The Disease That Is Feminism

a reply to: woodwardjnr

Well, the OP is ONLY 16 so there is hope!

a reply to: TheSubversiveOne

You can blaime World religions on that. We know quite well what Islam tells about position of women in Quran, but we forget what happened in early days in Christianity.
Maria Madgalene for example was rendered as a prostitute by Pope Gregorus the Great at 590 AD. As a important figure of New Testament ( with other family females she anointed Jesus and prepared him - this is only done by close relatives ) She was the first one to witness resurrection..
Story does not tell why Pope Gregorus rendered her as a prostitute, was it to step down female rights or somehow showing that even most sinfull people are welcome. Later NT has removed prostitute from the texts regarding Maria but the label still exists.

In hindu females rights has been under microscope after the Amendment Act, 2005 in India. Still old habits die slowly and many females are treated like in old days. Women still loose cases in court as a second class citizen when there are divorce and inheritage issues involved.

World is still areally nasty place for women.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: Abysha

I mean where did you get that picture from, I found the person that is mentioned but don't find those words that the image presents.

It just came from a google image search. I've studied this quite a bit so I already knew what I was looking for. As far as where I got the concept, most sociology books regarding feminism will also cover that. It's a part of human history.

It is important not to get hung up about it. The average person who announces they are a feminist fall into third-wave. It is the one where you see a balance and inclusiveness for all women. It is the natural standpoint an informed person would take on the issue without any deeper theory or discriminating rhetoric.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Abysha

I really only have one problem with thirdwave feminism, free speech... it's not up for for debate. Free speech includes anything in the creative realm, video games, scripts, art, literature etc. It's anyone's right to call something sexist, racist, genderist whether it is or isn't BUT it's not okay to try to ban any of the above. Knocking down barriers to equal access, go for it. Back off of free speech.

There are flaws in every ideology and none are required to be static. And with third-wave, the fluctuating degrees with which a person adheres to it is vast. What you are talking about is more commonplace with "radical" feminism.

a reply to: Abysha

First wave feminism was all about gaining rights to vote for white middle class women, they did not care at all about women of color or women of another social status in society.

Second wave was when they become inclusive to women of color, realizing fighting sex inequality along side figures like MLK jr,Malcolm X and Rosa parks was the best way to gain greater media attention to their political ideals on women's rights.

Third wave feminists have mimicked the Borg strategy,They try to make every political issue a feminist issue and everyone must assimilate to all feminists ideals or else you're a sexist, a misogynists and you shall be destroyed.

Sadly most feminists today subscribe to the SJW and PC rhetoric as their main talking points, so there's almost no point in talking to them when they ask you why anyone would have a problem with feminism.

originally posted by: TheSubversiveOne
Feminism is no longer needed in the West. The battle was won long ago. Nowadays if you call yourself a feminist, its like calling your self an abolitionist when abolition happened many years ago. It's no longer necessary.

Since feminism is no longer 'needed' in the West - Why are women still being raped? Why are women's voices still ignored in public discourse? Why are women still making 75% of what men do for the same job? Why are women doing 75% or more of all child rearing duties (and without compensation)? Why do women have to choose between family and work while men can have both? It goes on and on....

And if feminism has been so successful in the west - why do men still think, act and speak as though women were their property?

It isn't women that need to change - it's men and there is a long way to go. Time to grow up boys.... And I say that with all due respect for the feminist men in the audience.

a reply to: Kali74

Oh they still can and do and I'd never want their free speech to be taken away... it's just very unlikely that today there wouldn't be at least one person who said something back. Which of course is really what the problem is. Popping the layers of the protective bubble.

Yuuup "don't call me out on my uncivil behavior because of PC & stuff" is the kernel of their complaint.

"Free Speech" hmm, yes I'm all for that, however speech has never been free of consequences.
The whole anti PC rabble are of the "having their cake & eating it too" mindset.
"I want to act like a complete enema nozzle & be free from any criticism for it" seems to be their only argument.

It's that same 30% of humanity that walk & talk but,,,,eh.

I know it's harsh but people gotta learn how to behave.
When I owned my company down in LA I couldn't have anyone working around me that were morons, they'd get fired.

Too bad so sad.

I got canned from a "lucrative" contract because I told a vice president his reps were morons who "didn't know what the ^%&%^ they were doing".
They didn't, seriously one guy was unable to answer the most basic questions of system operation on equipment he was responsible for installing & maintaining.

But I digress, speech has consequences.

K~

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: Revolution9

If you haven't read it yet, A Room of One's Own is a great illustration of this. In it, there is a an essay from Woolf (the whole book is based on her essays) about "Shakespeare's Sister" who, if she did write, would probably have still been unknown.

Looking at women's literature throughout history gives one of the most vivid pictures a person can get into the importance of feminism.

I agree and will even go to the extent that the universal oppression has to be addressed before any other bigotries can be addressed - and that perhaps when this fundamental "hatred of the other" is irradicated all other prejudices will be seen for the fallacy (evil) that they are.

EDIT: It is an extention of the mistaken idea that force is a valid means of rule. That if you can force another person or state into submission that you are 'right' and nothing could be further from the truth (look around you and see how well this strategy is working).

It is this 'Dominator' paradigm (to borrow Riane Eisler's phrase) that is no longer needed in the West or the East. It is this 'might is right' idea that is killing us all.

Feminism, in all it's myriad forms, is leading the change to a society of equals among equals, that values life over property and that may have a chance of saving humanity from self destruction.

originally posted by: Malynn
Funny, in your post you fail to mention what these special rights and privileges are that the dirty feminists are demanding.

The problem is mainly with semantics when we envelope ourselves int these kinds of arguments. Sure, if you confide in the technical definition of feminism, then there's not much of an argument to be had against gender equality. The reality of the face of feminism, though, is rather contradictory to the realities of gender equality. How many times have you honestly heard a proclaimed feminist touch the issues of:

Preferential treatment for females in child custody cases

A wage gap farce, the validity of which disappears when hours worked are taken into account when compared with with earnings per hour

Male vs. female circumcision and the societal attitudes surrounding them


Financial favoritism goes to women every time, and you will hear nothing about it from proclaimed "feminists". You see, feminism is like religion; most of those who tout it and rail for it strongly are self-serving and have self-centered intentions. Of all the class disparities in our culture, women in this culture have the loudest voice and the mildest concerns when compared to any other group.

The arguments toward mainstream feminist ideals are often childish and really rather brat-minded, but perhpas that's the father's fault for spoiling their little angels. Patriarchy, after all.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
People hijacked feminism, and your fine with accepting the new wave and using the feminist label to denounce what is a great cause...

Telling.

Charlie, I rarely feel the need to argue with you, but it's no great cause. By it's very name, feminism is profoundly sexist -- it focuses solely on one gender & obvious preferential treatment over the other versus fostering genuine equality across all 7+ billion humans.

When half of the human race (intersexed aside here) cannot argue a point from an intellectual perspective, or wear a shirt with one of the human forms on it without raising near-riot, or so much as be allowed to crack a crude joke without being tarred & feathered for it, we have a very big problem we need to address. This is not equality, this is simply swinging the pendulum to the other side. It's only equal in it's disrespect.

I'm female, but I'm no feminist. I despise them. I'm more accurately a Humanist, and that's how it should be when striving for gender equality. Not via a gender-specific sexist soapbox brigade masquerading poorly as equality.

a reply to: NateTheAnimator

You have a good grasp on the evolution of feminism. However, your views on third-wave seems to be a combination of third-wave and the newer feminists. These are staunch critics of third-wave because third-wave is sex-positive and inclusive. Some newer strains of feminist logic even criticize heterosexual women, in general.

Many who share your views on third-wave also lump them together. It's not really fair but I get it; it's a mess.

Just like any movement, you have a Unitarian mindset on one end and a Westboro Baptist mindset on the other (just an analogy). Most people fall in the middle but aren't the loudest.

a reply to: FyreByrd

Since feminism is no longer 'needed' in the West - Why are women still being raped?

Because some people are rapists. Women can and do rape as well. Men rape men as well. It's because there is something wrong in their head.

Why are women's voices still ignored in public discourse?

Which voices and which public discourses are you talking about?

Why are women still making 75% of what men do for the same job?

Because they work less hours, they work less lucrative jobs, they work less full-time, they take less dangerous employment, and take time off for having children. Where the case women work more hours, work more lucrative jobs, work more dangerous employment, work more full-time, and not have children, they make the same. It's been illegal to pay women less for the same job for decades.

If women were being paid less for the same job, why wouldn't a company hire all women? Because it's not true.

Why are women doing 75% or more of all child rearing duties (and without compensation)?

That is the way nature is. Motherhood is a precious natural fact of nature. A child is the compensation. The man works to provide resources for the family. What more compensation is needed?

Why do women have to choose between family and work while men can have both?

Because they want to. Women can choose not to have children. They can lead the same lives as men, but why should they? Because you tell them to?

And if feminism has been so successful in the west - why do men still think, act and speak as though women were their property?

Where? Who? At least give an example.

It isn't women that need to change - it's men and there is a long way to go. Time to grow up boys.... And I say that with all due respect for the feminist men in the audience.

Put your big boy pants on for a minute and think.

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: TheSubversiveOne
Feminism is no longer needed in the West. The battle was won long ago. Nowadays if you call yourself a feminist, its like calling your self an abolitionist when abolition happened many years ago. It's no longer necessary.

Since feminism is no longer 'needed' in the West - Why are women still being raped?

Because bad people exist and when bad people have physical advantage over those who they wish to harm, they have means to do so. Its a tragic state of affairs but it's nearly impossible to police without jailing innocents.

Why are women's voices still ignored in public discourse?

What?

Why are women still making 75% of what men do for the same job?

Because they WORK 25% LESS HOURS. Math. You can't be serious.

Why are women doing 75% or more of all child rearing duties (and without compensation)? Why do women have to choose between family and work while men can have both? It goes on and on....

Because many of them CHOOSE TO.

And if feminism has been so successful in the west - why do men still think, act and speak as though women were their property?

The clause that would make this real, but not a solid point, would be "why do SOME men think,a ct and speak as though women were their property?", and the oppositional point would be "Why some SOME women do the exact same thing?

Or do you think all women are meek, uncontrolling little cherubs?

It isn't women that need to change - it's men

Both a victim and blame complex, i see. You have a lot of growing up to do if that is honestly your stance, my dear.

Time to grow up boys.... And I say that with all due respect for the feminist men in the audience.

Mhm. Yea, as a gay man I have to say that 'women's rights' have effectively impacted my life negatively far too much considering my void of females in my personal life for your statements to have any validity to be carried through to some sort of executive enforcement.

All you have stated so far is whining and fallacy. Women in western culture are easily among the most privlieged bracket in the world; it's no surprise that you are used to preferential treatment and want more.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Abysha

I really only have one problem with thirdwave feminism, free speech... it's not up for for debate. Free speech includes anything in the creative realm, video games, scripts, art, literature etc. It's anyone's right to call something sexist, racist, genderist whether it is or isn't BUT it's not okay to try to ban any of the above. Knocking down barriers to equal access, go for it. Back off of free speech.

Free speech is of no value if no one is listening. Most men do not listen to women's voices, they smile, nod their head and mumble something without every hearing or considering the content. The same words from a man's mouth are heard and considered. This is true in individual conversations and collective ones.

a reply to: TheSubversiveOne

and to Deadfoot:

Your dismissive responses make my point.

originally posted by: FyreByrd
Free speech is of no value if no one is listening. Most men do not listen to women's voices, they smile, nod their head and mumble something without every hearing or considering the content. The same words from a man's mouth are heard and considered. This is true in individual conversations and collective ones.

How is this not straight up sexist right here? Thinking your ish don't stink and therefore the peon in front of you isn't worth listening to isn't gender-specific.

originally posted by: FyreByrd
a reply to: TheSubversiveOne

and to Deadfoot:

Your dismissive responses make my point.

Your evasion of facts and counter argument make mine.

People who bitch about feminism is similar to people that bitch against abortion, there usualy people you wouldent want to make woopy with.

Only in america beteeen 3 and 4 million women a year are victims of some type of harrasment be it, sexual, verbal or physical.

So keep on trying to put women down people, you guys are the reason that feminism exist.

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
Only in america beteeen 3 and 4 million women a year are victims of some type of harrasment be it, sexual, verbal or physical.

This is the kind of pulling at strings comeback I can't stand. You act like men aren't victims of harassment & abuse. Bullspit, they definitely are. What is infuriating is the lack of resources for male victims. You should be ashamed for shrugging that off.

a reply to: Nyiah

Really cause some men get abused its all fine and dandy, keep on playing the victim and making excuses up, youll find out the real world isint all sunshine and roses