(Vermont) House OKs major tax for e-cigarettes

As of April 1st 2016 the Vermont House of Representatives approved a bill that adds a 92% tax to all e-cigarette devices. The process was questionable since the Representative who authored it, George Till-D, tried to add it to an omnibus tax bill which was blocked using House rules. His bill was then copied by the Ways and Means Committee of Vermont and ok'd to go on to the Senate.

Basically just the process the bill took. Kind of unusual but thats not my main problem, although if you want to read more here's the link to that:
www.rutlandherald.com...

And now:

The American Cancer Society applauded the House action. “This tax is an important step in getting e-cigarettes out of the hands of Vermont youth,” spokeswoman Jill Sudhoff-Guerin said. “We know kids are extremely price sensitive, so keeping the price high enough will help slow down the skyrocketing use of the unregulated, addictive products by Vermont kids,” she added. “This tax at 92 percent of wholesale would create parity with cigarettes and other tobacco products, which will help eliminate the switching to e-cigarettes.

That is all fine and dandy (it's really not) but a 92% tax on e-cigarette devices would absolutely kill the market in Vermont for adults as well. The American Cancer Society seems to prefer the smoking of regular cigarettes, which are known to cause cancer, rather than e-cigarettes, which may cause cancer although that hasn't been proven yet at all. The ACS believes that the e-cigarette industry is just another arm of the Big Tobacco Industry trying to get more kids to smoke and use their products, which is patently false for anyone who cares to do any research.

(here's a google search on Big Tobacco against vaping

www.google.com...

)

To me this just seems like the Big Tobacco and Big Pharma industries trying to get a product that may actually be helping people off the market because it will not contribute or will reduce their own profits. The fact that the ACS seems to be in on it is just more infuriating.

Also this story is where I got most of my information and links from
tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com...


(note: sorry if any of the links or quotes do not work or are done wrong, this is my first time trying to use the ATS tools so if they don't work Ill do my best to fix)

a reply to: KingKelson

"They" will do anything to slow the Vape boom-it's hurting the tobacco tax income so they need to get the money from somewhere else.

Nicotine isn't addictive.Tobacco is.Vaping almost certainly won't cause cancer but tobacco certainly does.

I don't think the cigarette manufacturers are very bothered because the nicotine is sourced from them.

a reply to: KingKelson

Would make more sense if they would tax e-liquids which got nicotine in them.. The devices themselves ain't additictive of course.

Am using myself eliquid without Nicotine. Anyways I dare to say e-cigarettes are the best way to quit smoking and of course the much much more healthier way to do.. And you do have some cool and great devices now!

Many people see smoke and go crazy.. And ex smokers are the biggest nazis about vaping lol..

a reply to: Ericthedoubter

The only people who claim nicotine is not addictive is big tabbacco. Nicotine is indeed addictive. E cigs and thier corresponding liquid help quit because you can reduce nicotine levels and change habits. But don't for a bit think the main chemical is not addictive.

I say this as a smoker of cigs and e cigs over time. Yes I have my demons but I'll look them in the face.

Edit... Fun fact. Did you know the cigarette companies press the leaves into a sheet and soak it in eather. This knocks off the last three carbon molecules of nicotine. It is the same chemical effect when one turned co cane into crac k. Basically turning up the effect and addictive potential. And guess what. Eather is an organic compound so yes they do it to organic ciggies.

I know it's off topic but knowledge is power

a reply to: KingKelson
You are right.

It is certainly The American cancer Society being bought by people that sell Chantix, gum, patches and probably big tobacco. It is a tragedy that this is happening. I have been stocking up on new tanks, batteries, bottles of e juice in case this crap happens in my state.

Chantix--don;t worry about smoking, you will just want to kill yourself.

Nicotine gum- It works for a few people, not most.

Patches- Nicotine is released unevenly, causing anxiety attacks in those prone (like me) and occasional overdoses.

Cold turkey- cheers if you can do it, most can't.

Of course, I find a way to save my life and at the same time save- well when I changed to vaping I saved about $70 a month. If I was still smoking analog cigarettes and quit today, i would be saving $300+ a month- and big business gets p*ssed off.

Screw them. they can't have my money. I will drive to other states or order over the Tor browser if it comes to it.

a reply to: Sillyosaurus

Perhaps a bit but so is caffeine then.. The most addictive is the habit yes.

But anyways why not tax gasoline cars or engines 99% using the same logic.. In fact since cars are effecting others much more an is proven for bad air quality, 1000% seems more right..

originally posted by: Sillyosaurus
a reply to: Ericthedoubter

The only people who claim nicotine is not addictive is big tabbacco. Nicotine is indeed addictive. E cigs and thier corresponding liquid help quit because you can reduce nicotine levels and change habits. But don't for a bit think the main chemical is not addictive.

I say this as a smoker of cigs and e cigs over time. Yes I have my demons but I'll look them in the face.

Edit... Fun fact. Did you know the cigarette companies press the leaves into a sheet and soak it in eather. This knocks off the last three carbon molecules of nicotine. It is the same chemical effect when one turned co cane into crac k. Basically turning up the effect and addictive potential. And guess what. Eather is an organic compound so yes they do it to organic ciggies.

I know it's off topic but knowledge is power

Of course it is addictive. I have gone gradually from 32mg to 16. but there are only 4 ingredients in e juice as compared to 2000+ in cigarettes, more than 1 carcinogenic. They may have thrown in 1 or 2 more that are addictive other than nicotine in cigarettes, I read. Even in e-juice, one can bring it down to 3 ingredients and even 2 if at 0 nicotine.

It is also the combustion in cigarettes that is the big problem. There is no combustion in electronic cigarettes.

a reply to: Sillyosaurus

Dude, American Spirits don't use any "added chemicals" -- even if ether or whatever is "natural" it would be an "added chemical".

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Sillyosaurus

Dude, American Spirits don't use any "added chemicals" -- even if ether or whatever is "natural" it would be an "added chemical".

True.

I have seen a lot of celebrities smoke the brand 'American Spirit'. Possibly it has less ingredients than say a marlboro , but it is still combustion. The thing one's lungs have the biggest problem with.

They feed us the potent carcinogen and poison left over from making aluminium.....(because it is too expensive to dispose of safely) in every glass of water we drink!
Then they want to tax e cigs because of the suspicion they may cause cancer hey.....?
I call BULL#!!!
Its all about the MONEY.....
Its ALWAYS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY....
They don't want you healthy...they just want the godamn money....

a reply to: reldra

They make 32 mg e liquid? Good lord. If i hit 12 mg liquid it kills me anymore. I literally thought 18mg was the absolute strongest they had..and that on special request.
Still good on you for progress. I dont think ill ever be able to do 0 mg.

originally posted by: Pluginn
a reply to: KingKelson

Would make more sense if they would tax e-liquids which got nicotine in them.. The devices themselves ain't additictive of course.

Am using myself eliquid without Nicotine. Anyways I dare to say e-cigarettes are the best way to quit smoking and of course the much much more healthier way to do.. And you do have some cool and great devices now!

Many people see smoke and go crazy.. And ex smokers are the biggest nazis about vaping lol..

I already pay sales tax in NY on anything to do with e cigs. I should not have to pay tax as if it were tobacco.

Some ex-smokers and some that changed to vaping are abrasive. But not all. I am not.

I have said before here, if I have a guest in my home and they ask if they can smoke, I say sure and I go get an ashtray.

If I have several people over and they all smoke, my eyes get irritated now. I can live with the smell. At that point I say something like 'Why don't we all go out on the porch?'

I do notice the smell more outside now, oddly, like at a bus stop or by a big building doorway. but outside is outside and it is not my place to judge that.

I don't own outside and I know car exhaust is worse than any cigarettes I may smell.

a reply to: KingKelson

Great now I gotta worry about the "youths" stealing so they can join vape nation, now that there is an artificial barrier.

originally posted by: lightedhype
a reply to: reldra

They make 32 mg e liquid? Good lord. If i hit 12 mg liquid it kills me anymore. I literally thought 18mg was the absolute strongest they had..and that on special request.
Still good on you for progress. I dont think ill ever be able to do 0 mg.

36 is actually the strongest I have seen. It also depends on what tank you use it in. It also depends on how you vape. It also depends on what tank you have. A new snazzy sub ohm tank, 32 mg may cause a coughing fit, especially if you inhale directly without taking the vape into your mouth first.

I did not stay at 32 for long, maybe a couple months. To make sure I stayed on it. It was also 2012. I was not using a state of the art kit. I think I was using cartridges that could be refilled only a few times before they were useless.
A plastic thing that looked like a cigar tip.

Now, I would never vape 32mg. 16 worked for me for a long time. I have just bought some 12 mg.

I also have a 50w istick and keep it at 8 watts. depends on your style of vaping, as I say.

a reply to: reldra

You don't use a dripper,then.😃

I make mine at 2.5 mg nicotine,but I could fill a room in five minutes.

I'll have to check up on nicotine's addictiveness-there are studies that claim it isn't so I'll try and find them later.

a reply to: Ericthedoubter

Dank clouds bro.

VN!

Hey serious question though, has vape jooze been linked to cancer? or not enough time?

I see no reason to raise the price other than some douches feel they can.

originally posted by: Ericthedoubter
a reply to: reldra

You don't use a dripper,then.😃

I make mine at 2.5 mg nicotine,but I could fill a room in five minutes.

I'll have to check up on nicotine's addictiveness-there are studies that claim it isn't so I'll try and find them later.

I do refill my tank drip by drip. It is a Aspire nautilus, at the moment. I have a few. I am using Kickin Cola by Steam Junk. My tank does not produce a room full of vapor. but that is not dependent upon the nicotine amount.

Lol...nicotine has been shown to be about as addictive as heroin. You need not do much research.

originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: Ericthedoubter

Dank clouds bro.

VN!

Hey serious question though, has vape jooze been linked to cancer? or not enough time?

I see no reason to raise the price other than some douches feel they can.

It never has, there are no carcinogens in it.

Nicotine, FDA approved flavoring, food grade propylene glycol, food grade vegetable glycerine. Sometimes I have it made up with no propylene glycol as some complain it irritates existing allergies.

It's been on the market since about 2007. A few batches early on, made in China, were found to have some potentially dangerous ingredients. but most people buy their juice from the US or the UK. China has been warned. I only buy locally, where they make the juice there or from Totally Wicked, that has offices in the UK and the US.

a reply to: Lysergic

Well they know what's inside and asking some lung doctors they say something it's worse smoking 1 sigarette then vaping a whole year (or something like that).
But it's hard to prove if you get lung cancer what the cause was.. if you smoked sigarettes for a long time and or living near a busy road/highway/city with lots of traffic)..., it sure would be hard to tell what caused cancer.

But same with any cancer, I mean you know certain things are more unhealthy, like processed meat.. still hard to say what the cause for it was.. But sure if people who vape like crazy and get similar deceases in lets say 10 years from now.. then you could prove that it's bad for you.
But as for now it doesn't seem that unhealthy/bad for you..
I mean the air outside isn't even great for you (in many city's with tons of traffic) and likely more unhealthy then vaping, but you don't even think about that..

a reply to: reldra

Thats what I've figured, I mean I have had vapepens that had that glycol in it, I prefer my wax free of that crap tbh.

So I totally think the tax hike is #ed. Someone is benefiting from that bill, and it aint the childrens.