Top U.S. Air Defense Commander: Turkey’s Shootdown of Russian Jet “Had to Be PRE-PLANNED”

Continues further to say:

The crew of the second Su-24M had a clear view of the moment the missile was fired from the Turkish F-16, and reported this to base.

Commander Bondarev noted that a pair of Turkish F-16Cs had been in the area close to the attack zone for more than an hour prior to the attack, which explains their presence in the area. The time needed to get the aircraft ready at the Diyarbakır airfield and travel to the attack zone is an estimated 46 minutes.

I'll say this. At least when Russia explains a situation they typically offer evidence and specifics. When we do it, we use social media tweets as proof. Bah aha. I can foresee a downing of a Turkish fighter jet.

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: Rosinitiate

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: Rosinitiate

Zaphod58 dont agree. and he is a moderator. So i gues this guy is full of it.

Zaphod and I rarely agree but at least I respect him.

He knows his Plains...but it ends there. He dosent even know what a target cam looks like hwne it got a Lock on.

He might know his plains, but does he know his planes?

Rosinitiate S+F for the thread, allow me to add:

Vladimir Putin claims US 'leaked' flight path of downed Russian jet to Turkey

'Why did we give this information to the Americans if they did not pass it along to the rest of the coalition?'

Vladimir Putin has accused the US of “leaking” the flight path of a downed Russian jet to Turkish authorities.

The Russian leader said America – as leaders of the coalition against Isis – had a responsibility to ensure warplanes were not targeted by members.

...

"The American side, which leads the coalition that Turkey belongs to, knew about the location and time of our planes' flights, and we were hit exactly there and at that time," Mr Putin claimed during a joint press conference with French president Francois Hollande.

"Why did we give this information to the Americans if they did not pass it along to the rest of the coalition?"

Turkey would need that information in order to pre-plan targeting the plane, especially now it is being revealed the plane was hardly in Turkish air space and the downing occurred over the Syrian side of the border.

a reply to: Blackmarketeer

Why didnt russia talk to turkey?

a reply to: Xcathdra

Russia talked to NATO, and Turkey is NATO. Why is Turkey acting like a rogue state might be a better question.

a reply to: Blackmarketeer

Yet russia gets pissed when turkey speaks to nato first.

ok..


NATO nor the US is responsible for Turkish airspace. Secondly im sure the russian flight path didnt have turkish airspace violations factored in.

originally posted by: Blackmarketeer
a reply to: Xcathdra

Russia talked to NATO, and Turkey is NATO. Why is Turkey acting like a rogue state might be a better question.

Putin made the presumption that because he made a deal with Americans , he can kill Turkmen at the behest of Asad .
Tragedy is that the Southern Turmen Brigade had just taken 2 villages back from ISIS and Russians start dropping bombs on them .

Turks told Russia that the deal Putin made Americans doesn't provide immunity to kill Turkmens .

We will shoot any plane that bombs Turkmens said the Turks to Russians .

Russians didn't think the Turks had the Cahoonas .

Russians were wrong.

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
Continues further to say:

The crew of the second Su-24M had a clear view of the moment the missile was fired from the Turkish F-16, and reported this to base.

Commander Bondarev noted that a pair of Turkish F-16Cs had been in the area close to the attack zone for more than an hour prior to the attack, which explains their presence in the area. The time needed to get the aircraft ready at the Diyarbakır airfield and travel to the attack zone is an estimated 46 minutes.

I'll say this. At least when Russia explains a situation they typically offer evidence and specifics. When we do it, we use social media tweets as proof. Bah aha. I can foresee a downing of a Turkish fighter jet.

So...you are saying that Russia uses real, actual, data, and science to demonstrate their point; while the west uses rumor...

From my observations that seems 100% in line with reality...sigh.

a reply to: tanka418

Well it is a lot easier to use actual proof when you're not saying one thing and doing something completely contrary.

Like funding ISIS while telling the world you're fighting them for starters.

a reply to: Rosinitiate

or like claiming you provided a flight path that didnt show an airspace violation in another country? Or like claiming there were no warnings when in fact their were? Or like claiming your in syria to fight isis but in reality arent?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Rosinitiate

or like claiming you provided a flight path that didnt show an airspace violation in another country? Or like claiming there were no warnings when in fact their were? Or like claiming your in syria to fight isis but in reality arent?

I'm not a political type, I'm an engineer/scientist...I actually require a level of evidence (data) that is rather strict...

In this "mess" what I've not seen is any data that indicates that anything was "Russia's fault", and I've seen a whole lot that seems to indicate this incident is wholly Turkey's responsibility!

If you want to talk flight paths; I have no issue accepting Turkey's version...mostly because it proves Turkey was in gross error...any one can "see" this by actually doing the "math"...something you have not done!

The audio warnings; are not acceptable however, they are not intelligible, nor do they appear to be in English (a requirement). Perhaps if you could find wholly independent confirmation of that...

But, as it stands right now; I feel the available data supports Russia...and shows Turkey to be almost criminally wrong.

a reply to: tanka418

Turkey released the russian track showing it violated Turkish airspace.
Turkey released the audio warnings which were in English and verified by the US (convienent because after that russia started the we gave our flight plan to the US bu**sh**).
Russia wasn't attacking ISIS in the area.

Given russias track record on lies im more inclined to trust turkey.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: tanka418

Turkey released the russian track showing it violated Turkish airspace.

Not arguing that...as I said; no issue with the published radar data.

Turkey released the audio warnings which were in English and verified by the US (convienent because after that russia started the we gave our flight plan to the US bu**sh**).

Yeah...about that; you have another, independent source? Cause, ya see, unless you do; then there is only a single source for that data...and as far as I can see...the audio data is far too corrupt to be of any use (due to poor quality and distortions).

Russia wasn't attacking ISIS in the area.

Given russias track record on lies im more inclined to trust turkey.

It would be prudent and logical to assume that any insurgent is ISIS; thus this is more a matter of opinion, and ours don't count. That said; in my opinion, you are wrong.

I feel that your assessment of Russia's "track record" is in correct, biased, and concluded with "bad" data...that to is only my opinion.

And, we can't trust Turkey...they over-reacted, and are thus irrational.

a reply to: tanka418

The US confirmed warnings were given as we were monitoring because its the same frequency the US and Russia us for each other. Secondly Russia just released info that contradicts its own pilots. That discussion here - www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: tanka418

The US confirmed warnings were given as we were monitoring because its the same frequency the US and Russia us for each other. Secondly Russia just released info that contradicts its own pilots. That discussion here - www.abovetopsecret.com...

And I'm asking for another, independent corroboration...

a reply to: tanka418

The US wasnt involved in the incident. It is independent.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: tanka418

The US wasnt involved in the incident. It is independent.

Never mind...you are wrong!

a reply to: tanka418

Based on? Source?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: tanka418

The US confirmed warnings were given as we were monitoring because its the same frequency the US and Russia us for each other. Secondly Russia just released info that contradicts its own pilots. That discussion here - www.abovetopsecret.com...

Where exactly is that again? I looked at your link; what you say isn't there, and what I did find, actually previously because I'm following that other thread as well, was a link by you to Sputnik News that rather clearly shows that Turkey is guilty of a criminal act. I would truly love to read where Russia contradicts their pilot, and of course "how" this contradiction manifests.

I'm not sure just how you came to your conclusion, but the available data doesn't seem to support what you say.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: tanka418

Based on? Source?

US and Turkey are both members of NATO.
Source: common knowledge