Anti-Government Extremist Groups Are A Uniquely American Problem

I figured this thread should go here since we are talking about domestic terrorist cells within the country that operate under the premise that the government is tyrannical.

Anti-Government Extremist Groups Are A Uniquely American Problem

In the days since gunmen took over a federal wildlife refuge in Burns, Oregon, the anti-federalist militants have accomplished little more than exhausting the patience of locals.

At the same time, they have brought renewed scrutiny to American right-wing, anti-government extremist groups -- a population whose numbers surged in the 1990s and are on the rise once again.

A tally released Monday by The Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks extremist organizations, identified 276 anti-government militia groups in the U.S., a 37 percent jump from 2014. The militia groups are an armed subset of so-called patriot groups that "typically adhere to extreme antigovernment doctrines and subscribe to groundless conspiracy theories about the federal government," according to the law center.

Heidi Beirich, who directs the law center's Intelligence Project magazine, said the rise of the anti-government movement follows a predictable pattern of surging during a Democratic presidency and then falling under a Republican one. Extremists like the Posse Comitatus surged during Jimmy Carter's presidency in the 1970s, while Bill Clinton led the country during a time when the militia movement was involved in high-profile confrontations that included the Waco seige, Ruby Ridge and the Oklahoma City bombing.

Beirich isn't lying either. Check out this graph that goes along with the article.


It's especially bad with Obama. Now I'm not necessarily trying to start a partisan mud slinging fest, but that graph is rather disturbing. Why is it that when a Democrat is in office, extremists decide the government is coming to destroy their lives, but while a Republican is in office, this isn't a factor? I have my suspicions, but like I said I'm not trying to turn this into a partisan mud slinging contest.

Extreme anti-government suspicion is a characteristic that Beirich said is unique to the United States.

"This country was founded on overthrowing a tyranny," Beirich said. "This revolutionary fervor is kind of embedded in the U.S. -- this idea if you don’t like the government, you grab guns and overthrow it.”

This isn't exactly the best of ideas, and going by rhetoric used in the media that gets you labeled as a terrorist these days. Violent overthrow of government is a terrible decision unless the government is already firing on the people en masse. That isn't the case now or at any time within the last 200+ years this country has been a country and that includes Waco and even the Civil War (the South started that war).

"Anti-govermment extremism is all over the country, but what’s unique about the West is that it’s a place where the federal government owns a lot of land," Beirich noted. "And a lot of the anti-government extremists live in rural areas. The West lends itself to this."

Beirich said groups like the one in Oregon were galvanized after a 2014 confrontation at the Bundy family ranch in Nevada between armed militants and federal law enforcement.

People like this need to wake the hell up. They aren't Rambo or some movie star in an action film. This is real life. There are real consequences for your actions and things don't get tied up all nice and neat and the end of your story arc.

Brian Levin, an attorney and criminologist, said the overall risk posed by anti-government groups is growing. Levin, who directs the nonpartisan Center for the Study of Hate & Extremism at California State University, said it was a "material change" that the militants in Oregon have moved from "mere rhetoric to action, and from action to forceful action."

"This is a significant milestone because we’re seeing now a coalescence of a grassroots organization, which is responding to events and trying to influence them through show of force," Levin said. "We’re seeing aggressive and criminal conduct to make this point."

In other words, terrorism. Though I LOVE Levin's idea to handle these crazy assholes.

Levin, who described himself as third-generation law enforcement, said the "less is more" approach to handling the militants will avoid opportunity for martyrdom or further notoriety.

"When things go south, the first question is always, 'Why didn’t you wait?'" Levin said. "A court order is still valid, and can be executed at a time and place of the government’s convenience. And no one gets killed. And we haven’t given these extremists fodder for their own recruitment efforts."

While a threat exists as long as the militants remain armed, Levin noted federal officials can afford to give the occupants room, since they effectively "put themselves in their own jail" by holing up in a remote and empty building with few snacks.

"Do you want to eat frozen Spam over a half-lit fire in a desolate tundra? Knock yourself out," Levin said. "It’s not like they occupied a resort in Maui.”

And that pretty much looks like what we are seeing go down with the Bundy "patriots" round 2. It's pretty funny watching them rant and fume about the government about to come kick their door down guns blazing (they like to talk about Waco a lot); meanwhile it never happens and they end up sitting in the middle of nowhere in the cold for days on end while the government just plays a game of attrition with them. Idiots.

nvm

a reply to: Krazysh0t
I suggest that it's partly the gun culture and partly the federal structure of the U.S.
In Europe, hostility to government as such tends to align itself with the left-wing, automatically.
Conservatism that hates government strikes me as a peculiar feature of American life, and that may be related to the fact that people can have more local loyalties.
Those two factors between them create the right-wing extremist groups.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Why is it that when a Democrat is in office, extremists decide the government is coming to destroy their lives, but while a Republican is in office, this isn't a factor?

Very good question K - I have no idea and it really makes no sense, I can only assume that folks are far too indoctrinated to see the forest through the trees....



ETA: Rolling out the Patriot Act 45 days after 911 and Invading Iraq against the wishes of the vast majority of the planet have added fuel to the fire that is anti-US Government sentiment, and 14+ years later and both parties having control of the throne since then, and the citizenry left with less freedoms and more surveillance is testament.

Whistleblowers and others such as Edward Snowden, Julian Assange,' Dr David Kelly, Gary McKinnon and Chelsea Manning - and the US governments treatment of them is also a testament to the rogue nature of the US governments covert global operations.

In 50 years time, the dictionary definition of "terrorism" will be a picture of the Presidential seal of the United States (and maybe an ISIS flag)

Being anti-Government should never (more or less) be acquainted with extremism.

Once someone draws a line on how anti-Government one can be, the line can be crossed on both sides and that's a recipe for disaster.


I wouldn't say it's uniquely American either...
Look at what happened in Donestk & Lugansk.

Look at the Middle East.


My main point is my first point.

Yes these groups are unique.

But I fail to see where they are responsible for the over 50,000 gun "incidents" in 2015.

If criminals are doing most gun violence, that makes them just as "anti-government" doesn't it?

gun violence archive

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Your bud BHO is actually an extremist Muslim...not me saying it but former and current Secret Service assigned to WH.

So of coarse conservatives are forming resistence groups opposing BHO...we don't want people twisted by Obama-speak.

Nice hit-piece attempt...

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
ETA: Rolling out the Patriot Act 45 days after 911 and Invading Iraq against the wishes of the vast majority of the planet have added fuel to the fire that is anti-US Government sentiment, and 14+ years later and both parties having control of the throne since then, and the citizenry left with less freedoms and more surveillance is testament.

Interestingly all those things were done during a Republican Presidency, but they didn't become a problem until a Democrat was in office. But it's not like they weren't unconstitutional and freedom stripping then either. I guess when it's your guy stealing liberties then its ok.

originally posted by: xuenchen
But I fail to see where they are responsible for the over 50,000 gun "incidents" in 2015.

And I fail to see where this claim was made in this thread.

originally posted by: Granite
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Your bud BHO is actually an extremist Muslim...not me saying it but former and current Secret Service assigned to WH.

*eyeroll* First off, Obama isn't my buddy. I didn't vote for him in either election. Second off, no one believes this ridiculous conspiracy theory anymore (it's been thoroughly debunked). Third off, even if it were true, it isn't illegal to be a Muslim and be the President. So irrelevant on all accounts.

Thanks for throwing some partisan mud though. I knew it was inevitable that someone would do it. Can't have a civil discussion without someone dragging their partisan nonsense into a thread.

So of coarse conservatives are forming resistence groups opposing BHO...we don't want people twisted by Obama-speak.

Nice hit-piece attempt...

Though you are more than willing to twist yourself with made up lies.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

It's also not like these groups are anti-government. They simply do not agree with modern policy. They are not pushing for anarchy. They are pushing back on certain policies they see as unconstitutional. From their perspective, it is the politicians and the system they are forming, which are anti-citizenry. Which makes these "militant" groups patriots, just like the founding fathers. From their perspective, the BLM is making policy changes which makes it easier for them to acquire private land that has been in these families for generations.

These groups are not anti-government. That is just the label the media will use to villify them. Don't fall for it.

a reply to: Woodcarver

No they are anti-government, they are terrorists, and they are wrong. On all accounts. What they THINK the government is doing to them is wrong and their actions are DEFINITELY anti-government. If they had REAL grievances and wanted to take it up with the government like a normal person, there are plenty of legal avenues for them to explore. The rest of the country apparently has figured out how to do it.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Does it make me an extremist that I think both parties suck and that the government is inefficient, inept and dangerous?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Only if you act on those ideas to include breaking the law with firearms, holding hostages, seizing property that isn't yours, blowing stuff up, killing someone, etc.

That doesn't include things like nonviolent protests, suing the government, petitioning the government with your grievances, or any other form of working within the system to change it.

Anti-Government Extremist Groups Are A Uniquely American Problem

I stopped reading after this

You Americans are the only Unique PPl in the world .... no other countries or governments exist......

UNIQUE

Riouz

a reply to: Riouz

Cool. I stopped reading your post when you let me know that you judge a book by its cover versus its content. Carry on with your shallow thinking.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

It's interesting in your OP to read patriot in a snide manner under the umbrella of terrorist.

Patriot=terrorist just say it, and if that isn't how you feel then don't label people as patriots you truly feel are terrorists.

originally posted by: Riouz

You Americans are the only Unique PPl in the world .... no other countries or governments exist......

UNIQUE

Riouz

I am glad the nonexistent people of the world are finally starting to acknowledge this truth. Thank you

a reply to: TechniXcality

One man's patriot is another's terrorist. This is common knowledge. Got anything to add to the actual meat and potatoes of the thread or did you just come in to accuse me of being unamerican?

a reply to: Krazysh0t
Not Shallow thinking ,just an absolutely absurd Headline
But thanks for your discourse it was a pleasure

Riouz