Anti-Government Extremist Groups Are A Uniquely American Problem

a reply to: Krazysh0t


I appreciate you not throwing out the baby with the bath water but Huffs not going to give a fair shake or a rounded respectable look at this issue.

And let us not be fooled.....the hard left in this country sees many as enemies based ideology primarily and does not give a hoot about private property, domestic tranquility ect, ect. The hard left knows it needs to own the threat of force and many such other "direct action" political tactics. Was it just last week that an organized group shut down LA international airport? Well they are never going to be called terrorists.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: 200Plus

I'd say that taking up arms against the government just because a political party you disagree with is in office is a ridiculous notion. And no, Hillary won't ever label Republicans as terrorists...

Like I pointed out on page 1, all the notorious freedom stealing laws (like the Patriot Act) came about under a Republican President. Where were all the "Patriot" groups taking up arms against the government then?

Dylan Ratigan (left winger/Democrat) calls up armed revolution.

is it wrong for these people to stand up to a foreign organization in our country trying to control our lands?

look up BLM, they are a foreign corporation operating in America. they are not an official arm of the government anymore than blackwater was officially government.

originally posted by: Semicollegiate
a reply to: Krazysh0t

The gov or more accurately, the plutocrats, were golden until the Bankster Bailout. The housing bubble kept many people on the bandwagon and war is always the health of the state. War time govs always have a lot more judicial and material power.

Are you aware that the economy is actually doing better right now than it was during the housing bubble?
America Is Better Off Today Than Six Years Ago!

Until the Bankster Bailout, any dissent could have been called terrorism.

Actually you were called unamerican. Remember this?

The Republican Party has steadily lost republicans since Reagan's concessions to the CFR in the 80's. As you may have noticed, the Republicans have passed the Democratic Party's budgetr wish list and the Tea Party is still suffering from the IRS attention.

So the militia movement is not Republican or Racist. It tends to grow in bad economic times. Like Canadians in show biz and Minorities in professional sports, people choose to live through militias when the other economic avenues are poor or boring or heading that way.

I didn't say it was either Republican OR racist. I pointed out some trends and asked people to weigh in on what they thought while PURPOSELY withholding my opinion.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Being lawyered up is evidence of a plan. Of course i don't know what that plan is.

I can see your bias by the labels you put on these people, so i know what your plan is. To be loud and obnoxious.

Thanks for the ad hominem. I appreciate it. It really shows your true character.

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Krazysh0t


I appreciate you not throwing out the baby with the bath water but Huffs not going to give a fair shake or a rounded respectable look at this issue.

And let us not be fooled.....the hard left in this country sees many as enemies based ideology primarily and does not give a hoot about private property, domestic tranquility ect, ect. The hard left knows it needs to own the threat of force and many such other "direct action" political tactics. Was it just last week that an organized group shut down LA international airport? Well they are never going to be called terrorists.

I don't care about the left or the hard left as it pertains to this thread. I care about the very REAL act of domestic terrorism occurring in our backyard because a bunch of yahoos wrongly think they are being wronged by the government.

originally posted by: letscit
is it wrong for these people to stand up to a foreign organization in our country trying to control our lands?

look up BLM, they are a foreign corporation operating in America. they are not an official arm of the government anymore than blackwater was officially government.

What are you talking about?

a reply to: TheBulk

Not sure about the relevance here. I never claimed that there aren't people on the left willing to fight armed revolutions. I just said that the trends show that more people are willing to do it while the left is in office while the occurrence of such things while the right is in office is low. Why are you so desperately trying to drag me into a partisan mud slinging contest? I didn't even use either the words Republican or Democrat in any of my posts up until this one.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: TheBulk

Not sure about the relevance here. I never claimed that there aren't people on the left willing to fight armed revolutions. I just said that the trends show that more people are willing to do it while the left is in office while the occurrence of such things while the right is in office is low. Why are you so desperately trying to drag me into a partisan mud slinging contest? I didn't even use either the words Republican or Democrat in any of my posts up until this one.

From your OP:

"It's especially bad with Obama. Now I'm not necessarily trying to start a partisan mud slinging fest, but that graph is rather disturbing. Why is it that when a Democrat is in office, extremists decide the government is coming to destroy their lives, but while a Republican is in office, this isn't a factor? I have my suspicions, but like I said I'm not trying to turn this into a partisan mud slinging contest."
....

You have used the terms "republican and democrat" you stating that you are not trying to start a partisan mud slinging fest,does not make it so. In fact I think you are poorly covering your bases by stating that, as something you can fall back on if in a losing debate, however contradictory it is to your OP and your stance. The amount of reality denial going on here is concerning.

a reply to: TechniXcality

Ok you got me there, I forgot about that. Though if you read that as is, you'll see that I am just asking a question that pops up as it pertains to the data I was presenting. Do you disagree that anti-establishment groups are higher when the left is in office? Do you have any data that conflicts with the data I presented?

See, I care about data. Not emotions or political rhetoric. It isn't my fault if the data shows a partisan trend. Though your insistence on treating me rudely throughout the thread just because we don't have the same opinion about these losers in Oregon has been thoroughly noted by myself. Heck, what was the point of your post there anyways, so you can point out and go, "HAHA You were wrong!"? Childish...

The term "patriot' is practically meaningless anymore. It used to define those that adhered to the ideology explained by our masonic friend, but in the late 80's and early 90's it began to take on a completely different meaning. It is now used to define right-wingers that follow a specific dogma when it comes to country, god and guns.

One of the people that played a huge role in the "patriot movement" was William Cooper. He was a big voice to many people, especially in the west/southwest. His ideas on the government, the militias, religion and firearms helped shape the modern "militia" movements of the time and even today. Of course, he also added a conspiratorial aspect to the entire thing and that is popular among the right-wing militia types as well. They believe in a conspiracy in which the government is coming for them.

Of course, Cooper tried to stage his own form of protest against the government and he paid for it with his life.

The militias themselves are a joke. They are gun clubs where right-wing Christians get together, show-off their fancy firearms and sow the seeds of discontent against, what they believe, to be a completely tyrannical government. A good example of where this began to take shape was Elohim City. They pushed a segment of the right-wing and militias towards an ideology of Christian identity, white supremacy and anti-government sentiment. The things taught at Elohim city may have played a huge role in the motivation for Timothy McVeigh and the OKC bombing.

What's interesting is that even though Cooper was a right-wing, anti-government Christian, he denounced the Christian Identity movement and the teachings coming out of Elohim city.

Anyway, I thought I would add a bit of information to go along with Krazy's thread to show where some of what we are witnessing today originated and why these people believe what they believe.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: TechniXcality


See, I care about data. Not emotions or political rhetoric.

Yes, I am with you

Though your insistence on treating me rudely throughout the thread just because we don't have the same opinion about these losers in Oregon has been thoroughly noted by myself. Heck, what was the point of your post there anyways, so you can point out and go, "HAHA You were wrong!"? Childish...

hmmm

a reply to: introvert

Thanks. It's always good to get a historical look at what transpired in the past to get us to the present. Too many people judge the actions of the present without ever looking at the past for answers. For instance, the information you presented here better explains the data showing the partisan trend of "patriot" groups popping up more so during Democratic Presidencies and dropping off during Republican ones.

a reply to: TechniXcality

Thanks for not answering my questions in that post and focusing on the trivial stuff.

SPLC? Really? Even the FBI refuses to acknowledge their idea of Hate Groups list anymore. See also their money begging mailing list for money grubbing. They take in about $40 million a year ago bile sitting here n about $250 million. So on par with Jim and Tammy Faye there.

But I will play along for the sake of a question asked in the OP. Why do anti-govt groups rise during Democratic regimes or something to that effect. Well first and foremost is that the average American defines freedom as being left alone. That is that Americans don't like being told what their opinions should be, what their money should be spend upon and that their success or failure can be determined by the whims and schemes of people they never voted for and who regularly wipe their ass with the most important amendment (Nope not the 2nd), the 10th. And yes Republicans often ignore this law as well. But Democrats are notorious for it.

When the law of the land is that there are clear limitations on federal power and that anything not enumerated defined is a power left to the states or the people; well you can only kick a dog so many times before it bites.

A good example is happening today in fact, the President does not have the enumerated power to regulate commerce and property...yet here we go again. Btw. The 5th clearly states that only due process can take my property from me. Ohio law clearly states that I can make person to person sales with other Ohio residents over the age of 18 (21 for handguns). Since I now have to conduct a background check and be a licensed gun dealer, my property has been altered as I can no longer use my property as I could yesterday. Up hold and defend the Constitution indeed...but it isn't like he claims he ever studied it or anything, right?

But I am just a hate mongering anti-government domestic terrorist according to SPLC because not only have I read and understood the Constitution I dare mention how it is being circumvented by those that are supposed the be held in check by it.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

They likely are higher when the left is an office, I do not disagree.

At this point in your thread my friend, your "points" seem like baiting,and you are all over the place. I understand smearing the republicans is a prime agenda for you. The only thing I have a problem with is, that you equate patriots to the people you see as terrorists, I am a patriot (I've already told you what I think about them) I am not a terrorist and that smear you are making is why you have garnered my response.

originally posted by: Ahabstar
SPLC? Really? Even the FBI refuses to acknowledge their idea of Hate Groups list anymore.

Proof?

But I will play along for the sake of a question asked in the OP. Why do anti-govt groups rise during Democratic regimes or something to that effect. Well first and foremost is that the average American defines freedom as being left alone. That is that Americans don't like being told what their opinions should be, what their money should be spend upon and that their success or failure can be determined by the whims and schemes of people they never voted for and who regularly wipe their ass with the most important amendment (Nope not the 2nd), the 10th. And yes Republicans often ignore this law as well. But Democrats are notorious for it.

But all the notorious freedom stripping bills of the modern era can be traced to Republican presidencies...

When the law of the land is that there are clear limitations on federal power and that anything not enumerated defined is a power left to the states or the people; well you can only kick a dog so many times before it bites.

Couldn't you try actually voting to make change, being informed about who you vote for, and vet the candidates who are running instead of shucking all the blame away from yourself?

A good example is happening today in fact, the President does not have the enumerated power to regulate commerce and property...yet here we go again. Btw. The 5th clearly states that only due process can take my property from me. Ohio law clearly states that I can make person to person sales with other Ohio residents over the age of 18 (21 for handguns). Since I now have to conduct a background check and be a licensed gun dealer, my property has been altered as I can no longer use my property as I could yesterday. Up hold and defend the Constitution indeed...but it isn't like he claims he ever studied it or anything, right?

I'd be willing to bet those EO's are going to be 100% Constitutional as were his previous EO's on guns.

But I am just a hate mongering anti-government domestic terrorist according to SPLC because not only have I read and understood the Constitution I dare mention how it is being circumvented by those that are supposed the be held in check by it.

Actually you didn't list a single reason why the SPLC would consider you a domestic terrorist while having those opinions. The SPLC isn't saying that disagreeing with the government makes you a terrorist. They are saying that when you join these paramilitary groups and actually start TRAINING to overthrow the government (usually pitched as defending your rights) is when you cross that line.

Though it's nice of you to make this distinction about domestic terrorism; do you afford these tedious caveats to Muslims and their brands of terrorism too?

a reply to: TechniXcality

I didn't call you a terrorist, nor did I say that all "patriots" are terrorists. To be honest, I feel that patriot is too loose of a definition to go around calling yourself one. I DID specifically call those yahoos in Oregon terrorists.

At this point in your thread my friend, your "points" seem like baiting,

Says the guy constantly attacking me with ad hominems, deflecting my actual points, and with this post putting words in my mouth (strawman).

Well in any case. Great. Stop posting in the thread then. Make room for someone who can keep his politics out of the discussion and doesn't get offended because the person he is talking to has a different opinion about something than he does.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

It's especially bad with Obama. Now I'm not necessarily trying to start a partisan mud slinging fest, but that graph is rather disturbing. Why is it that when a Democrat is in office, extremists decide the government is coming to destroy their lives, but while a Republican is in office, this isn't a factor? I have my suspicions, but like I said I'm not trying to turn this into a partisan mud slinging contest.

Really? Because every time a democrat takes office it's a non-stop attack on our Constitutional rights, particularly our second amendment rights. I don't think there exists in this country a democrat that really truly believes in an inalienable right to bear arms.

Obama went even further down the road of tyranny when he signed into law a mandate that requires all citizens spend their money on healthcare or pay a fine. Beyond collecting taxes it's not the place of the government to know what we spend our money on, let alone tell us what to spend our money on, and neither is it their business what our state of health is.

Then he pushed the gay marriage agenda and legislated a sacrament of the Christian religion. What gets me is that so many democrats claim to believe in a separation of church and state. Hell no, no you don't. Our first amendment rights mean jack # to you.

If someone was spending years attacking and denouncing your freedoms, what would you do? You would probably get angry and start arming yourself, wouldn't you?

I really do hope the anti-government sentiment in this country boils over and turns into a shooting war. Our government has gone to far and needs to be stopped. If we are a free nation with Constitutional rights, then we need our freedoms and Constitutional rights returned to us. Inalienable, without limit, like it is written in our Constitution.

a reply to: peskyhumans

I find it ironic that you whine about the (non-existent) threat to the 2nd as well as Obamacare then proceed to complain about the government extending equal protections for marriage to gay people, citing Christianity as to why it shouldn't have been done (which is a violation of the 1st amendment). Also that gay marriage thing was the Supreme Court's doing and NOT Obama's doing. So wrong branch of government as well. Your post was PRICELESS.

I'm not sure you know how the Constitution actually works.