Why is Socialism so heavily disliked?

Guadalupe, the French island nation, has a net TV
to broadcast with, and it is on the web free to any
person who has net TV.

Watching a show about the Carnaval presentations
from the hundreds of towns and villages, impressed
upon me the difference between the them and
anywhere else compared to this socialist country.
Not only did the white French participate with the
natives, it was clear the city was trying to be
modern. Amazing the variety and opulence some
cities had - tall headdresses with small bananas on
them, vibrant feathers and fanciful clothes. All while
they pranced down the street, watched by many
people and judged. Each tribe had a different
theme and ornate costumes dancing to the beat
of the tribe's music.

The homeless rate in that country is zero. Funny how
doing a jig while walking down the street at mardi
gras, and solve the worlds problems.

In the US beggars are at every corner, the young ones
with any redeeming value, being a nuisance. The
other older homeless try to find a good bed or sleep
in their car. Shame there isn't a center to go to to
be given 1000$.


a reply to: Bluesma

Socialism is heavily disliked in the US because our mas media and news pundits tell us it's bad and we buy the propaganda hook, line and sinker. We're not very smart in the USA. We watch Duck Dynasty and Honey boo and the Kardashians, we elect the same clueless congressmen over and over again and then we listen to "media talking heads and radio personalities" and believe everything they say. We listen to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter and Denise Prager and Michael Savage and Bill O'Rielly. And because...well they're on Radio and TV, they must be right.

To be fair there are left wing idiots as well, but they apparently aren't very good at spreading propaganda because I only know a couple of their names and they never make the news or get very many viewers or listeners.

a reply to: amazing

OR we could rely on those of us who lived and worked through that LAST Cold War and remember how these types operated on EVERY country that was RUN on the socialist model,and how they ALL failed.
As opposed to what the cell phone says.

The worst part of socialism is the people that live under it and administer it. Just because a government spreads the wealth doesn't mean that everyone is going to work for the good of humanity. The majority of people out there look out for number one and that will never change. The majority of people out there if they were given access to public money with no accountability would steal that money in a heart beat. Most people out there if given the chance to sit on their butts and get everything paid for would never leave the house. I for one don't relish the though of working for free and being a slave to the government or people that are so called worse off. As far as I can tell the people whom don't have to work for a living are the ones that are better off.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: amazing

OR we could rely on those of us who lived and worked through that LAST Cold War and remember how these types operated on EVERY country that was RUN on the socialist model,and how they ALL failed.
As opposed to what the cell phone says.

Or we could look and see that Stalin and Hitler and Mussolini are nothing like Sanders... or you could keep believing everything Fox News and Talk radio tell you and believe what THEY want you to believe.

To get a real sense of what Sanders is about or what modern socialism and socialist countries are... you just have to look at the Nordic countries and how they operate. How about that?

originally posted by: jkm1864
The worst part of socialism is the people that live under it and administer it. Just because a government spreads the wealth doesn't mean that everyone is going to work for the good of humanity. The majority of people out there look out for number one and that will never change. The majority of people out there if they were given access to public money with no accountability would steal that money in a heart beat. Most people out there if given the chance to sit on their butts and get everything paid for would never leave the house. I for one don't relish the though of working for free and being a slave to the government or people that are so called worse off. As far as I can tell the people whom don't have to work for a living are the ones that are better off.

You already work for free and are a slave of the governement. The difference between modern socialist countries and the USA is that we spend all that money on our police, Military, CIA, NSA, FBI, IRS, TSA, ATF, DOF, ICE etc. But please tell me how spending more money on education and healthcare and the environment is taking away your freedom? LOL

a reply to: cavtrooper7

Actually you are wrong, we were on your side and our nation was Socialist most of the time, Labour Socialist, Communist is not Socialist it is totalitarian dictatorship (so was france, the netherland's for a long time, norway, sweden, denmark and even for a time italy as well as eira).

Now here is what happened, we all feared the Soviet system, we in the Socialist west as much as you in the Capitalist west and so one tool used to prevent the Commies from gaining ground in the west was to keep our poorest well off, to have our own and actually correct version of Socialism.

The PTB, the MONEY MEN then waited once the cold war ended and watched, they had now no reason to let our western socialism survive and set out to attack and undermine it at every level but the result is every bit as bad as Communism, heartless, inhumane run away soulless capitalism thet see's soulless man in charge of everything, David Ike was right about one thing they are Lizard's, cold heartless self serving empty men like shell's with more in common with sharks and snake's then humane human's, almost like a seperate species of idiot savant's whom would never and could survive without the rest of us doing the low level work for them, and we are supposed to worship them you must be kidding.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: amazing

OR we could rely on those of us who lived and worked through that LAST Cold War and remember how these types operated on EVERY country that was RUN on the socialist model,and how they ALL failed.As opposed to what the cell phone says.

The Cell Phone will lie. The last Cold War was brutal; as you say the socialist model is a beauty (as an ideal) but so vulnerable to corruption as not to be believed (when idealized). Its the *golden ticket* (sneakier than Communism) as resembles your huggable lovable Teddy Bear that bears a strange likeness/resemblance to the human Trotsky. This system is so easily manipulated by those in power; realizing at some point "Why share the wealth, lets keep it and transform into a Dictatorship". Christ Consciousness is not at work here.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

AND then like LAST time OUR asses(To include WOMEN in frontline combat now that they have no choice) will be sent to clean it up...again.
Only THIS time it would be HERE.
Because of a pornographer, Beatnik,Karouac would be so proud.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Thank you for reminding me. There were some experiments with socialism in America where coal miners had to meet a quota, lived in company housing, paid in company script and shopped at the company store...there is a hit song about you may remember.

And let us not forget the plethora of utopian towns that have been tried using socialism and full communism that have failed over the years. Early 1800's saw many come and go. Even more than the hippie communes that sprang up in the 1960's that also failed. Might be one or two still around, but the population is fairly low. Basically unsustainable really.


ETA: But I'll let you in on a secret. If I were to hit the lottery or come up with a multi-million dollar business idea, I would buy up around 150 acres of woods and build log cabins for friends and family to live on. The major rule being to work a job or work the land. Probably have a vegetable stand near the road with low prices for paying the utilities and property taxes. So a quasi-commune if you wanted to call it that. Oh and a good wood shop for furniture building since there are trees and cabins needing furnished and all. Maybe retail some.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: cavtrooper7

Actually you are wrong, we were on your side and our nation was Socialist most of the time, Labour Socialist, Communist is not Socialist it is totalitarian dictatorship (so was france, the netherland's for a long time, norway, sweden, denmark and even for a time italy as well as eira).

Now here is what happened, we all feared the Soviet system, we in the Socialist west as much as you in the Capitalist west and so one tool used to prevent the Commies from gaining ground in the west was to keep our poorest well off, to have our own and actually correct version of Socialism.

Excellent point.

I wish I could find the documentary I watched once, about the Cold War in the USA, in which they delved into the agenda the mass media and government decided to employ against Communism. They had the idea that implanting very extreme values upon individuality would act as a vaccination against Collectivist influence.

I still remember the morning cartoons which illustrated the dangers or being a sheep and following the herd, and the values of going your own way and thinking for yourself. Education and media all focused tightly on that.

With time, it began to be obvious there were problems with that- the nation began to lose it's solidarity and crumble apart.
People turned against one another, and narcissism began to get out of hand. The idea of not following anyone else and being your own master did keep them from following any communists, but it ALSO made us turn against our own leaders.
It made us less and less interested and active in politics, and leave the door open for the big corporations to get in bed with politicians.

The "culture wars" of the '80's were a product of this disintegration, but only the beginning. Humans continue to have a social animal part of them, so even as they focus hard on repressing them, they still find themselves uncontrollably drawn towards belongingness in some form. It's splintered down to herds of vegetarians, paleos, hetero, lgbt, feminists, mra's, churches, gamers, etc....

I saw a meme the other day-
"A woman on the bus sneezed, I said, "Bless you"
She said, "I have a boyfriend"
Someone behind her said, "I'm vegetarian".

Even when discussing things here, I face Americans trying to determine what herd each is in.

Here's what I see as the biggest problem that comes from the method of over-valuing individualism:

We know now that in psychology, there is the effect of taboo... the more a drive is repressed, the stronger it grows within. It becomes concentrated, it ferments, it becomes a huge force that will one day explode into a form much more destructive than it would have been if expressed or allowed to flow at it's source.

This is how extremes lead to extremes. This is how a country with a taboo about sex will have a parallel biggest porn industry in the world. This is how passive and submissive people one day pick up a gun and open fire on crowds.

This is how a country of individualists one day flips into communism. Keep going with the extreme individualism- you are driving the bus right into a new USSA.

a reply to: Bluesma

Your point's are better than mine and I can not fault them.

I just watched an RT report, I don't trust them any more than the BBC or CNN but they are another angle that is worth considering when trying to get an overall view of subjects though admitedly filtering there bias is just as difficult as filtering the other news providers bias.

So they mentioned this guy, he has been mentioned a few time's on ATS but I never really paid attention as he is not exactly the type of subject which interests me though he is a major player in many areas that do.

Now this is not a SOCIALIST yet he is said to back socialist causes, strange as many of the thing's he is doing are directly harmful to people.
en.wikipedia.org...
humanevents.com...
www.americanthinker.com...
selwynduke.typepad.com...
www.truthorfiction.com...

My point is this, he is a product of Captilasim, ungoverned and corrupt capitalist values and he seem's to have a megalomaniac thing going on there.

Then there is Bill Gate's, he is a clever clerk and salesman but take away his business acumen and he is not even a good computer programmer, he bought DOS the operating system that got him started for a few hundred from some poor guy who had invented it in his garage then he managed to get IBM interested as it was cheaper than the alternatives or making an operating system themselves, he even stole Job's idea's and ripped Apple off for window's but hey it's all good capitalism or is it, recently the Gate's Foundation a supposed philanthropist enterprise that provided medical aid and other serviced in the third world was found out by Doctors to have deliberatly contaminated batches of vaccines they supplied in Africa with chemicals designed to cause chemical induced sterility in the recipient's, that is enforced and illegal population control by a foreign power or rather individual for possibly eugenic's purposes.

I could go on and on about the supposed elite of the capitalist system but if you line them up against the evil communist leaders there is not much to distinguish them, they are all like the bad guy's from one of L'Ron Hubbard's trashy sci fi novel's.

They are not elected world leaders yet they control far more than many so called president's and prime minsters ever have, they even act against nation's and race's of people, cause international strife and harm and when one of them get's into an actual position of political power then the SH$% really hit's the fan.

At the end of the day all we are is the little guy's, the power players can make our lives good or bad at a whim as long as they are allowed to freely control the wealth of entire nation's and to monopolise through unregulated corporate capitalism.

Capitalism at the pre corporate level is fairly fair but more so to the utlra wealthy, it is like a race in which the slower runners get left behind and it is also the oldest Idiology BUT it is also the one that is perhaps the most guilty of causing massive human suffering even today, Slavery is a product of Capitalism, Work houses, Child Labour, Private prisons etc.

Socialism at the democratic level is fair to most but not all in particular the ultra wealthy find they have to pay more tax, at it's core it is about family with the nation being extended family under benign democratic governance, yes the parent in this case the government takes some of the fat kid's sweet's to give to the skinny kid but hey is'nt he fat enough.

Communism makes everyone poor as they then can own nothing with the warped idiology that they are the state and the state own's it in common which in practice it does not as it always end's up benefiting only members of the PARTY, as a system it is just as guilty as capitalism of mass human suffering but in a far more targeted and often police state driven manner.

Fascism was a twisted and warped idiology that was neither capitialist nor socialist but mixed aspect's of both around a core idiology of ultra nationalism expressing itself just like Communism in the formation of a definitely not free society and a police state, like communism members of the PARTY were the royalty under it's rule.

There is therefore only one of these systems which seem's to be fair and humane to my eye's, it is one that can never be forced as it requires democratic process but it also requires a population willing to speak there mind's so free speach is essential and also education.
And oddly it sound's just like the founding principles behind a great nation which has been hijacked by runaway capitalism and were those founding principles have been sabotaged time and again by the nouveau riche Elite that now form the royalty and elite of that nation having caused it's dream to fall and placed themselves as entrenched nobility there.

Now seriously which is therefore the more honest idiology (not those that implement it after there own interpretation but the Idiology itself).
For me it is Socialism of the Democratic variety, the worst part is that we Actually had it then it was destroyed by the Elite because it was in there way.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: amazing

OR we could rely on those of us who lived and worked through that LAST Cold War and remember how these types operated on EVERY country that was RUN on the socialist model,and how they ALL failed.
As opposed to what the cell phone says.

Or we could look and see that Stalin and Hitler and Mussolini are nothing like Sanders... or you could keep believing everything Fox News and Talk radio tell you and believe what THEY want you to believe.

To get a real sense of what Sanders is about or what modern socialism and socialist countries are... you just have to look at the Nordic countries and how they operate. How about that?

One of bernie's best buds is Noam Chomsky. You know, the guy that was all for Khmer Rouge. The same Chomsky who thinks the holocaust didn't happen. The same Chomsky who praised the attacks on pearl harbor. Keep telling yourself bernie is just a nice old guy who wants to give you some free candy if you'll hop in his car.

originally posted by: Dfairlite

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: amazing

OR we could rely on those of us who lived and worked through that LAST Cold War and remember how these types operated on EVERY country that was RUN on the socialist model,and how they ALL failed.
As opposed to what the cell phone says.

Or we could look and see that Stalin and Hitler and Mussolini are nothing like Sanders... or you could keep believing everything Fox News and Talk radio tell you and believe what THEY want you to believe.

To get a real sense of what Sanders is about or what modern socialism and socialist countries are... you just have to look at the Nordic countries and how they operate. How about that?

One of bernie's best buds is Noam Chomsky. You know, the guy that was all for Khmer Rouge. The same Chomsky who thinks the holocaust didn't happen. The same Chomsky who praised the attacks on pearl harbor. Keep telling yourself bernie is just a nice old guy who wants to give you some free candy if you'll hop in his car.

Give me a politician that doesn't have shady friends. Trump is best Friends with Hillary Clinton. How about that? Cruz is married to a wall street lawyer. Bush was friends with the Saudi Royal Family. We could do this for every president and every presidential candidate of the last 30 years. What's your point?

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: Dfairlite

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: amazing

OR we could rely on those of us who lived and worked through that LAST Cold War and remember how these types operated on EVERY country that was RUN on the socialist model,and how they ALL failed.
As opposed to what the cell phone says.

Or we could look and see that Stalin and Hitler and Mussolini are nothing like Sanders... or you could keep believing everything Fox News and Talk radio tell you and believe what THEY want you to believe.

To get a real sense of what Sanders is about or what modern socialism and socialist countries are... you just have to look at the Nordic countries and how they operate. How about that?

One of bernie's best buds is Noam Chomsky. You know, the guy that was all for Khmer Rouge. The same Chomsky who thinks the holocaust didn't happen. The same Chomsky who praised the attacks on pearl harbor. Keep telling yourself bernie is just a nice old guy who wants to give you some free candy if you'll hop in his car.

Give me a politician that doesn't have shady friends. Trump is best Friends with Hillary Clinton. How about that? Cruz is married to a wall street lawyer. Bush was friends with the Saudi Royal Family. We could do this for every president and every presidential candidate of the last 30 years. What's your point?

You'll get no argument from me. Politicians are all filthy liars. Bernie is no exception was my only point.

originally posted by: Azureblue

Well thing are going to have to change soon because robots will put 50+% of poeple of work in the next 10 years and the powers that be know it. but perhaps that's where the depopulation agenda comes in. eg vaccines, GMO, weaponised health and more and more war.

The catch is that the same people out of work are expected to buy what robots produce. Otherwise, businesses that use these robots don't earn.

a reply to: monkeyluv

yes, thats correct but it has never has dawned on them yet so I dont expect it will in the future either

The only one's who are truly afraid of socialism are those who occupy the fake eliteist positions capitalism provides in the current capitalist system.

Higher taxes for work won't matter when your job is filled by a robot and you have no job or money to buy what is produced by mechanization.

There are new aspects to the arrangement that it seems are too seldom mentioned or considered.

What is the most expensive part of your existence?, wouldn't it be nice if you didn't have to worry about being dropped from your insurance for getting sick, or going bankrupt whether you have insurance or not?.

The media is just entertainment, keep it in it's place, it means nothing unless you let it influence your thinking.

Amerikkaners are kinda dumb.

Either some fundamental change is in order one way, or the whole arrangement ends up going backward and we end up back in a feudalistic/ mercantile type of business/economic model.

I don't expect people to be anything other than they have proven themselves to be until now really....

Greedy and shallow minded subhuman zealots like those they call greedy and shallow minded subhuman zealots.

Hypocrites who know no better.

originally posted by: Dfairlite

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: amazing

OR we could rely on those of us who lived and worked through that LAST Cold War and remember how these types operated on EVERY country that was RUN on the socialist model,and how they ALL failed.
As opposed to what the cell phone says.

Or we could look and see that Stalin and Hitler and Mussolini are nothing like Sanders... or you could keep believing everything Fox News and Talk radio tell you and believe what THEY want you to believe.

To get a real sense of what Sanders is about or what modern socialism and socialist countries are... you just have to look at the Nordic countries and how they operate. How about that?

One of bernie's best buds is Noam Chomsky. You know, the guy that was all for Khmer Rouge. The same Chomsky who thinks the holocaust didn't happen. The same Chomsky who praised the attacks on pearl harbor. Keep telling yourself bernie is just a nice old guy who wants to give you some free candy if you'll hop in his car.

chomsky was never a holocaust denier, he defend a guys freedom of speech to say it, but never endorsed it.

originally posted by: Azureblue
a reply to: monkeyluv

yes, thats correct but it has never has dawned on them yet so I dont expect it will in the future either

It will when sales go down.