Is this the end of the "special relationship" ?

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: SprocketUK
So, as you know, the UK is about to have a referendum on our continued membership of the European Union.

Obama decides to come over and add his 2p worth to all the nutters predicting the sky will fall should we leave.

I don't think much of him interfering like this. It's no one's business but ours.

Nor is our presidential election anybody's business but ours, yet Brits sure have a lot "2ps" opinion about that. So it's OK for Brits to weigh in on America's election, but it's not OK for Obama to weigh in about yours. The fact is most Americans don't give a rip how Britain votes--or Scotland. You will enjoy the consequences of what you do.

We shall enjoy watching.

Hmm, we don't have dodgy Dave wading into the Presidential election though, do we?

There's a world of difference between members of ATS holding a particular view about any of the U.S presidential candidates and a leader of a nation who's only interest in the U.K staying in the E.U, is to ensure his precious TTP agreement is ratified by all countries within the E.U, including the U.K.

This isn't a presidential election though, is it? FFS, I really cannot understand the mentality of people on here. Do you know what to hear the views of others, or are you scared they will say something that goes against your own opinion so much??

Its probably more important than a presidential election to be fair. Its a straight choice between one way and another. I really don't think it's becoming of a foreign head of state to weigh in.

How would the Yanks feel if the Queen stated she rather liked Donald Trump and wouldn't let Hillary set foot in any of her palaces?

It would be well out of order.

To compare the two is ridiculous, but then again didn't Boris start to look pale last night?

This isn't a general election, this isn't a presidential election. I'm sure there are plenty of world leaders that want to assure the vote leave campaign they are doing the right thing - probably, somewhere.

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: SprocketUK

When the prick comes out and says that he would cede supremacy of the US Supreme Court to a trans-American court I'll listen to what he has to say.
He's a full of # hypocrite, he knows full well that wouldn't fly in the US yet wishes that we vote against sovereignty.

He won't even be president when the UK is negotiating trade deals after any vote to leave.
# him, I support his right to an opinion of course but # his opinion wishing my country to continue ceding sovereignty to the EU.
Prick.

/rant

Your argument would hold weight if you were comparing apples to apples - it isn't. It's a knee jerk reaction that assumes the circumstances are the same and would be better placed if we were looking at joining the EU - we are already in. I think project fear is clearly being peddled by the vote leave campaign, shame they can't come out with actual compelling reasons to leave apart from nationalistic bollox, non sequiturs and the logic of a 16 year old who wants to be a politician.

So we should listen to old Bammy, but not to our own politicians?

You must be drunk.

Edit - In every post I make, if you do not agree with it, you usually bang out the word bias. Your post is full of your own bias. I am beginning to question exactly what your intentions are?

Which politicians, I assume you mean Corbyn as you praise him so often? Not drunk, just surprised at some of the comments on here.

originally posted by: Morrad
a reply to: uncommitted

What a terribly uninformed opinion you have.

Really? What a terribly blinkered person you must be.

originally posted by: Morrad
a reply to: schuyler

When David Cameron visits the US and addresses your nation directly with veiled threats relating to your choice of candidate then I will agree with you. Until then your argument is void.

What a terribly uninformed comment. If this was a general election (UK) or presidential election (US) and the person was advising to choose one political party over another, your comment would make sense. It isn't so it doesn't.

I watched the outgoing presidents speech and thought it was both patronising and ill advised , his remarks threatening we would be "back of the queue" in any trade deals an obvious and unwarranted threat.

Obama is being used by Cameron as a gun for hire , threats from the all powerful ( ) president intended to scare us little Brits into submission to stay within a corrupt and failing institution for the benefit of America , I think Barky just shot himself in the foot .... Ha ! .

Thanks Barky , my resolve to Vote Leave has been strengthened.

a reply to: LABTECH767

A lot to digest in that excellent post.
Firstly, on a human level, dead right. I bear no animosity to Americans in general, just their dodgy politicians who they also seem to loathe.

As for the rest, a well thought out and cogent explanation of where we are all at.

I hope that Britain leaves the EU. They have always been an independent and proud nation with a rich world history. Their kinship with America goes way back to America's beginnings. Let's hope that the Brits have the courage not to be blackmailed into submission by Obamma.

a reply to: uncommitted

Boris always looks pale tbf.

It's rather telling that remain bleat about racism where they knew damn well none was intended in order to deflect from the very valid point he made.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Morrad
a reply to: schuyler

When David Cameron visits the US and addresses your nation directly with veiled threats relating to your choice of candidate then I will agree with you. Until then your argument is void.

What a terribly uninformed comment. If this was a general election (UK) or presidential election (US) and the person was advising to choose one political party over another, your comment would make sense. It isn't so it doesn't.

It's far more important than a mere general election since the people we elect are responsible for less than half the laws made for this country.

As an outsider...recently Eu member...I dont understand some of you Brits. The World speaks English...some of you greatly underestimate the power the UK, especially London, has globally. No Brexit would change it...only strengthen it. Empty threats of doom are really childish and I dont understand how someone can fall for that. Trade is a human need. No borders or walls will hurt a living soul. Only over exaggerated profits will be hurt.

The world doesnt need the TIPP...we dont need genetically modified food to feed the world, because we waste so much good food that we could feed the world 10 times over with it. But the will is truly lacking globally.

The UK has lost some it's power exactly because of the EU. It has become just a slightly bigger dog in the kennel.

One stupid example..I follow the Premiership for the last 25 years very closely. Great fan of the MAN UTD, btw. I cant for the life
of me understand how a club like Arsenal can change the name of their stadium from Highbury to the Emirates. It's so symbolic if you think about it. But it's not just Arsenal. You are selling out your traditions...your predecessors...

For what ? For a few hundred million...Euros....

I dont know guys...maybe I sound overly nationalistic or something...but some things shouldnt be for sale in my view. Where is the pride ?

You certainly seem proud in declaring yourself British, or Irish, Or Welsh, or Scot, or English...so, be it. There has to be some value is being born where you are and where you come from. British used to value traditions. I realize the change is inevitable as we progress through the ages...but identity matters. Not to kill for it...but to value our diversity. In the end...it's what got us where we are.

originally posted by: gortex
I watched the outgoing presidents speech and thought it was both patronising and ill advised , his remarks threatening we would be "back of the queue" in any trade deals an obvious and unwarranted threat.

Obama is being used by Cameron as a gun for hire , threats from the all powerful (

) president intended to scare us little Brits into submission to stay within a corrupt and failing institution for the benefit of America , I think Barky just shot himself in the foot .... Ha ! .

Thanks Barky , my resolve to Vote Leave has been strengthened.

I agree, it could be just enough to bring out our noted bloody mindedness.

He's entitled to his opinion.

How many of us Brits are sitting here thinking that Donald Trump is a total idiot and that the USA is likely to be screwed royally if he becomes President?

And how many of us have actually said that?

Yes, I know he's the president of the US but really...who gives a toss what he thinks? He lives in a completely different world than any British grass roots voter. I know I sure as hell won't be walking into a polling booth thinking "what did the US president think"

Manufactured fuss over nothing.

Instead of Obama just sticking his nose and telling us what to do, why doesn't he help us out? I know most people in my area are voting Brexit purely because of the illegal immigrants arriving here daily. I live in Dover, its called the gateway to Europe, now-a-days we call it the gate way for immigrants. Our country is already well over capacity and getting worse daily.
America is huge, you guys have so much empty space and if your president is anything to go by you have waaayyy too much money as well, our PM drives himself around most the time when not on official business, he doesn't have jets, helicopters, massive armoured cars followed by an entourage of security like some kind of rockstar just to take him to the supermarket or drop the kids at school. Use some of that empty space and apparently endless cash flow to help Britain and the Syrians out.
Just out of interest...Are you guys over the pond happy with the amount that of your tax money that is spent on a single man??


Sell Obamas armoured car and it will house a lot of Syrian families for a really long time, I think it cost like 1.5 million for his car alone?. Is America really THAT #ed up that everyone wants to kill the president?? If not then why does he need so much armour? Buy him a Volvo instead, everyone knows there the safest cars in the world lol

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: SprocketUK

When the prick comes out and says that he would cede supremacy of the US Supreme Court to a trans-American court I'll listen to what he has to say.
He's a full of # hypocrite, he knows full well that wouldn't fly in the US yet wishes that we vote against sovereignty.

He won't even be president when the UK is negotiating trade deals after any vote to leave.
# him, I support his right to an opinion of course but # his opinion wishing my country to continue ceding sovereignty to the EU.
Prick.

/rant

Your argument would hold weight if you were comparing apples to apples - it isn't. It's a knee jerk reaction that assumes the circumstances are the same and would be better placed if we were looking at joining the EU - we are already in. I think project fear is clearly being peddled by the vote leave campaign, shame they can't come out with actual compelling reasons to leave apart from nationalistic bollox, non sequiturs and the logic of a 16 year old who wants to be a politician.

So we should listen to old Bammy, but not to our own politicians?

You must be drunk.

Edit - In every post I make, if you do not agree with it, you usually bang out the word bias. Your post is full of your own bias. I am beginning to question exactly what your intentions are?

Which politicians, I assume you mean Corbyn as you praise him so often? Not drunk, just surprised at some of the comments on here.

Well as Corbyn has declared his stance and he is very much in the remain camp, your comment is far off the mark.

I agree with Corbyn on many issues, remaining in the E.U isn't one of them.

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

That was a nice perspective on the situation. Thanks.

Of course, talking down the UK and sowing seeds of fear
for the future is pretty much all that the in crowd have.
I, like you, see a bright future outside the EU, but only if we get it right and vote in such massive numbers to leave, that the election rigging can't swing it.




Neforemore, the issue is that there are a lot of people who get "their opinions" from the talking heads on tv, it's those that I worry about and the reason we usually have rules regarding elections.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: SprocketUK
So, as you know, the UK is about to have a referendum on our continued membership of the European Union.

Obama decides to come over and add his 2p worth to all the nutters predicting the sky will fall should we leave.

I don't think much of him interfering like this. It's no one's business but ours.

Nor is our presidential election anybody's business but ours, yet Brits sure have a lot "2ps" opinion about that. So it's OK for Brits to weigh in on America's election, but it's not OK for Obama to weigh in about yours. The fact is most Americans don't give a rip how Britain votes--or Scotland. You will enjoy the consequences of what you do.

We shall enjoy watching.

Hmm, we don't have dodgy Dave wading into the Presidential election though, do we?

There's a world of difference between members of ATS holding a particular view about any of the U.S presidential candidates and a leader of a nation who's only interest in the U.K staying in the E.U, is to ensure his precious TTP agreement is ratified by all countries within the E.U, including the U.K.

This isn't a presidential election though, is it? FFS, I really cannot understand the mentality of people on here. Do you know what to hear the views of others, or are you scared they will say something that goes against your own opinion so much??

Its probably more important than a presidential election to be fair. Its a straight choice between one way and another. I really don't think it's becoming of a foreign head of state to weigh in.

How would the Yanks feel if the Queen stated she rather liked Donald Trump and wouldn't let Hillary set foot in any of her palaces?

It would be well out of order.

To compare the two is ridiculous, but then again didn't Boris start to look pale last night?

This isn't a general election, this isn't a presidential election. I'm sure there are plenty of world leaders that want to assure the vote leave campaign they are doing the right thing - probably, somewhere.

It's a question of sovereignty though isn't it, and whilst Obama can have an opinion, to share his opinion in the way he has, by using threatening language, only increases my resolve to vote leave.

He's perfectly entitled to offer his opinion - though I don't believe his intentions are anything other than to serve his globalist masters. Like Cameron he is just acting like a regional salesman for those in real power.

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
As an outsider...recently Eu member...I dont understand some of you Brits. The World speaks English...some of you greatly underestimate the power the UK, especially London, has globally. No Brexit would change it...only strengthen it. Empty threats of doom are really childish and I dont understand how someone can fall for that. Trade is a human need. No borders or walls will hurt a living soul. Only over exaggerated profits will be hurt.

The world doesnt need the TIPP...we dont need genetically modified food to feed the world, because we waste so much good food that we could feed the world 10 times over with it. But the will is truly lacking globally.

The UK has lost some it's power exactly because of the EU. It has become just a slightly bigger dog in the kennel.

One stupid example..I follow the Premiership for the last 25 years very closely. Great fan of the MAN UTD, btw. I cant for the life
of me understand how a club like Arsenal can change the name of their stadium from Highbury to the Emirates. It's so symbolic if you think about it. But it's not just Arsenal. You are selling out your traditions...your predecessors...

For what ? For a few hundred million...Euros....

I dont know guys...maybe I sound overly nationalistic or something...but some things shouldnt be for sale in my view. Where is the pride ?

You certainly seem proud in declaring yourself British, or Irish, Or Welsh, or Scot, or English...so, be it. There has to be some value is being born where you are and where you come from. British used to value traditions. I realize the change is inevitable as we progress through the ages...but identity matters. Not to kill for it...but to value our diversity. In the end...it's what got us where we are.

Good post. Unfortunately being proud of Britain these days is seen as racist.
Even wearing Union Jack clothing is being banned in places because it's offensive.

Our entire history is being destroyed in the name of Europe.

Wouldn't be surprised if Hameron offered Barry some kind of favour in exchange for his support. At the end of the day he's entitled to his opinion and it's not gonna change anything anyway...everyone decided how they're gonna vote a long time ago.

originally posted by: uncommitted
Not drunk, just surprised at some of the comments on here.

Totally agree. I have been trying to explain what Obama was saying for the last few months regarding this and no one on ATS wants to listen. The just believe the Leave mantra of "it will be alright, people want to trade with us still".

Well, yes, they will. But the world works very differently to the last time we were completely independent (in terms of trade deals, etc). Obama phrased it perfectly by saying we would be at the back of the queue. At no point did he say UK relations were not important, simply that as a nation they would first seek to do deals with blocs (would be the same for other "big" nations, such as China).

Why is this important? Again, a simple one. When the economy tanks, we will not have the £250 million a week we were sending to Brussels (the money the Leave camp will magically remain in a tanking economy). It would be way lower, with much higher social costs (increased benefits and unemployment).

Oh, we also still wouldn't have control of the borders (too many other treaties already signed, not simply just EU). Frankly, the Leave campaign came over all jingoistic, chest beating moronic idiots yesterday.