Why is Socialism so heavily disliked?

a reply to: Dfairlite

Never tried a deep fried mars bar but given my weight I better not, that frit sauce though was unreal probably something illicit in it but whatever it was I always thought I could make good chip's (french fries) but it seem's no one beats the dutch when it comes to food.

Every country has it's specialty, my sister married an Iranian whom came to britain as a student and before we learned about his bad side we did at first think he was OK though my mother saw right through him and tried to run him over with her car, he abused my nepphew for years, jeanette's former fiance had died in an accident and Carl was a typical blond blue eye'd little boy, My mother and sister (another one I have six and two brother's) did not tell me there suspicions at the time or things would have gotten ugly with him but I am of course straying from the point, anyway he opened a chain of pizza/kebab shop's but he could never master the sauce that a Turkish gentleman in Liverpool made whom owned an imaginatively named fast food shop called the Kibab House, used, he would go there buy a Kibab and sit outside in his van eating it trying to guess what the Turkish chef's ingrediant's were but he never managed to copy it.

I have yet to try a Turkish Pizza though, the best Pizza I ever had was a stone baked one from an Italian themed restaurant in (i am probably spelling this wrong) a town called Kakinan in japan, I was working for the same company at the time and I along with a few others' had been sent there to train up on a process to bring back to the UK, two week's in Japan eating what they termed Western Breakfast was an eye opener, it was fresh, clean and very healthy even though I avoided sushi and wasabi (Yeah I am a wimp, I even avoid horse raddish) but after that I felt so well it was unbelievable, never felt better in my life in fact so I would say that if I had a choice it would probably be Japanese chef's simply because there food is palatable and it make's you feel good.

Tokyo back in 98 was a strange place, while it was booming there were homeless on the streets whom would vanish very quickly in the morning and even the homeless seemed to be immaculate, a cardboard box serving as a home for someone had a bead screen hanging over what you could call it's entrance and that has never left me, I only saw a few begger's and black cars with tinted windows they would be bowing too but on begger touched my heart, he had shoes that were litterally without soles so I dug into my wallet and gave him enough to at least get enough food for a night or three, I had come from a country which at that time with the exception of london and a few other inner citys had no beggers or homeless so seeing that was a shock for me, to see a man so humiliated and broken, now I see it ever day here in the UK and it is getting me very angry, it is all because of group of criminals in the Bilderberghers and the IMF, democratic socialism blended with regulated capitialism really is not that bad but leaving a man, a fellow human being to die in the gutter most definitely is.

LABTECH767 it is bad to eat decadent food. I am reading
a recipe for a white chocolate cheesecake that I would
like to make and eat. Sensibility rules, however, and I
skip to bad stuff. However, presented with a dessert,
say mousse, I would be hard pressed not to partake
and ingest the demon food.

There is a bigger picture to some, that extends into
outer space and grand illusions of human greatness
extending beyond the Solar System. This is just
normal forward thinking on. Seeing as some few
have the capability to go there - then they will
make the decisions and flowcharts.

The needy, homeless and bereft people exist
as a failure of the plans, and some who witness
the atrocity can speak about it. Once enough
cruel and cold blooded things happen to those
in poverty it may be found by those few that
it is desirable to eliminate human suffering.

Once the perfect society that has the perfect
city with the best schools and shopping centers
and city center it will end abhorrent treatment
of the lowest class. Everyone is affluent so
there is nobody living outside of a house or
apartment or room.

With the OWO every country will comply with
humanitarian standards where no one person
is allowed to exist without the means to
live a happy and fruitful life.


a reply to: LABTECH767

a reply to: Drawsoho

The only problem is even if the perfect society is achieved there will still be those that want power over there fellow man and impoverishing them is one tactic they will likely still fall back on, wealth is power but only so long as there are poor people, asymetric distribution of wealth undermines democratic process by forming many imbalance's in the power structure and so politicians fall to corruption.

It was once put this way "Power corrupts" but a later revision which is more pertinent re-phrased it "Power attracts the corrupt".

Now every one of us craves power to some degree, power over our own destiny, power over where we live and what job we do, power over our wealth so that we shall not fall into that poverty but it is this fundamental grab and dog eat dog attitude that is at the root of many of the social problems of the twenty first century.

And no matter how many process or flow chart's are made or how think tank's try to lay out a structured program for social development they will always fail, it is not that they will fail that is therefore important but ultimately by how much they fail, is the goal of a fair society worth fighting for and can it be achieved or is politics as I suspect a pendulum in which every swing too far to the right will inevitably and eventually lead to a swing to the left and also sometimes too far and vice versa.

How can we regulate that pendulum and keep it in the centre of it's swing were despite nobody being completely happy with it, it nevertheless provides the fairest and most comprehensive political coverage of both sides of society's divide, when will we learn to make political compromises in favour of a fair society and actually think about other's and there well being when we cast our vote's.

Can we build a fair society, Not through unregulated capitalism and current economic models that is definitely for sure but how then, can we roll back the clock thirty years and put back in place structures that worked perfectly well but which were overturned by society becoming blase and forgetting the price they paid to attain those structure's, can we stop ultra right wingers ever again taking power and filtering the society's wealth into the miniscule microcosm of the corrupt at the very top, probably not but is it worth trying to do so, well I say and believe that YES is the answer.

What the right wing element forget is that Socialism is not communism, there are still rich and if the base of society are lifted out of absolute poverty so that homelessness is expunged from society along with poor education, hunger and low life expectancy then in fact they benefit from the far superior and much more law abiding society they then find themselves living in but I Swear there are many of them whom would happily ship the poor to concentration camp's and god help us all as a species if this thread is any barometer of now many of them that there are.

Oh how I would like a bit of that cheese cake right now with a nice cup of tea (English style with evaporated milk and suger or honey - undoes any goodness the tea may have in it).

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: lydie15
It's All about the Benjamin's . Socialism Never Creates Wealth , it can Only Absorb it which makes it Doomed to Failure .

The people create the wealth; the government consumes all of it and attempts (happy days) to redistribute it evenly and by doing so becomes corrupt (why give this to the people when we *as self proclaimed leaders* can TAKE IT ALL). Once the people stop producing (and they will as there is no incentive to produce/create wealth will be taken from you) ones nation becomes a modern day totalitarian/dictatorship: A NORTH KOREA or CUBA self starving entities. The people suffer; the government develops gout.

a reply to: Dragoon01

Because many of us here have actually known people who lived under real socialist systems. We know the suffering that they endured, we have heard their stories and the warnings that they passed to us first hand.

I lived under Socialist government for, taken all in all, twelve years. I spoke of a few of my experiences early on in the thread. Although the Socialist era in my country is long over, the damaging effects still linger in the economy and the culture.

Now contrast that with the special snowflakes who have heard some much about how awesome socialism is from their high school or college teachers. Teachers who have no GD clue about WHAT socialism is, how it is actually practiced, and what it is like to live in it.

Absolutely. These people describe a Utopia that is literally nothing like the nightmare reality.

The sad thing is, this is mostly how Socialism comes about. Rich malcontents throwing their lot in with the workers. The first generation of Socialists and Communists in my country learnt their politics at the London School of Economics under the persuasive but execrable Harold Laski. Their fathers mostly made their money in cheap booze and plantations — nice, socially responsible industries.

a reply to: Astyanax

One would have to create a NEW model,until then we are stuck with capitalism.
IT NOW has it's warlords running wild in a whole new war on countries themselves.
DIVING into direct socialism, would be violently opposed in the US.

All in all we have been lied to by a a false idea that we HAVE to make real or fall.

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: Dragoon01
The sad thing is, this is mostly how Socialism comes about. Rich malcontents throwing their lot in with the workers. The first generation of Socialists and Communists in my country learnt their politics at the London School of Economics under the persuasive but execrable Harold Laski. Their fathers mostly made their money in cheap booze and plantations — nice, socially responsible industries.

Those that built their Squires in the boom years (think of them as Self Sustaining counties in the states of the US) of the 1600's in Great Briton and European soil on the backs of "trade" or duping 3rd world countries out of their (spice, rubber, coffee, precious gems) cannot now support their current enormous estates. Of course not; as the top heavy in wealth fell to a 98% tax and eventual ruin. The trade wars are so long gone; the Dutch vs the British vs the Spanish vs the French. ALL GONE. Now decaying estates; of course this would happen. There were no more people to sustain them due to the World Wars and casualties inflicted on the male populations. One needed those that farmed your land (lived in the cottages the Estate built) providing grain and livestock to be consumed by the Shire. These were self sustaining 'Oligarchy' systems existing from the 1500s to 1900 and those Shires worked. Socialism in Europe crept in took a foothold in 1930 and destroyed them; you make the determination of (WAS THIS A GOOD THING)?

a reply to: cavtrooper7
How many NEWER models do you need? Look at history and tell me one that has succeeded as bravely or courageously as Capitalism has?

a reply to: vethumanbeing

It's gotten a tad top heavy, we need a better model.

originally posted by: Dfairlite

Cleaning up the streets,
I've been all over Europe, your streets are teeming with the homeless, disabled, and beggars. I've never seen as many beggars in the US as I have in europe. Why isn't your safety net working?

Really? Is that true in Germany? I rarely see any here in France, and everytime I go back to the US, I am overwhelmed by the number of them! Maybe it depends on if you go to big cities, because in the US I noticed it more in the Los Angeles area, and parts of Florida, and here I live in a rural area...

In the town I used to live in there were often the Rom beggars... but they have nothing at all do with the security net.
Just try to give them food, or offer them shelter....LOL.. Because I have! I was very naive at first. I'd bring them bread and such. Even women with toddlers next to them half naked would get mad and throw it, cursing me in their language!

With time, and observation, I learned that if you go sit in your car where they don't know you are watching, there is a man somewhere close watching her, and demanding that she hand over the money she reaps periodically. It is a scam. They can be sheltered and given everything they need whenever they want, but that is not what they want. They come here to gather money and take it out with them. That is what the "voluntary ego boosting donation" gets you here. Conned.

So they prefer that help only goes to their who are willing to accept responsibility with it.

Health care,
My wife gave birth in germany. The only positive was that we didn't have to pay for it, but that wasn't because germany was so kind. That was because I had a zero deductible plan that covered me internationally. This was before the nACA went into effect. And let me just say this, I wouldn't have paid a dime for that care anywhere because it was awful. 2 hour waits for appointments that last 10 minutes (what's the point of having an appointment). Sharing a room with strangers like some sort of hostel. 1980-1990's technology. Just terrible.

I've given birth in the US and in France, and the contrast is striking. I never realized how bad the healthcare was in California until I experienced it here. Complete opposite of your experience in Germany.
Just goes to show that the devil may be in the details- of exactly how a system is set up and who is operating in it.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: vethumanbeing

It's gotten a tad top heavy, we need a better model.

What is your plan to de-construct the Banking Systems (world wide).

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I'm afraid that would take a person who's capable of doing so.
My job was somewhat different.
Tech separated in the black world from the white world back in the 50s that would have helped out.
But the system will either be reset or fall.

a reply to: cavtrooper7
That reply is very ambiguous (good man). What does your instinct tell you? I think the system has to fail and then reset naturally. Others have a different idea.

a reply to: Astyanax


I will need to go back and read the entire thread to see your earlier remarks.
I have worked with so many people who lived under socialist and communist regimes. None of them look back on them with fondness.

I hope your delivery was easy. Too bad the insurance you
had was deficient. It must have been harrowing enough
without worrying about payment terms.

You are quite a lot generalizing about the poor, those
out on the street. Every person (and there are scads of
them in every city) has a unique story to tell. To say
they all seek the quick buck or handout is facetious, as
when down on your knees broke is hard on the soul. Ben
Franklin remarked that poverty was the meanest way
of life, since getting out of it was so hard. This de-
moralizes and fatigues the persons. How easy is to
find a safe and warm bed for the night is it for most?
When will they get the nutrition and good diet they
need?

Let's imagine Joe is a son of Betty and Bob, both who
work at XYZ, inc. Joe becomes distraught and loses
his job and is harangued by his parents after becoming
monetarily dependent on them. He ends up out there,
without money or job or help from relatives. He loses
his car and license when he cannot pay and he goes
to the free mission for food and to sleep. That can
only happen for a little while then he goes downtown
to live in a cardboard box.

There are a fair proportion of educated homeless with
college degrees. Many have high school diplomas. But
when arrested, many feel farther away from getting
a job and end being homeless. State provided free
housing to the homeless is a good thing as in Utah.
Perhaps someday, the sons, daughters, moms and
dads who live homeless will be able to live in a home.


a reply to: Bluesma

a reply to: vethumanbeing

VERY soon all that might be rather redundant,rebuilding will then be a neccessity,no doubt returning to a gold standard and breaking up the bigger central banks.

originally posted by: Drawsoho
I hope your delivery was easy. Too bad the insurance you
had was deficient. It must have been harrowing enough
without worrying about payment terms.

All my deliveries were easy, and never was my insurance deficient (?).
Just, in the US, I had low quality care, and good quality care in France.

You are quite a lot generalizing about the poor, those
out on the street. Every person (and there are scads of
them in every city) has a unique story to tell.

Well, it wasn't generalizing that much, it was referring specifically to the Roms here...

I've been homeless myself, I am not unfamiliar with the experience. But I also never refused food or shelter people offered me. If someone refuses such aid, it is reasonable to deduct that is not what they want. There are state workers here who go out, especially at night to find and convince homeless people to come into shelters. But you cannot force people to accept aid against their will, unless you can prove they are very mentally ill or mentally deficient (which isn't easy, there are a lot of laws protecting individuals, all the same).

That is exactly the approach taken by the
establishment. What is not right is that the life
of the homeless is unaffected by and far distant
from what benefit they get with a handout.

Giving one a home doesn't end homelessness.
It is necessary to provide the means to
attaining happiness. Interventionists will
continue to intrude on the people who are
adrift.

What is needed is the follow-up care and
supervision tailored for each individual. Only
then can meaningful progress be made to
end homelessness.

Some resist the nanny state and it's efforts so
they rebel and detach from society. It may be
the magnanimous gesture that gives them more
money than they need which allows for
possible self realization.

a reply to: Bluesma

a reply to: lydie15

Simple. Socialism is heavily disliked because the majority of the wealth ends up in the hands of the government and everyone ends up equally as poor because when you "redistribute" wealth among a large amount of people a large amount of money becomes a little amount of money.

For Example:

If someone has a 100 dollars and the government takes 75 dollars of that to redistribute it to 50 people in the name of "equality" those 50 people end up with 1.50 cents. Then of course the government has to take their share of that 75 dollars to pay the people who administrate and redistribute the wealth so people actually end up with less.

That's why socialism doesn't work.

originally posted by: Drawsoho


Giving one a home doesn't end homelessness.
It is necessary to provide the means to
attaining happiness. Interventionists will
continue to intrude on the people who are
adrift.

What is needed is the follow-up care and
supervision tailored for each individual. Only
then can meaningful progress be made to
end homelessness.

Well, you are getting close to understanding what I originally said.

I wrote that in this country, the masses prefer (have voted into being a system which) gives help and security to those in need, but which obliges them to be responsible as well.

By responsibility I mean that, going into shelters isn't just handouts for the night,
you are brought into a program, in which you will be guided and helped to learn things like taking care of yourself, learning skills for living and working, and being active in working towards independence.

This is why some homeless people refuse the aid offered, and why we have these state workers who try to change their mind and convince them to enter in. Security and total freedom are ultimately incompatible. In this country, you cannot have the security of material aid, while retaining the freedom to be irresponsible with it. It's like growing up, as you prove you can handle responsibility, more freedom is given to you.

You cannot, for example, get a pay check from welfare each month and use it to buy an iPhone, like in the states.
You get aid, but do not have the right to abuse it.

So this was originally in response to the question of why a country with a good security net can still have beggars and homeless people.
-There are some who are not truly homeless, but are foreigners have found begging to be a effective source of income when organized.
-Some are people who cling tightly to their freedom as individuals despite their lack of ability to take care of their self and/or self destructive tendencies.