Exploring Saturn Return

a reply to: toysforadults

Mine too.I didn't think I was going to be able to get through it.First Saturn return had me in the hospital, my loved ones were worried I was going to hurt myself.I subsequently received a diagnosis for BP type 2.I was in shock, and it took a long time for me to accept, and start the healing.

Those who knew me best, couldn't believe it.No regrets though, I feel stronger on all levels at this point.I doubt the clarity and peace of mind I enjoy know would have been possible if it weren't for the experiences and lessons around the time of my first Saturn Return.

I've been brushing up on my dance lessons lately. The partners I've been locking horns with keep wanting the music to speed up.Me I would like to slow dance .They're Cougars!

They keep showing up announced, before I am able to put my shirt on, and last time I was in the shower! Reminds me of a bad joke i can't remember atm.(Maybe it's better that way, lol)

toysforadults, I really enjoy you sharing your perspective in our community.Actually was looking forward to contributing to one of your more recent threads.I am looking forward to stopping and smelling the roses, just need to dot a few more I's.


How would you describe the before and after your first Saturn Return?May be helpful for others wrestling with this dynamic.

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

I just found this thread again and am giving it another re-read. So glad I found this. Wow... Thank you OP, again (3 years later!)

a reply to: FamCore

You're welcome. Recent events in my personal life have me reflecting on the energies at play between individuals having past first and second Saturn returns.(The interaction between them.)

Stepping up to practice more responsibility while learning how to delegate better have me revisiting this topic.

This one is dedicated to my girls...


Since you came into my life,
A fire had been lit,
The time became right,
To leave my shadow behind,
As I labour construction,
Some wonder,
How it is I function...

Checking what is honest,
Checking what is true,
Inspecting my expectations,
I fear the world getting the best of you.
Like in the past,
With my dad,
A strange cat.

Looking back to a time forgot,
One evening my youngest woke me up.
Could you stay over?
Could you spend the night?
No,
No,
There must be somewhere else you could go.

Next day my heart sank,
Imagining my eldest with the same bag,
Life at the crossroads,
Hoping to turn back time...

Back downtown,
I run,
Ramming out steel,
Acting foreman looking to get a grip,
Circled back round,
Returned home,
The same as I set out,
Curiosity begging the question,
Where did you stay?
How did it go?

Under the stars,
Wild dogs,
Wouldn't leave you alone,
The winds changed again,
Dynamic layers flowing together,
As I write,
The spheres align,
No windows or skylights,
I look inside,
Inside this soul of mine,
Living from the heart,
Dreams are no stranger to me...

Growing pains,
Much all the same,
First it was to do with my father,
That return,
Expanded my vision further,
Next time around,
I felt my mom let me down,
Afraid of what she couldn't understand,
Down time then,
Had me saying,
Never again,
The toll on my daughters,
For many moons,
Stole my laughter...

Never the less,
Wrestling with that,
Is what led to us meeting you.

I step back,
Catch my breath,
As I write,
Airing these thoughts,
I find myself in good company,
Our Family,
The one we all share,
You remind me,
Of the me in you,
The desire to aspire,
The sparkle in your eyes,
Twinkling diamonds in the sky...

Excellence in non profit,
We got this,
Love, and patience,
Humility shields all,
Equally,
I believe in you,
I see better now,
Time can heal all wounds,
The present is now,
You helping to help me,
Heal my children...

My world's getting better,
Having met you,
Many hands make for light work,
With kindness comes many perks,
Time can heal all wounds,
The present is now,
You helping to help me,
Heal all my children...

Tomorrow, today,
Building forward in every way,
Hopefully this note rings true,
I see a better future for you,
For us, for we,
For all that can be,
Don't be afraid,
Meet me half way,
Fire burning deep inside,
Passionate, honest, and true,
I've got a place for you stay,
Inside my heart.

Here some context for the last poem.

I had met someone, a muse if you will.I was really worried about her, and still am.It's in the hands of a higher power now.I wax poetic on what her influence has meant to me.It's bizarre sometimes, how inspiration can enter our lives from some unlikely places.God willingly, she'll make her way through the adversity she faces, all the stronger for it.

The parts referring to my Dad, Mom, and the children too are reflections on my unscheduled holidays.The lessons I learned gave me greater insight into the relationships I share with them, and what the archetypes mean to me.

It can be a bit of a downer.Thankfully, some of the individuals I met really made my day.I doubt I would have had the opportunity to meet them, unless we came together in those circumstances.I'm looking forward to reconnecting with them.

I feel like sharing one of the primary challenges that kept running into.It's about communication, and something for others to keep in mind.Practicing better communication skills, go hand in hand with effective focus and time management.

It's about communicating with those past their second return.It felt like I would tell them something, but they weren't listening.A bit of a paradox, I think they felt the same way. Idk, I don't think that being able to see through another's perspective means someone has to agree with their suggested course of action.

Imo, individuals like that sometimes make propositions an all or nothing proposal (Either/or as opposed to both).I found the stress of this the most draining.Furthermore, it really distracted me from having the time to consult with loved ones who had a better grasp on the dynamics at play.

I can count the times I've cried in the last 10 years one one hand, but the pain of seeing how far off course this lesson showed me was rather heart breaking.Fortunately, tears can heal too.

The events reminded me of the importance of placing order into my relationships with purpose;rather then letting my respect for others interfere with my own vision for the future.Help me be the change I want to see in the world, or get out of the way!

The experiences of those several weeks, went really well with my personal developement (in a ying/yang fashion).I feel ready to take practice realizing my aspirations on the next level.

originally posted by: dffrntkndfnml
a reply to: Riffrafter

With regard to the Baby Boomers, they oldest would have second Saturn return around 2004. The youngest, 2022. (This if you run that generation from 1946 to 1964.) I wonder how this period will be remembered, and what kind of changes we'll see in 5 years. ..

I've been reflecting on this thread lately.

The events of the last year or so form a backdrop for those working through Saturn Return. Limitations and constrictions have been taking place collectively for many, in a way most haven't dealt with before.

I lament how this is affecting all of us, in particular the youth and our elders. Opportunities for the young, and peace of mind for the elderly appear to be on hold. Often we can't see each other smile, eyes up just doesn't give the full picture. On the other hand, those who built the society we enjoy have been forced into confronting death alone while they can't be close to those they need the most.

Coronavirus first came onto my radar at the end of 2019. I figured it would take at least a few years to work through. This thread makes me wonder about our collective demographics, and the age distributions in countries having the most difficult times wrestling with this kind of adversity...

Great thread!

I first became aware of Saturn Return from a Tool song, “The Grudge” and it couldn’t have come in at a better time. I was drinking and partying like the rockstar I had so desperately tried to be and it was looking grim as far as launching that career. I was 27 and the reality of that was really hitting me, plus some childhood issues that needed resolving, so drinking and drugs was the way out.

Fast forward about 2.5 years later, it was 9 months before my 30th birthday, I was trying to end my relationship with my girlfriend because I was a basket case. I opened Facebook one day and saw my dad had sent me a message, trying to get me to hook up with one of his Filipina girlfriend’s nieces, so she could move to America. I told him, “Dad, cut the sh*t. I’m still in a relationship that I’m trying to end because I’m all messed up, don’t throw this sh*t at me.”. Well, apparently he only saw “Dad, cut the sh*t”, because the message I got back was a scathing rant about how I only cared about myself and how other people in this world could use a chance at a good life and I was scum for “getting drunk and worshipping false idols”.

I unloaded on him. Everything I had experienced as a child that I found him responsible for due to his absence (I experienced years of physical, sexual, mental and verbal abuse and he knew it was happening, but never did anything about it) I was trying to make myself better and he wasn’t caring, once more, and only wanted to use me to get his girlfriend’s family here. I went OFF. His reaction was, “Oh sh*t, Andy, wait, I didn’t see your whole first message, I’m so sorry, let me read this all.”

It was like a light switch. After I unloaded all that on him, I practically quit drinking over night, my relationship with my girlfriend got a LOT stronger, I did a 180. Saturn had returned.

I was 29 years old. I remember first reading about Saturn Return and how we had lost Jimi Hendrix, Janice Joplin, Kurt Cobain and Jim Morrison as they didn’t make it to Saturn Return. I was actually kind of relieved, thinking that I wouldn’t be around for mine. I was very suicidal at the time and had plotted where I was going to do the deed so no one would have to deal with it, or even find it. I was ready to cash in my chips until that one night when a simple misunderstanding made it all go away.

Wear the grudge like a crown of negativity
Calculate what we will or will not tolerate
Desperate to control all and everything
Unable to forgive your scarlet lettermen

Clutch it like a cornerstone Otherwise it all comes down
Justify denials and grip 'em to the lonesome end
Clutch it like a cornerstone Otherwise it all comes down
Terrified of being wrong
Ultimatum prison cell Saturn ascends, choose one or ten
Hang on or be humbled again Humbled again
Clutch it like a cornerstone Otherwise it all comes down
Justify denials and grip 'em to the lonesome end Saturn ascends, comes round again Saturn ascends, the one, the ten
Ignorant to the damage done

Wear the grudge like a crown of negativity
Calculate what we will or will not tolerate Desperate to control all and everything
Unable to forgive your scarlet lettermen Wear the grudge like a crown Desperate to control Unable to forgive
And sinking deeper Defining, confining, sinking deeper
Controlling, defining, and we're sinking deeper Saturn comes back around to show you everything
Let's you choose what you will, will not see and then Drags you down like a stone or lifts you up again Spits you out like a child, light and innocent Saturn comes back around Lifts you up like a child Or drags you down like a stone to Consume you till you choose to let this go
Choose to let this go Give away the stone Let the oceans take and Transmutate this cold and fated anchor
Give away the stone Let the waters kiss and Transmutate these leaden grudges into gold Let go

originally posted by: dffrntkndfnml

originally posted by: dffrntkndfnml
a reply to: Riffrafter

With regard to the Baby Boomers, they oldest would have second Saturn return around 2004. The youngest, 2022. (This if you run that generation from 1946 to 1964.) I wonder how this period will be remembered, and what kind of changes we'll see in 5 years. ..

I've been reflecting on this thread lately.

The events of the last year or so form a backdrop for those working through Saturn Return. Limitations and constrictions have been taking place collectively for many, in a way most haven't dealt with before.

I lament how this is affecting all of us, in particular the youth and our elders. Opportunities for the young, and peace of mind for the elderly appear to be on hold. Often we can't see each other smile, eyes up just doesn't give the full picture. On the other hand, those who built the society we enjoy have been forced into confronting death alone while they can't be close to those they need the most.

Coronavirus first came onto my radar at the end of 2019. I figured it would take at least a few years to work through. This thread makes me wonder about our collective demographics, and the age distributions in countries having the most difficult times wrestling with this kind of adversity...

Good points.

At the same time, the isolation may be exactly what some people need around that age. When no one else is around, you’re left with yourself and while that can certainly drive some people crazy, it can also provide that breathing room for self-reflection, which may lead to a positive return!

a reply to: Drucifer

I look back around that time, it's painful remembering Saturn Return. It had me losing my mind, and being diagnosed as experiencing a mood disorder. I was at my wit's end wrestling with the weight of the grudge I had been carrying.

I felt betrayed, misunderstood, and tired of being unable to be myself. Dark nights, had me looking down off a bridge at the water, I wondered if it was my time to go. It was never about me, though. How would I feel, looking on from beyond, if I want to help my children?

I felt trapped in a maze, a labyrinth of immense proportions. It's been a wild ride, I found a light.

Fortunately, I was able to make my peace with my dad through it all. I was able to give him that poem, and begin getting back to loving each other the way we had before.

In a spiritual sense, a weight had been lifted off my shoulders. I started to see more clearly, and a better tomorrow. Gradually, things started to fall into place.

Thanks, for sharing. It's good to hear other's experiences with the energies Saturn Return represents more personally. The weather right now, has me looking through my collection of matchsticks.

The communication thing is major. For myself, this is a bit of a paradox. Fiery by nature, sometimes I wonder if others only see the fire or the light? Makes me want to double-check everything. We have all these tools for communication, yet rather than simplify it often makes things more complicated.

I had underestimated the power of communication and found myself trying to learn how to express myself better. It's challenging trying to find the right words to describe the lessons Saturn Return is trying to teach. Idk, I want to lend some air support, it's just practicing finding the right words.

I'm 42 now. In conversation with others, I get the impression of those who passed Saturn Return tend to reassure the younger generation. Astrology is an art, I believe the lessons one goes through are archetypical.

originally posted by: Drucifer
Good points.

At the same time, isolation may be exactly what some people need around that age. When no one else is around, you’re left with yourself and while that can certainly drive some people crazy, it can also provide that breathing room for self-reflection, which may lead to a positive return!

Most definitely. Back then, I had been running around like a chicken with its head cut off for so long, I forgot what I was running away from. It took medication to give me that space. The learning aspect of how Saturn Return affects us is priceless.

i had no idea that my life-path was 10 years out-of-sync with the Saturn Return influence

no wonder i am not awed by personal status/ nor impressed with persons wielding power-authority...

unmilitary behavior

The concepts an myths behind Saturn usually imply "Impermanence", and order to an extent, but more so just an agent of change in the cosmos.

Another name for his father, Uranus is Chaos, while Uranus's daddy is akin to the Aether. I've wondered in other mythologies

Saturn often portrayed be a "Devourer of Worlds" (the actual translation of Oppenheimer destroyer) of sortz, an while a scyhe ain't much an weapon compared to a spear. It is a tool for farming, which implies some importance in agriculture, like every culture praying for more or less rain.

Apparently though, I think in Babylon/Sumeria(or most of ancient middle east) used to think that Saturn was actually the "Sun" being seen at night, an yet, still the center of the universe.

Saturn an Satan have nothing in common, but they play the role of a cosmic crown attorney of the universe.

a reply to: St Udio

Eh St Udio, can you expand on that? I don't get your expression about being out of sync. Do events or lessons of your life to do with the areas Saturn Return symbolizes happen in a different timeframe?

a reply to: Specimen88

Saturn symbolism is a fascinating area of study. For me, mythology is to society as dreams are to the individual. The keys within, as handed down through the ages are there for us to take a look at. The principles at work behind these ideas, help us to map the depths of the psyche while reminding us that others of been through similar growing pains before.

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

That it is, an it gets elaborate with pantheons personified based off the movements of the planets an the sun, an how they would interpret it. Like Osiris, possibly being the Egypt concept of Saturn, while Greece used Chronos, while Zeus an Set being Jupiter.

Quite a role reversal if you ask me, but yea, it does feel like looking at the past. Saturn also the last planet that can be seem by the naked eye too I think.

a reply to: Drucifer

I've been thinking some more about what you had mentioned earlier, about your experience unloading on your dad and how it helped with your drinking. I used to binge drink a lot in my younger years, once the door opened to start healing with my dad I noticed my drug and alcohol consumption cut back almost overnight. I enjoyed it more, so this made it easier to practice moderation.

When I think of the 27 Club, Amy Winehouse comes to mind. She was really talented, and I wonder if she had any awareness about the concept of Saturn Return. I recall reading anecdotes mentioning she may have been fearful about that time. I believe she may have passed from alcohol withdrawals.

A part of me had been deeply worried about someone else more recently. I wonder about those in the music industry and how challenging it can be to reconcile one's artistic aspirations with their higher ideals. It's like we want to be the best us, but our ways of expressing that don't always fit in the images others hold of us. Doesn't matter though, as they practice marching towards their dreams, the light shines.



I've never been good with boundaries, I think part of Saturn Return is learning it's ok to pursue who we are, even if that means having to let go of the past, or relationships that are unsupportive. Often I used to feel like a ship without a rudder, in fog being thrashed by the waves. I swim much better now, lol.

One of the lessons Saturn Return taught me was about time management. The type to be constantly on the run, I always have a mission on my mind.My martian sensibilities had me waging a war on time. I always felt vexed with the clock, never enough time to do what I need or want.

It's about needs vs wants, and that is in Saturn's wheelhouse. Balance has been an issue for me, and balancing my needs and wants with others requires constant practice. I learned to look at my needs and wants in contrast with others.I try to put my needs ahead of my wants, others' needs ahead of their wants, and my needs ahead of others' needs depending on their safety. Often going about it like this, my wants are addressed as I help others with their needs. Now I have all the time I need. My sleepless nights are over, and when I say "No," I am much more confident.

I spent some time looking up songs that may have to do with Saturn Return. The somber reflections this kind of music holds, tend to harsh my mellow though. That tool song definitely captures the vibe, the writer looks to have been there...

originally posted by: Specimen88
a reply to: dffrntkndfnml
That it is, an it gets elaborate with pantheons personified based off the movements of the planets an the sun, an how they would interpret it. Like Osiris, possibly being the Egypt concept of Saturn, while Greece used Chronos, while Zeus an Set being Jupiter.

I believe the energies the archetypes represent manifest constantly and the similarities between the traits of different deities through history are a reflection of that. It's so cool to be able to explore this through the lens of different cultures.

originally posted by: Specimen88
Quite a role reversal if you ask me, but yea, it does feel like looking at the past. Saturn also the last planet that can be seen by the naked eye too I think.

I looked into the Saturn Return happening now, lots of info about it in Capricorn, and now moving through Aquarius, an area to investigate further as time permits. As far as your insight about seeing it with the naked eye, I have my suspicions that Saturn's energies encourage us to come to the understanding of the physical in order to use what we've learned, and apply it on a higher plane.

I was talking about themes revolving around this last weekend with my parents. There's more I'll share down the road, I have higher aspirations atm.

Anyways, my dad was talking to me. We were talking about the crossroads the world finds itself in atm.

Geopolitics

I'm not sure how long my dad will be around, and after not talking for many years I practice trying to hear him out. It's hard bearing with him though sometimes. It's just challenging trying to get a word in edgewise when it's about matters dear to him...

Anyways, he starts reviewing recent history. Overseas, and what should be done.

I asked him some challenging questions, and his silence spoke volumes. Then he brings up the French Revolution, again. Hunger, thirst, disappointment, death and taxes.

He mentioned overpopulation and the challenges posed by climate change. I told him we have the technology, we just need to come together and practice using it responsibly.

To top it off, I caught myself smoking inside the house at that moment.:facepalm:

I felt fired up! He starts describing his perspective on the infection going around and asking me about what the purpose of such research is? He's like what if the newer ones are more dangerous. Not sure, but I have found that one is good, two is not bad, and 3 tends to be better. I feel the newer ones will be milder.

I've been behaving like an idiot lately, so him reminding me of why was helpful. I told him I'm not here to judge or try to reinvent the wheel. Imo, it's all been done before.

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely", yada yada yada.

"Have you given up hope?" I asked, no response.

I told him some attempt to play both sides against the middle. It's a dilemna of sorts.

I reminded him, people just need to practice putting their best foot forward and practise communicating with one another. I told him it's just a matter of practicing finding the right words to get a message across...

Well, I reminded him that I'm the type that prefers to explore ideas, and that what goes on in other countries isn't any of my business. However, I have no issue practicing standing up for what I believe in, and doing my best to look after those I care about. I quickly changed the subject.

Music has been on my mind, one of my girls gave me a new keyboard. My dad loves music so it seemed appropriate. So, I started sharing with him how I feel about some of the artists I brought up earlier.

I asked him if he sees what we all have in common? Silence.

I told him that the internet is around their age and that collectively we are at a crossroads wrestling with issues to do with that time frame. Individually, and collectively. I practice remaining cautiously optimistic, we've been through darker times, and finer minds than me are all over the place practicing their best to point us in the right direction.

Reflecting on my research, brought to mind that it takes about 10 000 hours to master a skill. I feel with this, it's no different. So many sleepless nights and individuals searching through conflicting information to practice doing their best with what they got?

The last time we grappled with similar issues, an infection like this, it passed in four years, iirc. I remind myself, we matured collectively since back then, so hopefully, soon we will get back to the lifestyles we really enjoy living.

Others have been there before, individuals each have their own lessons to learn, and grow at their own pace. The environment and timing of their journey are as unique to them as they are. I feel those lessons are more universal, however.

“The thoughts of youth,' he continued, 'are bright lights that shine forth like the meteors that oft make brilliant the sky, but the wisdom of age is like the fixed stars that shine so unchanged that the sailor may depend upon them to steer his course.”
- George Samuel Clason

There's more about Saturn Return, I'd like to share, time is limited at the moment.