Scientology: The bridge to spiritual freedom.

originally posted by: berenike
a reply to: vethumanbeing

I never got shocks from an e-meter.

There were no wrong answers either in the rundowns I did.

The e-meter simply registered 'charge' on an incident that came up during the course of a session and that would be the incident that was dealt with until there was a 'floating needle' indicating that it had been successfully handled. ie it wasn't bothering me any more.

No negative reinforcements or punishment.

Have you asked to see your file? You know, the one they build on every victim in order to use their secrets, their shame, their private embarrassments for blackmail?

It's no coincidence that celebs have been ensnared by the cult and do as little as possible for it when they feel they need to - it knows all their dirty little secrets thanks to endless hours of recorded e-meter sessions.

No no no we lost a ATS member to one of the worst cults in the world pray for him/her and hope Thethan becomes free from their brainwashing!

"Truth shall set u free what will a lie do"

a reply to: Rocker2013

No, I never asked to see my file. The only file I was aware of was the one compiled by my auditor during sessions and I pretty much knew what was in that because I'd provided the information.

I do know that, in that particular Org, files on members were chaotically stored. I walked past an open cupboard one day and many, many files were haphazardly chucked in there, available to anyone to look at. Although not just anyone would be able to make head or tail of auditors' notes it was still bad practice, imo.

What information Scientology holds on the rich & famous and how or if it uses that information against them, I don't know.

I was never important enough for anyone to pursue me after I left although I met a couple of others who'd been put under some sort of surveillance. I can't remember enough details to say any more on that.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: vethumanbeing

I believe somewhere on ATS a member of Scientology that left the cult claimed the first level of testing cost 1500 or 1800 USD...
I'm guessing at the amount just know it was rather substantial and was compared in substance to a coloring book...
And I have also heard it would cost over 300k to get "clear"....
And even than there are many more levels of advancement at much greater costs...

I have a thread about my experience with Scientology. I posted to ats years ago. I can go back and try and find it. I think you may referring to that. I can also say that I was introduced to it by a celebrity friend that has now since been very out about the fact that she has LEFT Scientology.

Found it: Not trying to derail a thread. But seeing as I have experience in these matters, Id love to talk to thetan if they ever return. www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: berenike
a reply to: Thetan

It would be more astounding if you fail to respond to specific examples of misinformation, disinformation and bigotry.

Here is your chance to put the record straight - go for it.

Hi berenike. That would be a truly silly undertaking, the moment I take it upon myself to correct everybody's lies and misunderstandings is the moment I become a slave to a highly aberated infinite procession wherein I correct people and they respond with more false information. After all, if they were actually interested in exploring the subject objectively they would have(as part of their exploration of the matter) gone to a direct source such as a church or the official scientology website and scrutinized those direct sources very carefully.If they scrutinized those direct sources carefully they would know that the information they post is false. When I talk about Scientology on this site it will always be accurate information. I've got to say the gold goes to the poster who said E meters give electric shocks if you answer "wrong", (I don't even know what they mean by "wrong,")that is absolutely hilarious and if anyone believes that they need to seriously re-evaluate their investigatory skills.

Couple things:

originally posted by: Metallicus
Finally a religion that is worse than Christianity, Islam and Judaism combined. I feel like this could be the unifying force that we need here on ATS.

Hilarious! Best line ever. Didn't the Pastafarians just get rejected in their bid for it to become a religion?

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
"... The one super-secret sentence that Scientology is built on is: 'Do as thou wilt. That is the whole of the law.'

That is two sentences.

I believe what you're looking for is "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." This is from Liber al vel Legis or "the Book of the Law" which Crowley penned, allegedly at dictation from an entity.

It also comes from the black magic, from Aleister Crowley.

The occult merely means "things hidden." It is not de-facto black magick. The interpretation of archetypes and godforms, of human consciousness and our role in the larger universe, causes a fairly fundamental level of misunderstanding in these areas with those outside the paradigms. Crowley was not of the Left Hand Path, as he referred to it, which by occult measure would mean the various things you ascribed to it in some of your text. And his mother, a christian fundamentalist loon, called him "the beast" most of his life even as a small child when he committed any act she considered wrong, and as an adult, he made it his own, which wove in fine with his philophies -- not about "being the devil." (Well more figuratively if so. He was The Fool in tarot, not The Devil, for example.)

Crowley seems to have been kind of a lunatic, although his severe asthma and medical prescription of opium for it in those days didn't help, and his childhood (offset only by a pretty quality education) didn't help either. He held mountain climbing records for decades, this before the days of the kind of gear we have now. He was a natural mystic which never helps anybody be more normal (even 'sane' shamen are at best 'odd'), and he was fairly young during much of the period he made the most reputation. But he was also extremely intelligent and often very insightful, not the polarized disney villain some people make him out as.

It means that you are a law unto yourself, that you are above the law, that you create your own law. You are above any other human considerations."

Clearly this is not a philosophy you are familiar with. That is not really what it means unless we restructure the meaning of "you" ("thou") to a totally shallow (and utterly Atheist to the divine, which AC was not) level of self-definition.

Hubbard has plenty of things we can throw at him like darts, as does Crowley. It is not really necessary to leverage Crowley into being the reason Hubbard spawns... doubt. He does pretty well at that all on his own. :-)

RC

a reply to: Thetan

I responded to the member who thought e-meters gave electric shocks and s/he accepted my explanation very graciously.

I don't think it's silly to correct misunderstandings - it's the best way to teach people.

If you leave any erroneous information here unaddressed people may well accept it as the truth. How are they to differentiate between fact and fiction if the Scientologist in this thread won't engage with them?

It's a mistake, imo, to assume that people will just respond with more false information.

As for going to a direct source, not everyone has the time or the inclination to wade through Scientology's vast body of work without some guidance. So a web search is not an option. And actually going into an Org is definitely not an option for some due to Scientology's dreadful reputation.

That reputation won't improve unless individual Scientologists make a bit of an effort to put people straight rather than laughing at their (perceived) lack of investigatory skills. Just as a start...

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
Although people can say they didn't actually interact with each other they did know of each other...
And Mr Crowley was a definite influence on Ron...

"... Also I've got to complete this by saying that he thought of himself as the Beast 666 Incarnate." Interviewer: "The devil?" Ron "Yes. Aleister Crowley thought of himself as such. And when Crowley died in 1947 my father then decided that he should wear the cloak of the beast; and become the most powerful being in the universe.
"Scientology is black magic that is spread out over a long time period. To perform black magic generally takes a few hours or at most; a few weeks. But in Scientology it is stretched out over a lifetime and so you don't see it. Black magic is the inner core of Scientology - and it is probably the only part of Scientology that really works.
"Also you've got to realize that my father did not worship Satan. He thought he was Satan. He was one with Satan. He had a direct pipeline of communication and power with him. My father wouldn't have worshipped anything, I mean. When you think you're the most powerful being in the universe, you have no respect for anything let alone worship.
"... The one super-secret sentence that Scientology is built on is: 'Do as thou wilt. That is the whole of the law.' It also comes from the black magic, from Aleister Crowley. It means that you are a law unto yourself, that you are above the law, that you create your own law. You are above any other human considerations."
www.bible.ca...

I don't know what the source for that quote is because your source is down. I find it dubious because Crowley famously hated black magic, and the "do what thou wilt" is the incorrect reading of it again. It's supposed to be do anything you want as long as it's guided by love.

I actually don't like Crowley and detest Scientology but that quote seemed to be inaccurate fear mongering to me.

originally posted by: WhateverYouSay
I actually don't like Crowley and detest Scientology but that quote seemed to be inaccurate fear mongering to me.

This quote can be attributed to various sources, but it's believed to come originally from the Pagan faith:

"If it harms none, do what thou wilt".

This phrase is still used to this day throughout the Pagan faiths and it's pretty much the only statement any Pagan organization recognizes as a general rule.

"Do as thou wilt. That is the whole of the law" is generally used in modern Satanic faith, which has a more nihilistic or at least anarchist sentiment behind it.

Clearly the two are different, the former accepts responsibility for ones actions as part of a community, while the latter is pretty much entirely lacking in Humanity.

Either way, it's true to say that the source would be correct in attributing the sentiment of the saying to Crowley. He was a Satanist. Even if there is no connection to the cult of $cientology, and even if Crowley never coined the saying himself, it's absolutely something he would have said, or something in line with his religious views.

OP, there are things in the world that we find and try and they work for us, or resonate with some kind of truth for us.

It took me many decades to learn these things are usually fundamental dynamics of some kind, a Truth you might say, sometimes merely about how human beings experience or operate.

And these little pieces can be "woven into" any number of other things that other people expect them to be part of because they already believe in the other thing; or things they simply want to synthesize; or things they simply want to sell. Usually the whole spectrum happens.

Long ago, statistics was part of the occult. If you could do even the simplest sort of prediction, often about astronomy or the weather, you could convince people that god was talking to you with prophecy, and maybe they would admire you. Then again, maybe they'd go flashmob and burn you at the stake. But the truth underlying that was a fairly simple (at that level) process we now call evaluating the stats for forecasting. This small process could be part of 10 different religious persuasions once upon a time; it can be part of any business at all now. It was one truth. Lots of sources can pull that under their umbrella. And in doing so, they may try to sell you the umbrella -- based on your experience of that Truth.

In psychoneuroimmunology focii (there are many approaches) it is not uncommon that humans seem to have tiny blockages within the nervous system. The Eastern medical arts have whole categories of study about these, most ending with acupuncture, acupressure, or the more westernized reflexology. In the West we have quite a few ways to approach clearing this from the body, this one little (with a big impact) thing. For example, biofeedback can be used for some portions of it. Biogram Therapy can be used for some portions of it. There are a variety of jungian- and active-imagination- style meditation formats that can be used for some portions of it.

Actually even drinking more water (better lymph flow) and good exercise and sometimes dreams can deal with a decent portion of it -- this isn't woo at all in its nature, it's merely that there are psychological techniques which can be surprisingly effective.

Now this is difficult to measure without a very expensive setup -- it's merely a lack of affordable available measuring tools -- so I'm going to say this like it's obvious but most of it I'm sure would be better evaluated in a lab, but it's not like there's a marketable pharmaceutical drug involved to get much funding for such things. It seems to be so, so far, is what I can say.

In the case of the Biogram Therapy route, a person would focus on a part of their body and visualize energy dispersing. They might use various biofeedback tools (usually the simple sorts that can be worn such as galvanic skin response (epidermal)) and ask for their body to show response on the tool when energy relating to ___ is found ( ___ can be anything), and then verbally talk themselves through the body slowly, and when a reaction arrives, again visualizing the dispersal of energy in that area until going through the sequence with biofeedback has no response. I always liked that approach because it blended the wholly practical, with the BF tools, with the more nebulous psychological.

In the imaginal/jungian meditation route, basically a person we'll assume is already skilled at this process, asks their 'inner guide' (a psychological construct, at first anyway) to give them an archetype representing the energy of ___ which could be a subject, event, body part, anything including a combination of things. Then they "interact" with that -- and the arch, by the way, is not necessarily a person or creature or object though it can be and often is; much like they say dreams are entirely us, as they're entirely created of us, in this case the whole landscape of the meditation is part of the energy. Usually when the interaction has been successful, there is a body-feeling rather like a much deeper ASMR feeling, suggesting its success.

Now the interesting thing about the imaginal element is that you can make it, even by accident by sheer expectation, anything you want. If you are expecting, or if you are physiologically exposed in a room to, people who believe in a very "native" approach, you may find your archetypes are native americans with animal heads. Or you may find yourself in a "past life experience" piece where being a native is key to this. Other people, with other paradigms, meet people with 8 arms who put a crystal in their forehead... people having trouble accepting the exercise may meet, I am not kidding, cartoons. (It's funny, but if you interact, it works just as well.) And if you are in a model, or even near someone who is, where all your problems are caused by past lives you had a few billion years ago when you were an alien, you'll get that. And this is the only important part: THEY ALL WORK.

They work because there is an underlying Truth about how the human body operates. Focused attention of the mind can affect the nervous system (and more). The nervous system is an estimated 90,000 miles+ of highly sensitive threads that amount to the fiber-optic power of the human body in a way (an analogy only). There's a lot of stuff that can get in the way, by accident or by design, and it can usually use cleaning in one way or another.

So when someone sells you their umbrella and you try it out and experience something that works for you, then they may try to sell you on how that umbrella MUST be right, because you see what's true, you see what worked for you.

What I am saying is that this dynamic can work for you without any given paradigm, structure, religion, or belief system claiming it and trying to buy your loyalty (and future income) with it.

I've had several friends who were Scientologists in the 1970s, most of them knew and worked with Hubbard personally, and most of them left 'the church' in 1977 or so. They've been kind enough to show me several of their 'techniques' and in every case I have found that
(a) it is based on something useful you can find in several other forms,
(b) it usually comes packaged with at least three umbrellas, if I am not mixing metaphors too badly :-), and
(c) those paradigms (umbrellas) often have the dual purpose of both costing money (and leading to more money) and of enmeshing one further into the paradigm. It's quicksand. Elements are valid for reasons having nothing to do with the religion but draws you deeper into it.

Even many people closest to the core paradigms and Hubbard himself, left the organization, because even before Ron's death, another guy (whom he had brought in for publishing) had basically taken it over, and made what amounted to an occult paradigm of Hubbard's into the most terrifyingly successful genuine Cult of the modern world. They have militarized compounds all over and people who vanish for years and sometimes escape saying literally they were held prisoner. Sometimes the FBI thinks they can get a clue, they're not qualified, and these guys infest every intell organization in our country. This org is literally illegal in many countries and very sharply and harshly held and taxed and watched in others.

Link: Best Scientology Link

Real Truth is free. Or cost of a book, at worst.

RC

originally posted by: Thetan
a reply to: Thetan
The sheer amount of misinformation, disinformation and bigotry in most of these replies, quite frankly, is astounding.

link

please read this, it was all just about taxes

Involved parties Mary Sue Hubbard, Cindy Raymond, Gerald Bennett Wolfe, Henning Heldt, Duke Snider, Gregory Willardson, Richard Weigand, Mitchell Herman, Sharon Thomas, Jane Kember, and Mo Budlong, all high-ranking Scientologists, were convicted and sent to prison for five years. L. Ron Hubbard was named by federal prosecutors as an "unindicted co-conspirator" and went into hiding for the rest of his life.[8][14]

originally posted by: Thetan
a reply to: Thetan
The sheer amount of misinformation, disinformation and bigotry in most of these replies, quite frankly, is astounding.

You replied to yourself; what does that say about indoctrination methods; and possible confusion as to who you really are (if individuality remains intact).

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I think he was confusing his sock puppet accounts.

If only the ATS public rejected ALL religions as hard as they've rejected Scientology in this thread, the world would be a merrier place.

originally posted by: AshOnMyTomatoes
If only the ATS public rejected ALL religions as hard as they've rejected Scientology in this thread, the world would be a merrier place.

OP's statement could have been posted on either the RFT (Religion Faith Theology) or CiR (Conspiracies in Religion) for clarification. Its a religion yes? Suspect a dodge here; avoiding a total beat down of all premise by scholars participating.

So the question now is, how does ATS respond to being infiltrated by one of the biggest modern cults? I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time, but...

originally posted by: ColdWisdom
So the question now is, how does ATS respond to being infiltrated by one of the biggest modern cults? I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time, but...

Ask them for an $80,000 "donation" so they can make their first reply. Then they have to pay extra to star and flag. Then to make post they have to "donate" $2,000,000.

They should be used to it and I'm sure they'll get a tax relief.

a reply to: TerryDon79

If only it was that simple. The OP is obviously a planted shill. I am proud of all ATS members who came quickly to set the record straight with the facts about Scientology & its pathetic messiah.

But seriously. They're here now and what do we do?