The English welch Scotts and Irish are all the same!

Well, here we go with some interesting facts...

Fact number One

People across the British Isles, and the UK in particular do have genetic diversity. This was shown in the research done a couple of years ago and consolided into the following website...

People of the British Isles

Easy to read summary of the the research

Many people in the UK feel a strong sense of regional identity, and it now appears that there may be a scientific basis to this feeling, according to a landmark new study into the genetic makeup of the British Isles.

Note the Scots are actually five genetic groups - Picts and Dalriada (Celt-variations) in the north and Britons and Saxons in the South (i.e. the Sassenachs). Not forgetting Orkney which are Norse!

PDF of the report

Fact number Two

Regardless of DNA, the people of the UK share the same values, beliefs and attitudes. The Scots may think they are different, but that's not actually true, although it's a core pillar of the nationalists mind-set to drive "difference". The British Attitude Survey has enough longitudinal depth of data to show that we are all much the same.

British Social Attitude Survey

I recommend perusing the BSAS website to understand how similar we actually are, rather than trying to find out-lying differences.

Fact number Three

Banter. What characterises the relationship between the English, Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish is a healthy and traditional jokey dislike, exemplified by the myriad of jokes "...an Irishman and Englishman sitting in a bar... etc". What has become increasingly worrying is overt racism, particularly in Scotland (towards the English) on the back of the rise of nationalism.

First random article found

“While racism against some ethnic groups is falling, it is still far too prevalent in Scottish society. This includes racist abuse directed towards the English, which is just as bad as any other form of racism and cannot be tolerated.”

originally posted by: pavmas
a reply to: lavatrance

'English' are Anglo-Saxons where the Scots, Irish and Welsh are are Celts. If you go as far back as the 6th century the Scots were Picts who mainly came from Ireland, Wales Ireland and Scotland have viking blood in them also. The English are totally different and come from Germany Anglo Saxons. So you are correct about the Scots, The Irish and the Welsh being the same but not the English.

English are Celt, Anglo-Saxon, French (Norman and Hugenot), Viking (mainly Dane but also Norse).

Welsh are Celt, Anglo-Saxon (and Italian in some valleys!)

Scots are Pict, Celt, Viking (Norse) and Anglo-Saxon.

Irish are Celt (with small Norse).

originally posted by: Lysergic
expand that gene pool, ya'll starting to look like da dirty south.

Does that mean i can call myself Bob Bob Billy Bob?

originally posted by: pavmas
a reply to: lavatrance

'English' are Anglo-Saxons where the Scots, Irish and Welsh are are Celts. If you go as far back as the 6th century the Scots were Picts who mainly came from Ireland, Wales Ireland and Scotland have viking blood in them also. The English are totally different and come from Germany Anglo Saxons. So you are correct about the Scots, The Irish and the Welsh being the same but not the English.

Actually genetically the Scots/Irish/Welsh are the exact same genetic mix as the English are. There's as much Anglo-Saxon blood in Scotland as England.

We're a real mongrel nation.

And it's virtually impossible to find anybody you could classify as genetically 'celtic'.

a reply to: Flavian

The study and the DNA across the British Isles (described in my post above), looks like the below. It helps to avoid generalisations.



Source opens PDF

a reply to: paraphi

According to the source (thanks for sharing) that is Britain circa 600 AD. How about Britain 200 BC or 1200 AD? Or, god forbid, Britain 2016?

Point being, the source itself is a generalised map. How did disease affect these results? For example, did the Plague of Justinian / Black Death / etc alter the genetic makeup of the nation? (ie, did people dying free up land for others to migrate to from varying parts of the country). Whilst these DNA studies are great for answering some questions, they inevitably raise a myriad more.

a reply to: paraphi
The map visible in your post is not the genetic map but the political map of approximately the time of Bede (the number of times I've seen that boundary structure in historical atlases!).
Your source also has a genetic map, but that's a different illustration.

originally posted by: lavatrance
a reply to: Freeborn

They're all originally Druids. Like I met this English woman. I said something referring her being English. She was like " no I'm welsh". Same difference! But they actually get insulted because they're brainwashed into such deep national pride. It's rediculous.

Isn't that like calling a Canadian an American or vice versa? Same thing. BTW, who do you think were 'all originally druids'? That's wrong on every level.

a reply to: lavatrance

I was born and raised in Wales, grandparents on mothers side 1st language Welsh speakers, grandparents on fathers side moved from Cornwall, and I've lived in England longer than anywhere else now.

I'm a mongrel, and wherever I go in the UK people are just people going about their daily business the same as each other.

Perhaps some folk in our four country mix think themselves better than the others, but personally I just think I'm a Brit, and glad to have been born on this island compared to all the crappy places out there in the world.

*Edit*
Oh, and I passed my own genes on with a lovely Devonian woman who's family history never left Dartmoor until she did.
Mongrels the lot of us

a reply to: Flavian

Bobert?

a reply to: DISRAELI
Yes, I stand corrected. However, the genetic prints can be over-laid on the map, so it remains relevant. For example, the Scots are definitely not all Celts and Celts are definitely not all Scots. In fact, the Celtic "identity" is a modern construct beloved of Hollywood, nationalists and revisionists e.g. the "noble savage" figure.

originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: Flavian

Bobert?

I have an uncle called Bobert.

He is in fact my mothers brother.

a reply to: nonspecific

Does he play the banjo?

a reply to: lavatrance

Yep, the OP's correct, more or less.

I'm laughing at some of the haughty reactions of some fellow Brits.

We've been sharing these islands for a few thousand years, there've been constant, incessant migrations from A to B, with consequent mixing of genes as well as cultures.

We all look the same for a start, which is a good pointer. I know Neil Oliver in Face of Britain tried to prove that faces have genetic similarities in certain areas of the country, but few could take him seriously. Entertaining as a piece of harmless flimflam, but come on...

The English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish thing is just politico-cultural flag-waving...the same people standing behind different banners with a tenuous appeal to history to bolster their supposed cultural/genetic separateness. You could say exactly the same thing about a lot of Europe too.

The only thing I will say is there might be a tiny bit more genetic variance between inhabitants of Ireland and those of Britain, due simply to the relative isolation afforded by the Irish Sea...but it didn't stop people sailing back and forth down the millennia and settling wherever they would.

Case in point: Scotland. It got its name from an Irish tribe called the Scots. Say no more.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: nonspecific

Does he play the banjo?

No, the Ukelele (Britain, after all).

You would also be amazed at the things he can do with a couple of hankies, bells and sticks.

originally posted by: Flavian

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: nonspecific

Does he play the banjo?

No, the Ukelele (Britain, after all).

You would also be amazed at the things he can do with a couple of hankies, bells and sticks.

...don't forget the inflated pigs bladder

a reply to: CJCrawley

Agreed.
I also think there is an element of wishing to feel 'special' with some folk, you know, something different to being just a regular UK citizen of mixed ancestry.
A nationalistic version of 'indigo children' if you like.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: nonspecific

Does he play the banjo?

No but my old man was a dustman...

a reply to: nonspecific

A most needed an undervalued occupation

...did he wear cor-blimey trousers?

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: nonspecific

A most needed an undervalued occupation

...did he wear cor-blimey trousers?

Sadly not which makes the story a little less comedic.

He did wear at a hat though although I could not confirm if it was a dustman's one or just a regular hat.