Is this the end of the "special relationship" ?

originally posted by: SprocketUK
There is also the fact (completely ignored by the MSM) that the president of the USA will say and do what is best for the USA.

If the UK suffers but the USA gains an advantage (Through TTIP) he is still going to do what is best for his nation.

That is exactly why he holds this opinion. He really couldn't give a toss about the U.K, that's why he wants us to remain.

a reply to: SprocketUK

I think it's fascinating that so many people preach about freedom of opinion - but only when it suits their opinions.

As a Brit, I'm really getting fed up with the Brexit camp who seem to think that anything in opposition to their views is "propaganda" and "unfair". It seems they just really hate the notion of their British public being ACTUALLY INFORMED before making a decision that's going to be very important to our lives in the future.

How dare people have information available to them!?
How dare those with a different opinion actually express it!?
How dare anyone else who doesn't agree with me speak about their fears for the future!?

Like it or not, this is a REFERENDUM, you guys in the Out camp do not have a right to dictate who gets to give their opinion on it, or what information is given to the public to help them make their decision. You do not have a hegemony in this debate.

originally posted by: Rocker2013
a reply to: SprocketUK

I think it's fascinating that so many people preach about freedom of opinion - but only when it suits their opinions.

As a Brit, I'm really getting fed up with the Brexit camp who seem to think that anything in opposition to their views is "propaganda" and "unfair". It seems they just really hate the notion of their British public being ACTUALLY INFORMED before making a decision that's going to be very important to our lives in the future.

How dare people have information available to them!?
How dare those with a different opinion actually express it!?
How dare anyone else who doesn't agree with me speak about their fears for the future!?

Like it or not, this is a REFERENDUM, you guys in the Out camp do not have a right to dictate who gets to give their opinion on it, or what information is given to the public to help them make their decision. You do not have a hegemony in this debate.

You don't think you are missing the point in any way at all?

Maybe have a cuppa and a fag and try reading the premise of the thread again..

a reply to: SprocketUK

Please realize that bloviating self-important windbag only has 7 more months in fairy tale land before he's shown the door and the entirety of America can say "He sure as hell doesn't speak for me in any way, whatsoever."

Trade agreements and the like are the purvey of Congress... hopefully the next POTUS will recognize that and this rogue leader horsecrap will end with a single example of it in action.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Personally I couldn't care less what Obama has to say on the matter, his opinion, in my opinion is meaningless. Where as his opinion, in your opinion is correct, because it fits with your opinion.

It's all about opinions after all.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: SprocketUK

Please realize that bloviating self-important windbag only has 7 more months in fairy tale land before he's shown the door and the entirety of America can say "He sure as hell doesn't speak for me in any way, whatsoever."

Trade agreements and the like are the purvey of Congress... hopefully the next POTUS will recognize that and this rogue leader horsecrap will end with a single example of it in action.

Hope you are right (In fact I think, you almost definitely are right).

I have enjoyed seeing some of the Americans on my twitter feed having a laugh with the hashtag, I must admit. (Though the Democrat ones seem to be lacking a sense of humour).

originally posted by: SprocketUK
There is also the fact (completely ignored by the MSM) that the president of the USA will say and do what is best for the USA.

If the UK suffers but the USA gains an advantage (Through TTIP) he is still going to do what is best for his nation.

Believe me, Obama isn't about and has never been about "what's best for the USA." His priorities lie in doing what's best for his handlers and benefactors. They are all globalists and Rothschild lapdogs who seek unilateral control over the People through lording over all global trade, monetary policy, and demographic distribution. The name of the game is control the money, you control the politicians, you control the people, you control ALL the power. Why do you think countries like Syria and Russia are squarely in their crosshairs?

I think Obama laid it on the line for the UK. As Uncommitted said the far east companies came to the Uk for one reason only, which is the same as the US now. Uk IS their stepping stone into the EU. We come out of the EU and that reason has gone.
Your reason 1 is wrong. The reason the far east companies came to the Uk is that the other EU countries would not allow them in. Do you not remember the French putting an inport limit (10 car per week) on the Japanese car companies because they were not in the EU. THAT's why they built in the UK.
Your 2 is wrong also. If we leave the EU then some very large foriegn owned companies will lose the advantage of being in the UK and will try to sweet deal a European country instead.
I can tell you a very large US company has just bought a large UK based company specifically to get into Europe. If we come out that will go awol.
Let me make clear another Brexit lie that gets repeated time and again. Immigration!! Please understand this, the UK did NOT sign the Schengen agreement. Our borders have NEVER been open. The UK have NEVER been forced by the EU to take in thousands of immigrants, that has ALWAYS been the UKs governments decision. And if we come out of the EU it will not make one iotas difference to our immigration policy (whatever that is). Our borders have always been as secure as we can make them.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Another good point, well made

a reply to: uncommitted

What a terribly uninformed opinion you have.

originally posted by: crayzeed
I think Obama laid it on the line for the UK. As Uncommitted said the far east companies came to the Uk for one reason only, which is the same as the US now. Uk IS their stepping stone into the EU. We come out of the EU and that reason has gone.
Your reason 1 is wrong. The reason the far east companies came to the Uk is that the other EU countries would not allow them in. Do you not remember the French putting an inport limit (10 car per week) on the Japanese car companies because they were not in the EU. THAT's why they built in the UK.
Your 2 is wrong also. If we leave the EU then some very large foriegn owned companies will lose the advantage of being in the UK and will try to sweet deal a European country instead.
I can tell you a very large US company has just bought a large UK based company specifically to get into Europe. If we come out that will go awol.
Let me make clear another Brexit lie that gets repeated time and again. Immigration!! Please understand this, the UK did NOT sign the Schengen agreement. Our borders have NEVER been open. The UK have NEVER been forced by the EU to take in thousands of immigrants, that has ALWAYS been the UKs governments decision. And if we come out of the EU it will not make one iotas difference to our immigration policy (whatever that is). Our borders have always been as secure as we can make them.

Where to start...Ok, point one, The ford motor company doesn't make Transit vans in Turkey for sale in the EU that they used to make in Southampton? Is that what you are saying?

Point two assumes that outside of the EU we would be embargoed from trading with it....

As far as EU immigrants goes, 200 to 300 thousand per year have been coming in since 1997 ish.

The Shengen thing is a red herring, it applies to passport free travel.

As a member of the EU the UK can not stop any other EU citizen making their home here...If they could have, they would have, rather than set themselves up to fail dodgy Dave's tens of thousands promise.

There's also the utter lack of democratic accountability to consider...This country gets to vote for 8% of the MEP's who don't even get to make policy...they just rubber stamp what the unelected ministers have come up with in secret.

Anyway, that's kind of missing the point, which was really about Obama getting involved.

A leader must be wary of what his words will do. Decades of acrimony began in Canada after a '67 speech by French President de Gaulle.

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: intrepid
A leader must be wary of what his words will do. Decades of acrimony began in Canada after a '67 speech by French President de Gaulle.

en.wikipedia.org...

I wish I could give you 10 stars for that.

That post was spot on (I confess I didn't even know about that).

A really good comparison.

a reply to: schuyler

When David Cameron visits the US and addresses your nation directly with veiled threats relating to your choice of candidate then I will agree with you. Until then your argument is void.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Every sentence from Obama's mouth was carefully crafted with the full knowledge, consent & encouragement of Downing Street and the Foreign Office. The Opposition don't seem to object to Obama's choice of words either.

Far from the special relationship being at an end, it's the British establishment actively using it to their own advantage.

Perhaps at this time, when ordinary people on both sides of the Atlantic are heartily sick and tired of the corrupt, overpaid clowns who masquerade as the governing classes we're now seeing the special relationship being re-defined to prop up two ailing political systems ?

originally posted by: intrepid
A leader must be wary of what his words will do. Decades of acrimony began in Canada after a '67 speech by French President de Gaulle.

en.wikipedia.org...

He wasn't all bad, after all he blocked the U.K from joining the E.E.C in the 1960's.

He claimed we were too insular and until we parked our Island next to the continent, the U.K should never be allowed to join.

In fact when Howard Wilson became Prime Minister, apparently he was considering joining the U.S and the U.K becoming the 51st state. However, the U.S persuaded the U.K to join the E.E.C, so they could have access to the European markets.

originally posted by: SprocketUK
There is also the fact (completely ignored by the MSM) that the president of the USA will say and do what is best for the USA.

If the UK suffers but the USA gains an advantage (Through TTIP) he is still going to do what is best for his nation.

Obama?

Doing what is best for America?

Have you read any news in the last 7 years?

He only serves the rich and powerful, nobody else period!

The rich and powerful want a global government so they can destroy sovereignty and have an infinite supply of cheap 3rd world labor in our home nations as they get flooded even faster by them.

##obamaandtheglobalelites

Question if Obama thinks the EU is such a great place to be why doesnt he ask if America can join? All America would have to do to become a member is pay a few million a day, agree to have a great deal of their laws made by people the American people havent voted for and as an added bonus allow free movement of a few hundred million people from the EU to America as well as millions of migrants from the Middle East and Africa as well as visa free travel for 75 million Turks. Yeah can see that going down well with the American people. Well thats how a lot of Brits feel, we feel we have lost our sovereignity and even more worrying is it seems people in high places do not want British people to have the right to leave so they are going to make sure they get the result they want. Obama is yet another pawn. Hopefully though his intervention could sway some undecided to vote leave!

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: SprocketUK

Please realize that bloviating self-important windbag only has 7 more months in fairy tale land before he's shown the door and the entirety of America can say "He sure as hell doesn't speak for me in any way, whatsoever."

Trade agreements and the like are the purvey of Congress... hopefully the next POTUS will recognize that and this rogue leader horsecrap will end with a single example of it in action.

well said!!

a reply to: the2ofusr1

I used to dislike Katie Hopkins but I find myself agreeing more and more with what she has to say in the Daily Mail. She just cuts through all the bs. If you look at body language alone it is clear who has confidence, appears calm and wins this argument without any real effort.