those who have fled from its clutches and I don't need any propaganda video by the cult to enlighten me any further.

The cult of $cientology is a sickening, disgusting, dangerous organization which every government on this Earth should deem criminal.
It abuses, it harasses, it assaults, and many believe it even murders (evidence seems to suggest it does), to get what it wants - more money and power.

Most of those who join this cult are mentally ill, or soon become mentally ill as a result of their involvement.

I implore you to run as far away from these sociopaths as possible.

originally posted by: Thetan
a reply to: Thetan
The sheer amount of misinformation, disinformation and bigotry in most of these replies, quite frankly, is astounding.

So you'd rather just ignore all the evidence about your cult and believe what the cult tells you, even though there is a massive amount of information out there for you to see for yourself and verify?

Sadly, if you're unwilling to face the truth and see this organization for what it actually is then I think we've already lost you to it. You're clearly not capable of rational thought if you would rather reject reality for a fantasy.

I have to say though, I look forward to seeing how your involvement here develops in the future. Although sad to watch, it would be fascinating to see someone spiralling down into this cult first hand.