Why do people get drawn into alternative medicines?

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Ghost147

I've not heard about those cures that got released though (don't suppose you have a link or anything?).

I'll do some digging and see if I can find them

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Ghost147
While I get what you're saying, I have to disagree. If there was a big conspiracy around big pharma, why, in the UK, is healthcare free? And it's not just the UK, other countries have free healthcare. Surely if it was about money then everywhere would have paid for healthcare?

There's universal healthcare in Canada too. The only thing is, it's not the 'government' paying for these things, it's the peoples taxes.

Theoretically speaking, it could work just like it does for the banks, buying and using specific, or even the majority of politicians to influence virtually everything within our respective societies.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Ghost147
That's the reason I find the "big pharma making money" argument a bit too hard to swallow.

When I was younger, I had quite severe asthma. I had since grown out of it through a healthy diet and excessive exerciser. However, when I met my wife, she owned a cat, and I was at that time allergic to it to some degree, causing mild asthma to surface again.

I went to my doctor who barely looked at the condition and circumstances and just handed me this inhaler and told me to take it 4 times a day like clockwork, and also whenever I felt short of breath. After two days of using it my asthma returned in full force, but was more severe than it ever was. It was so bad that I couldn't get up a flight of stairs without needing to use the inhaler.

I immediately looked up the inhaler online, and thousands of other people had experienced the same thing.

So I looked up the side effects. The inhaler, a device used to treat asthma, had a strong likelihood of causing severe asthma. After two days of use I threw it away, told the doctor, which he stated he has never heard of that occurring, and it took about 4 months for me to return back to where I was before using it.

The inhalers cost $120 each, which is $70 over what they used to when I was a child.
Obviously this is just a single case, but it does in fact show just how easy it would be for big pharma to simply keep people 'buying their products'.

a reply to: Ghost147

Cheers for digging

I think where the conspiracy stems from is actually just bad doctors. Your case sounds more like that and so do so many others.

I will admit, you do see the doctors that push the latest drug etc. Are they on commission or something? Maybe, but I don't know for sure.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
Yet places like the UK (where I am) has free healthcare so if a cancer cure was found there would be less spending from the government and more money for your elites.

See the logical flaw?

I don't see how that has anything to do with the quote with which I agreed.

I do, however, see the logical flaw in any citizen of any country calling socialized healthcare "free." But I don't want to go off on that tangent, as it's off-topic.

Ksihkehe is only partially correct. Cancer is not a desease per se. Everybody has the potencial to develop cancer. All cancer is is normal body cells running amok. By the same token Ksihkehe is wrong, there are not numerical types of cancer.
There are numerical types of cells that mutate to form cancerous cells and in doing so creates different problems in treating cancer. ie. brain cancer has to be treated differently than bowel cancer. Yes both can be opperated on but non-evasive treatment is totally different and just that is the stumbling block for a one off cure all treatment.
The main problem with the mainstream treatment like chemo is that it blitzes the whole body and is not target specific.
Let me make this really clear for you. If you have a headache and you take a painkiller and it "cures "your headache the majority of people will believe that it cured their headache specifically. NO. Firstly, how does the pill know you only have pain in your head, secondly how does the said pill only target the headache. It doesn't it blitzes your whole system.
The biggest block people have in trying alternatives is the medical profession itself and if any of you pooh pooh this I'll call you liars. People have been raised to believe and trust the medical people so are very loathe to go against it, but the killer blow comes (and I would say everybody has come across this) when you've been diagnosed with cancer and are being lined up for conventional treatment then say to your doctor"I want to try an alternative" 99.9% of the medical profession will say "if you go down that road we wash our hands of you" and will not treat you thereafter. That in itself frightens people from trying any alternatives. WHETHER THEY WORK OR NOT.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Ghost147
I will admit, you do see the doctors that push the latest drug etc. Are they on commission or something? Maybe, but I don't know for sure.

You should watch the movie Side Effects. I don't recall if it was based on a true story or not, but it certainly would represent how such a conspiracy could occur

originally posted by: Ghost147

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: Ghost147
I will admit, you do see the doctors that push the latest drug etc. Are they on commission or something? Maybe, but I don't know for sure.

You should watch the movie Side Effects. I don't recall if it was based on a true story or not, but it certainly would represent how such a conspiracy could occur

I'll check it out, thanks.

A nutritional diet, exercise, and stress management play a huge role in fighting cancer. There are nutritional products that actually help our bodies heal from pain and disease. I have my own personal experiences with taking products that help my body heal, and I personally know two people who are still alive after cancer- One of the people had stage 4 cancer.

originally posted by: Ksihkehe
a reply to: elementalgrove

I'm not going to argue ad nauseam. If you want to believe that baking soda, apple cider vinegar, and organic vegetables, will cure cancer that's fine. I made my point so that people who were suffering had another view.

Keep going with whatever it is you believe. If nothing else I believe in people making their own decisions about their medical treatment.

Kshikehe, I would like to apologize for my combative tone.

For years I spent researching the interests behind the banks, energy, education, and military industries. I never really payed attention to food nor medicine. When I finally did look into and I found the same eugenicists that have corrupted so much of the world I have grown to know I became extremely suspect of everything coming from the medical/food scientific industries. This has not changed and has only been reinforced the more that I have looked into it.

I have gone through and seen many people fall victim to what I believe to be a horrific conspiracy of a very ingenious proportion. In the same way the energy/banks have spread globally and effected the educational systems. The flexnor report sealed the deal in my book. I have admittedly become jaded due to the treatment of dear family members by what I coin to be pharmaceutical representatives known as doctors.

I agree 100% in people being left to their own devices when it comes to the medical treatment they seek out, but due to my stance, I take the conspiracy angle. I believe the human body to be nothing short of miraculous and when advising people upon what I have learned from diet and holistic methods of healing it is always in the context of what I would personally do.

In this world of disinformation and other forms of deception it is upon each of us individually to research the information and come to our own decision through our level of critical thinking. I respect your view and never meant to come across as though I do not.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Mainstream drugs/treatments all stem from natural resources somewhere.

This whole "can't make any money from cannabis" is crap too. America has shops selling it with a prescription. If you google CBD oil you'll see companies are trying to synthesise it so they can sell it.

they can make money, they cant patent it. big difference.
mainstream drugs might stem from it, but what is actually in it. its not all natural. its not stuff you would find growing naturally. its a man made cocktail.

at the moment in America its either grow or sell, not both. from my understanding.
they will make money just not enough compared to current treatments.

it seems a lot of people are advising cannabis

is good, but you are dismissing it and arguing against it. not really much more we can do

a reply to: TerryDon79

its not free you pay for it via your NI contributions

a reply to: elementalgrove

I'm sorry too. I get agitated, which I shouldn't, when I see views that I see as polarized entirely against modern medicine. The fact is people need to really objectively look at their situation.

I'm actually very supportive of food and herbs as medicine. I've been studying medicinal and edible wild plants for over a decade. I took a field seminar on wild medicinals with Dr. James Duke. If you've not heard of him you should look up his work. He also started an ethnobotanical database on the contents of wild plants. He has also authored several books. If we look at our every day food as medicine then we can really have a positive impact on our health.

What upsets me is when I see claims that, after a lifetime of ignoring all the positive effects of natural remedies, a magic bullet is somehow going to counteract years of neglect. If you were to maintain a diet rich in powerful and natural cancer-fighters you might avoid cancer, but when you reach a certain point modern and poisonous medicine might be your only choice. The medicine from natural sources is quite potent, but it usually takes time for it to work.

I understand what makes you angry about modern medicine too. The fact is that in many cases it simply prolongs life at the cost of great suffering. My frustration should not be for you or others who are rightly angered by this. I think both of us should really be angry at the fact that, through early education and prevention, the medical community could prevent the need for using toxic treatment like chemo. If we pushed for healthy diets and use of more cancer-fighting foods we could prevent much of this.

I'm glad you were big enough to come out and say you were sorry. I was dreading looking at the reply because, if not for you being the bigger person, this could have continued with me being an ass. It's funny how emotion can truly warp a message. My message is really for using herbs and foods to prevent cancer, but I got agitated and my message was completely lost in the responses. Thank you for that, it's not a common thing and is much appreciated.

a reply to: TerryDon79

I suspect that BELIEF in alternative treatments is what actually benefits the person using them to help with symptoms or curing ailments. I have a friend that swears by products such as Bach's Flower Remedies and she claims they work (probably because she believes they do). I have tried several of these so called remedies with absolutely no (noticeable) effects. The placebo effect probably doesn't work if you know that what you are taking will not actually do anything...

Link to scientific paper showing no efficacy with Bach flower extract product: Swiss Medical Weekly Article

Well seeing as conventional cancer treatment is no longer available I'm willing to give anything a go. I had a choice to try more chemo, but I've tried the same chemo about 4 times now over 14 years and it's just not working anymore, so I didn't give it another go, because last time I did it the Tumor still grew and it made me feel awful, I didn't speak to anyone for about 6-9 months. Believe me if I was offered a traditional option I hadn't tried before, I would have jumped all over it. I still wait in hope they may find something I can try, but they haven't. So I guess you go for anything that might help out of desperation, that's why the snake oil salesmen are so evil, preying on the desperation of the dying. I need to work on accepting despite remaining hopeful of a miracle

a reply to: woodwardjnr

I can understand that, I really can. If modern medical has stopped being effective, where's there harm in trying alternatives? I agree. There isn't any.

What I don't agree with, is shunning modern medicine in favour of alternates without trying. Some people have the mentality of "it won't work, so why try?" I don't get it.

My wife has polyps that have turned cancerous. She's tried quite a few alternatives in conjunction with modern medicine. Especially the ones that help with sickness as she gets really ill with chemo.

I don't know. I just don't get why people would try something some guy on the internet says works, over modern medicine.

a reply to: TerryDon79 no I'm in total agreement. The traditional route kept me going for 9 years with a grade 4 GBM brain tumour normally an 18 month prognosis. I was diagnosed with that in 2007. So I'm happy with the choices I made at the time. I certainly wouldn't be here if I'd have shunned these options. I never felt like I was a way of making cash for big pharma or my oncologists. I find that a little bit offensive given the amount of time and quality of care I received on the nhs. I always felt like people had my best interests at heart and were determined to keep me alive, not profit from my struggle

a reply to: woodwardjnr

Have you looked at the studies they're doing in Germany with brain tumours? I can't remember who told me about it on here, but they inject a metal into it to shrink them. Once they have shrunk it makes them operable instead of not.

I'm in the UK too and the amount of meds my Mrs has had, plus chemo, radiotherapy, operations and whatnot, make the "big pharma are doing it for the money" argument that some people use, a bit flawed.

a reply to: TerryDon79
Firstly sorry to hear your family fighting this

Most people turn to alternative medicine for minor illness because they believe its safe. For some reason people believe herbs cant damage you because they are "all natural". As someone who got mild kidney damage from taking Chinese herbs to cure acne in my teens you can probably guess that illusion no longer sits with me.

My sister is a doctor and she has met many patents who took herbs for health (they weren't even sick) and ended up with renal failure instead.

I personally don't believe they want to cure cancer, too much money to be made by selling expensive drug. I do believe Cancer charity's are a scam therefore and despite loosing my aunt to this I would rather donate to another charity' seriously they have soo much money they cant even begin spend it.

A few things about cancer

Cancer cells unlike normal cells can only use glucose as a fuel and they consume 7 times as much glucose as a normal cell. Normal cells can use ketones and glucose as fuel therefore it is a good idea to avoid fast crabs and go on a ketonegenic diet to starve the cancer cells of the glucose they desperately need.

Cancer cells produce their energy by fermentation of glucose in the absence of Oxygen. Cancer cells hate Oxygen rich environments. In addition cancer cells produce lactic acid as a waste product instead of CO2 which normal cells produce. The result is that they acidify the environment which causes a chain reaction. Alkalising the blood will increase oxygen levels and generally make the environment less conducive to the replication of cancer cells.

Acidification causes inflammation and pain, loading up on natural anti-inflammatorys can help with this.

Acid rich environments and free radicals both have something in common they strip electrons off cells creating positive charge. Antioxidants donate electrons making the environment more negative.

In short I would go on a ketogenic diet, eat as many natural antioxidants and anti-inflammatory I could get down my neck and alkalise my blood.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: woodwardjnr

Have you looked at the studies they're doing in Germany with brain tumours? I can't remember who told me about it on here, but they inject a metal into it to shrink them. Once they have shrunk it makes them operable instead of not.

I'm in the UK too and the amount of meds my Mrs has had, plus chemo, radiotherapy, operations and whatnot, make the "big pharma are doing it for the money" argument that some people use, a bit flawed.

Maybe something like this: www.dailymail.co.uk...

a reply to: zinc12

In reply to your first post.

If what you're saying would be a cure, then deep sea divers wouldn't get cancer. They do.

Also, if "big pharma" we're just in it for the money, how come medical science has progressed and cured other ailments in the last 100 years? More people get broken bones than cancer, but I don't see how they're making a massive amount of money by casting an arm or a leg.

In reply to your second post.

No. That's magnets and they don't work against cancer as there are no magnetic metals in the cancerous cells. I was on about actual studies and medical procedures, not an article in a rag newspaper.