A public redress of greviences is the proper course of action in Oregon...

a reply to: MrSpad

Exactly, as far as the government cares, they are camping...with a cause.

The Obama Administration is assessing all the political advantages.

a reply to: onequestion

Why hasn't the federal government publicly come forward with a message that try's to establish a clear line of communication to peacefully resolve this situation?

I hate to say it... I hate to even think it... again... but more and more I'm believing that this is a set up by the Feds, especially after reading this thread.

And even if it's not, the bottom line is that it is the federal government's bad behavior which created this conflict and confrontation, and has made it impossible for the people to seek a redress of their grievances. I believe it was JFK who said that those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable.

originally posted by: onequestion
I have a question for you...

Why hasn't the federal government publicly come forward with a message that try's to establish a clear line of communication to peacefully resolve this situation?

Wouldn't that be the proper course of action?

In fact they are doing the exact opposite. They secretly mobilizing a tactical unit and filing charges against them rather than trying to resolve the situation with a redress of greviences.

If you can't see what's happening here your blinders are on.

because the gov wants an armed conflict, definitely Obama does, this plays right in with this gun control speech yesterday....

We have a group of people, though armed, who have hurt no one, destroyed nothing, taken no hostages, damaged nothing.....and the gov is mobilizing to escalate this into a firefight....

We had Ferguson, and Baltimore where MOBS, HUNDREDS, of people were burning buildings, cars, and property, ransacking businesses and stealing property and goods, targeting police and their property, and the president didnt do this.....

Explain to me why a small group of people hold up in the middle of no where in a building who have done NONE of the above, are more of a threat then that?

That said i absolutely do NOT agree with how these people decided to go about bringing attention to their cause....

But the motives, and clear agenda of the Gov should be as clear as ever to anyone with the eyes to see....

a reply to: onequestion

Why exactly should the federal government bow down to their threats of violence? And actually what the feds are doing is nothing. I don't know where you got this information about the feds secretly getting ready to take them out or secretly filing charges because everything I've read has shown that the feds aren't interesting in doing anything to them at this point and are just content with letting them sit there and fume.

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: onequestion

Why?

Oh trust me the government will trump up a bunch of charges once whoever is left is in custody.

They won't let this go the survivors will face serious charges.

They should start with the perpetrators of the Nevada standoff first then, because they still haven't gotten around to filing charges against them for that yet.

Governments specialize in settling disputes by the use of force against the people they govern.

If these legal fictions cannot settle an issue legally without force to their satisfaction, they will settle the issue with force as an example to others who may defy their supposed authority in the future.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: onequestion

Why exactly should the federal government bow down to their threats of violence? And actually what the feds are doing is nothing. I don't know where you got this information about the feds secretly getting ready to take them out or secretly filing charges because everything I've read has shown that the feds aren't interesting in doing anything to them at this point and are just content with letting them sit there and fume.

a simple google search will show you that they are mobilizing, or getting ready to mobilize force

No offense intended but the more threads i see you comment on the more I feel like you are pro totalitarian , heavy handed regime....

Very pro government regardless of the situation.....

These people may not have approached this the right way , but they have a legitimate grievance

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

a simple google search will show you that they are mobilizing, or getting ready to mobilize force

Really?

Law enforcement agencies announce no plans to tackle Oregon militia during second day in federal building

No offense intended but the more threads i see you comment on the more I feel like you are pro totalitarian , heavy handed regime....

No offense, but leave me out of these discussions and stick to the issues. Though speaking about me and what you THINK I believe or stand for just tells me that you don't have any proper rebuttals so have to resort to idiotic ad hominems based on your negative bias of me.

Very pro government regardless of the situation.....

These people may not have approached this the right way , but they have a legitimate grievance

No they don't. We already had this conversation yesterday.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

No offense, but leave me out of these discussions and stick to the issues. Though speaking about me and what you THINK I believe or stand for just tells me that you don't have any proper rebuttals so have to resort to idiotic ad hominems based on your negative bias of me.

Oooo did i hit a nerve? got a little nasty there!

i have presented plenty of proper rebuttals to the situation as have many others, you just refuse to to acknowledge them,

Although I do like the fact that you called me idiotic while making a statement about adhominems lol the irony is delicious

No they don't. We already had this conversation yesterday.

Yes they do, of course they do, besides trying to send them back to jail after time has been served, they also have the legitimate complaint about BLM over reach, you might not understand that because you might not live in an area where your land comes into direct contact with BLM land....

The BLM has a long history of violating the rights of property owners when the BLM decides they either want the land your on, or they want to do something with BLM land that they cant because your land adjoins them...

There is a laundry list of families the gov has used heavy handed tactics to force them off their land....

Again maybe you should actually read up on that issue....

IT IS a legitimate grievance whether its YOUR problem or not

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I thought it perfectly captured the contrast. The Oregon "terrorists" are just sitting there. In Baltimore and Ferguson the citizens were rioting. Get back to us when the guys in Oregon start breaking #. So far, it's a simple matter of civil disobedience that the hard left would dearly love to re-frame in order to further push a Black Lives Matter narrative.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: Krazysh0t
awww another personal attack by someone complaining about personal attacks.....all I did was say i thought you were pro heavy handed gov, youve taken to actual personal attacks bad form man bad form

Are you being purposely obtuse here? If you can't tell the difference between calling a choice of words idiotic and calling you idiotic, then you are a lost cause. Though, I'm pretty sure you are just being purposely obtuse here because you think you've made me angry and are trying to egg me on into a T&C violation.

Weird because my definition was copied straight from the actual websters definition, so webster is wrong?

You haven't produced evidence of a second trial taking place yet. That was a request you refused to address from our conversation yesterday.

Your opinion doesnt constitute fact.....and over 100 instances of families being forced off their land or having it taken by force by the BLM says youre wrong....again try research.....

Research which you either haven't done or refuse to reproduce.

except its accurate....

HAHAHAHAHA! Defending a facebook meme. Good show mate, you are full of laughs for me. Great "research" you got going on there. What's next you going to link me to a bunch of anecdotes and try to pass it off as statistical evidence?

And i havent dropped the Point about the feds.....google it...

I did...? Where do you think I got that link from?

Lemme guess youre going to say "Links" right?

again try doing some research, im not here to spoon feed you everything, im not ABC news

How about you google your own claims for once? I humored you, but I usually don't do other people's research for their claims for them. Though you are really driving home my opinion that you haven't done any real research on the matter.

PS: And ellipses are only three periods long and you really shouldn't over use them.

originally posted by: onequestion
I have a question for you...

Why hasn't the federal government publicly come forward with a message that try's to establish a clear line of communication to peacefully resolve this situation?

Wouldn't that be the proper course of action?

In fact they are doing the exact opposite. They secretly mobilizing a tactical unit and filing charges against them rather than trying to resolve the situation with a redress of greviences.

If you can't see what's happening here your blinders are on.

If those armed, self proclaimed "patriots" were ever interested in a peaceful resolution of grievances, they sure as hell have funny way of showing it.

They have broken the law and every single one of them should be criminally charged.

I would surround and isolate the compound, cut off all power, water, Internet access and all communication with anyone other than law enforcement negotiators.

I would instruct the occupiers to lay down their weapons and surrender themselves for arrest by LEOs.

I would NOT fire upon them unless they fired on law enforcement first, but it should be perfectly clear that every one of them will surrender their weapons and be criminally charged for their actions.

The first time one of them fired a shot at law enforcement, I'd treat them like the big, brave revolutionist they think they are and bury them with overwhelming firepower.

When someone is interested in achieving a peaceful resolution to their grievances, they don't start the process with an armed takeover of federal property and threaten violence if opposed. Give me a break!

originally posted by: HoldMyBeer
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I thought it perfectly captured the contrast. The Oregon "terrorists" are just sitting there. In Baltimore and Ferguson the citizens were rioting. Get back to us when the guys in Oregon start breaking #. So far, it's a simple matter of civil disobedience that the hard left would dearly love to re-frame in order to further push a Black Lives Matter narrative.

whats more glaring is the fact that the left are so in favor of having these people dealt with harshly by the gov, while they screamed bloody murder when the police had riot gear and personnel vehicles lined on site when the riots were going on, and the police didnt do anything but stand by and watch...

Yet THEN the gov was out of control in how they approached it, and people were actually getting HURT and destroying things....

Again the agenda from the left and from the gov is clear, paint the narrative....

originally posted by: HoldMyBeer
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I thought it perfectly captured the contrast. The Oregon "terrorists" are just sitting there. In Baltimore and Ferguson the citizens were rioting. Get back to us when the guys in Oregon start breaking #. So far, it's a simple matter of civil disobedience that the hard left would dearly love to re-frame in order to further push a Black Lives Matter narrative.

Yes, that is what memes are designed to do. Take a small and simple snapshot of a large and complicated situation and compare them to something (usually uncomparable) in such a way to confirm someone's confirmation bias. Glad you affirmed that they still work.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: HoldMyBeer
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I thought it perfectly captured the contrast. The Oregon "terrorists" are just sitting there. In Baltimore and Ferguson the citizens were rioting. Get back to us when the guys in Oregon start breaking #. So far, it's a simple matter of civil disobedience that the hard left would dearly love to re-frame in order to further push a Black Lives Matter narrative.

whats more glaring is the fact that the left are so in favor of having these people dealt with harshly by the gov, while they screamed bloody murder when the police had riot gear and personnel vehicles lined on site when the riots were going on, and the police didnt do anything but stand by and watch...

Yet THEN the gov was out of control in how they approached it, and people were actually getting HURT and destroying things....

Again the agenda from the left and from the gov is clear, paint the narrative....

What's interesting is you pretending to know how I reacted to the events that went on in Baltimore and Ferguson.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: HoldMyBeer
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I thought it perfectly captured the contrast. The Oregon "terrorists" are just sitting there. In Baltimore and Ferguson the citizens were rioting. Get back to us when the guys in Oregon start breaking #. So far, it's a simple matter of civil disobedience that the hard left would dearly love to re-frame in order to further push a Black Lives Matter narrative.

whats more glaring is the fact that the left are so in favor of having these people dealt with harshly by the gov, while they screamed bloody murder when the police had riot gear and personnel vehicles lined on site when the riots were going on, and the police didnt do anything but stand by and watch...

Yet THEN the gov was out of control in how they approached it, and people were actually getting HURT and destroying things....

Again the agenda from the left and from the gov is clear, paint the narrative....

What's interesting is you pretending to know how I reacted to the events that went on in Baltimore and Ferguson.

whats even more interesting is that your name wasnt in this post at all....especially since I was addressing a post that was speaking in general terms

Its not all about YOU contrary to what you may believe....

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Well a picture is worth a thousand words, even if you don't like what it says.

And the other member's use of a meme to clarify his point is more relevant to this topic than simply reducing the conversation to personal attacks and rhetorical tricks. It's okay to be wrong sometimes.