Bernie Sanders’s single-payer plan isn’t a plan at all

a reply to: xuenchen

That's the whole point though, isn't it?

Obama came into power promising a universal healthcare system and the 'American' people voted him is as President... So I'm obviously not blaming Americans as a whole!

It was the Republicans and there hardcore supporters who prevented universal healthcare from coming into effect. They forced Obama's hand to create Obamacare!

btw, Obamacare hasn't failed yet, since the policy still stands and was simply designed as a precursor to universal healthcare... It's simply a long term method to force the republicans to stop playing petty party politics and do the right thing by the American people.

Obama will probably go down in history as an American icon because of it.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Not quite.

The Public Option was killed off by Democrats.

Republicans had zero to do with any of it.

But they enjoyed watching the show.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Subaeruginosa
The Public Option was killed off by Democrats.

So you would obviously claim, but Obama got his second term... How does that reality fit in with your logic of his supporters going against Obama and his policies?

a reply to: ketsuko

But there are no cost controls on this market.

The government hasn 't regulated costs outside of Medicare and Medicaid for decades. Obamacare only created the exchanges and forced millions of people to sign up for private insurance.

This means it was a hand out to the corporation. And you expect them to turn around and fix it for you if we just left government out of it entirely?

Those are some mighty big rose colored glasses. If you can't achieve some level of proper pricing in the current system, then single payer is the only way to go, outside of legislating the cost of healthcare for private companies that offer it.

And I imagine that would be seen as a bigger government faux pas, then just creating a single payer system.

~Tenth

a reply to: xuenchen

No Republicans in Congress voted in favor.

100% Democrat and it still failed.

ACA was just a carbon copy of the same plan put forth by a Republican Congress in the 90's and succesfully implemented by Romney in his own state. It only became a 'liberal' piece of legislation when it was introduced by Obama.

Had George W proposed the same plan, conservatives would have been drooling at the mouth to vote yes.

~Tenth

a reply to: ketsuko

Bernie’s biggest problem is that he won’t get this plan through congress.

Also, Bernie’s problem is that this country will never be socialist any time soon because it would likely cause another civil war.

People are too stupid in America to change that fast but at least Bernie’s trying.

The good thing about Bernie is that he did admit he can't do anything without a compliant congress and population

The solution and the problem was on the table and mentioned in the Sunday night debate.

That the candidates and voters miss it is due big government ideology blinding them.

That solution is to rescind all laws protecting big pharma, hospitol, insurance and medical corporation legislation making these entities immune from nearly all monopoly, consumer protection and laws dealing with price fixing and collusion.

I have seen estimates claiming 80% cost reduction were this done. There would be no need for massive taxes or government programs, Normal people could afford costs.

On the Republican side thank their lack of action on influence from the same folks.

Obamacare and any other plan, even single payer still leaves the same entities making a killing on healthcare if those immunities from law are not removed.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Why would single payer be the only way to go?

Why not remove government from the system? If government isn't the major driver of cost because it's the main customer with the deepest pockets, then prices have to come down. A business without customers ceases to exist.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

He implemented it, but whether or not it was actually a success is something debatable. Massachusetts was having some massive problems with it and looked to Obamacare to bail them out of it hoping the larger system would solve the cost issues.

It didn't.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
reply to: xuenchen

So you would obviously claim, but Obama got his second term... How does that reality fit in with your logic of his supporters going against Obama and his policies?

Excellent example of the blind leading the blind.

All while Republicans gained ground in Congress in 2010, 2012, 2014

The election system is strange isn't it.

Wait till you see the 2016 election night results !!!!!

a reply to: tothetenthpower

There are some differences but not many of any impact.

But remember, the "Republican" plan(s) never went to legislative vote at all.

In fact, they seemed to abandon it.

Romney.Care in Mass was similar, but passed by an ultra-Democrat State legislature.

a reply to: ketsuko

$800 hammers were not acceptable in defense department, neither should $40,000 snake venom be acceptable in healthcare.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

And that's why so many insurers like United Healthcare are getting out of the Obamacare market.

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
reply to: xuenchen

So you would obviously claim, but Obama got his second term... How does that reality fit in with your logic of his supporters going against Obama and his policies?

All while Republicans gained ground in Congress in 2010, 2012, 2014

Is that what you mean about the blind leading the blind?

Wait till you see the 2016 election night results !!!!!

Oh, I don't know if I can wait. But what do you think? I'm thinking a democrat that supports gun regulations and universal healthcare?

America is growing up on ya mate... There's nothing you can do to stop the tide of logic and reason...

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Leftists are many things, but perveyors of logic and reason are not strong with them.

Neither is math.

All of which are weak with Bernie's plan. Even Klein admits as much.

What *IS* Bernie's plan anyway?

a reply to: ketsuko

Because historically, the only well rounded health care systems combine both a single payer and private insurers in a hybrid system.

The ACA was a very poor attempt at fooling people into thinking that's what it was. Look at any other industrialized nation that has good healthy citizens and you'll find the majority have NHS systems in place that take advantage of price controls while allowing the free market to reign in the elective side of things.

Also, having the government relatively in charge of it, means they are accountable, and can actually fix things that are broken when they occur. Meddling in the private market is not a good idea.

Meddling in your own government program is fine because it's expected. The reason medicare and medicaid is broke is not only due to people leaving IOU's in the account, it's also because the cost of healthcare has blow up year over year due to a number of factors.

And the amount of people paying into the system is less and less as it's fed only by payroll deductions, which people on wall street for example or people with large number of assets don't get. So they don't pay into it.

There's trillions of dollars floating around that doesn't go towards the social services as it should.

Like I said, it is a regulation problem. The market will do whatever it can to get as much profit as it can, regardless of outcome, because the main motivation is money.

That has to be removed from the equation if we are to have a proper health care system in the United States.

~Tenth

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: tothetenthpower

There are some differences but not many of any impact.

But remember, the "Republican" plan(s) never went to legislative vote at all.

In fact, they seemed to abandon it.

Romney.Care in Mass was similar, but passed by an ultra-Democrat State legislature.

Yeah the same happened just in reverse lol I get that part, I was just pointing out the partisantry of it all.

The worst part is single payer has a great track record of polling VERY well with almost everybody, except for the rich, the insurance companies and poor republicans/liberals who don't understand economics.

~Tenth

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
Oh, I don't know if I can wait. But what do you think? I'm thinking a democrat that supports gun regulations and universal healthcare?
America is growing up on ya mate... There's nothing you can do to stop the tide of logic and reason...

What you are referring to is not logic and reason. It is emotion and immaturity. It is feeling. It is not reality.