Exploring Saturn Return

There is a concept called Saturn Return in astrology.An awareness of Saturn Return and the energy it represents can help shed light on some of the growing pains individuals face.Here's hoping that this info helps to take the edge off some of that stress...


Various qualities are arch-typically associated with Saturn.Setting limits, time, material attachments, the limitations of the material world, wisdom and bridging into the spiritual world are some of the facets that are usually brought up when contemplating Saturn.

Saturn's Astrological Symbol: Matter (cross) taking precedence over mind or human spirit (crescent).The crescent is reminiscent of the sickle, and how Saturn represents an archetype for death, and harvesting.






In the classical world, the Greek myth of Cronus (father time) helps to portray the energies at work.The titan has been suggested to be another incarnation of Chronos, an even older god.

Cronus was the youngest of the Titans, a child of Uranus (Heaven) and Gaea (Earth).Uranus was horrified by his children, imperfect and made of flesh.He bound them in the darkness of the underworld, much to the dismay of Gaea.He didn't want them to see light.

She grew angry and plotted revenge.She fashioned a scythe (variation of a sickle), and asked her children to punish their father for his misdeeds.An astute Cronus rose to the task, fearless amoungst his brethren.

At nightfall, Uranus went to join his wife.When he fell asleep, Cronus castrated his father and threw his genitals into the sea.He freed the titans and ruled over the earth for a period known as a Golden Age, presiding over the cycles of seasons, birth, growth, death and rebirth viewed as both a grim reaper who set the boundaries between which man and nature could not go, and as a fertility god.

Ironically, myth has it that Cronus could not accept the laws he put into place, a prophecy predicted that one of his own son's would overthrow him.He took to swallowing his children in an attempt to keep his rule.His son Zeus overthrew him, and started the reign of the Olympians.

Cronus fate varies in different accounts.Some have Cronus banished into the underworld.Another chained within a cave (Nyx), asleep,drunk on honey,dreaming and prophesying.Another has him reigning or asleep in the Blessed Isles.

Going further back, Chronos was envisioned as self formed god, emerging at the beginning of time.Serpent like, and having three heads (man,bull, and lion) His partner entwined serpentine with him was Ananke (fate) and their coils constricted and split into the earth, heaven and the sea.These forces of fate and time, were thought to drive the rotation of the heavens through the never ending passage of time.

In other traditions, El(Monotheistic god of the Canaanites), Saturn(Romans), Kumarbi(Hurrians), are associated with this myth.



Saturn takes about 29.5 years orbit the sun, and the effects of it's return generally are felt in a window anywhere between the ages of 27-30.Another return happens typically around the ages of 58 or so.

In our modern culture, the 20's for many aren't a particularly serious time.Alot of us are still busy discovering, experimenting and generally run quite wild.The invincible feeling of youth, hasn't left yet and it can often be easy to avoid responsibility without having to suffer too much.This attitude often stands in sharp contrast to their's in the 30's.Talking to older friends can really help to shed light on this.I believe in more ancient times, the time frame for the first Saturn Return played an even more pivotal role given that life expectancy was much less.

Usually this time one is forced to take a look at the effect of karma in their lives, the fruits of the lessons learned to do with wisdom and maturity.This can be a particularly chaotic time for many, depending on the kinds of personal choices and lifestyle one has led up to that point.Lessons that have been avoided, are learned the hard way if necessary.Time to grow up or face the consequences.

Keep an eye out for depression.Saturn Return is known to be a time full of melancholy for people.Often people can be afraid to let go of the things, the changes around this time are suggesting.This reluctance usually compounds the suffering one experiences.

People tend to take stock of themselves, examining the structures in their lives.Relationships, career choices, friendships, your sanity and life itself are all areas that one may be forced to look at, during this time.As with myths associated with Saturn, daddy issues need to be worked out.Self-limitation, discipline and planning are all ways that can be used to open up new opportunities, as what isn't working is thrown out.As father time highlights one's own mortality, it gives a chance for someone to grab the bull by the horns and really start to make something of their lives.

I often wonder how many members of the 27 Club were grappling with the kind of challenges that the period of Saturn Return signifies?Had they known some info about this phenomena, perhaps it would have enabled them to make different decisions ?

That Chronus certainly had 'daddy issues' !
Ouch !
I guess that's why Uranus now keeps his balls close by !

S&F

Excellent description of Saturn and his return!

I just thought I'd add that with Saturn entering Sagittarius the beginning of October (this year), those born between mid-November 1985 and mid-February 1987 will be experiencing their (first) Saturn return between now and about the beginning of 2017, when Saturn enters Capricorn.

Those born between about the end of March 1956 and December 1958 (and the first few days of 1959) will be experiencing their (second) Saturn Return during this time.

I certainly enjoyed Saturn return. Not because it felt good, or fun, but because I can finally see things clearly and calm the **** down. I'm a Capricorn so I guess Saturn return might be like a home coming back to me. I'm 30 right now, this has been an interesting year. It's going to be very interesting when my Cancer wife encounters this in 2 years. Thank you for the info OP.

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

Fantastic thread - I am 25 years old right now but I feel as though my life became much more serious (no more fun and games) at about 24 or so, maybe my "Saturn Return" was early or maybe it is still yet to come.

Thanks so much for sharing this information - S & F my friend

that means my parents, my brother, and I were all experiencing Saturns return the last 3 years.

I'm 30 now, Both my parents turned 60 this year. My brother is also 29. My whole family experienced this around the same time then?

Is that right?

So let me understand this. Your birthday is the start point of Saturns, we'll say "home"? Saturn takes 29.5 years to orbit the sun. After 29.5 years it returns to its home, around your birthday.
So Saturns effect on your consciousness returns every roughly 29.5 years from the time your birth?

Interesting, because the last 3 years of my life have been a huge learning experience personally, worldly, and relationship wise.
I've started a business. Started and ended a relationship which lasted from 27 years old to 30 years old, had some coming to terms with my parents. Talked my mom out of being Catholic, talked my Dad out of having faith in the government.

On a side note, some people theorize the twin towers were supposedly taken down as Satan worship.
Satan is a metaphor for Saturn. The twin towers were built 1971 to 73. On the cutting of the ribbon Saturn was in Gemini, the sign of the twins. We all know what happened on Saturns return roughly 30 years later.

at the 1:20 minute mark in this video Santos Bonacci talks about some of the connections between Saturn and 911

Saturn is a very interesting subject. thanks for the OP

a reply to: radarloveguy

LOL, I tell you one thing.I have never looked at rings the same!

a reply to: Boadicea

Thanks for the heads up.I find the art of Astrology productive for exploring Jung's ideas of the collective unconscious.Individuals milage varies.I don't think that should stop us, from the practice of trying to understand what this gift has to offer.The insights can be priceless.

a reply to: FamCore

Thank you.It's encouraging to get some positive feedback.My interest in astrology lays in the different ways energy flows.I have found it useful for exploring the range of probabilities coming into one's focus.It's challenging trying to imagine everything.

Time is a mystery.I feel it's flow ties into our own experience at varying degrees.I will flesh out the op gradually, with how I feel it has reflects itself personally.

a reply to: booyakasha

Astrology isn't one of my strength's.I feel events aren't set in stone.It does provide another perspective for us to consider.Becoming more familiar with this understanding, can help turn the tides.It has really helped limit the pain I used to feel, when I thought life was trying to single me out.I'm still practicing dealing with that. Thank goodness, I'm grateful to be able to laugh about it now.

Jung's ideas suggest to me, we all experience similar opportunities to grow in our lives.Those lessons vary depending on how well we practice listening to our hearts.

The events of 911 forced me to question everything I believe in.I'm still doing that.I'm not big into politics.





Thanks, everyone.:brofist:

This is Stellarium software. You can see the night sky from your location in real time, or change to any other time in history. www.stellarium.org...

This website shows where all the planets are in the solar system in real time, or any other time in history. www.fourmilab.ch...

This is the Cassini Solstice Mission. saturn.jpl.nasa.gov...

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml

Daddy Issues

I started my family in my early 20's.It was pretty scary to realize that I was going to have to start living life with greater responsibilities.The myth of Cronus touches on this aspect of life, I'll flesh out a little of what it means to me.I find this myth deals alot with existential angst, and how it can play out...

The union of Uranus and Gaea can evoke one's perspective on the play between heaven and earth in our lives.It can represent the union between spirit and matter or the dichotomy that exists between them depending one's feelings about the existence of duality.Enmity or harmony?

Growing up, I had issues with my Dad.My parents divorced when I was in my sophmore year of high school, and I became upset with him.Our relationship became incredibly strained.In my younger years, I always felt closer to my mom.

I lived the next years of my life, carrying a grudge that was slowly eating away at me.After some years, starting my own family in my early 20's had me having to face these issues on another level.It started taking a toll on me, after my children were a little older.I feel like the things I thought could be better, I'd do better then him.Unfortunately, the things I held against him took away from my efforts at being the king of my own castle.I found myself in his shoes, in more ways then one trying to make my own family life, myself.It was a rather sobering experience.

Having children is a blessing, that hopefully encourages one consider their deeper feelings about all aspects of life.It's natural to want to give the best to our children.

Cronus tale reminds me of the adversity I felt towards my dad, and how when I cut what he represented away from me, I still had to face what that meant to work through.Alot of lessons there, that new parents encounter when they switch role from children into adults.Depending on your age, I found this dynamic more common in my friends during the time of Saturn return.

Having the responsibility and privilege of being in charge of children, encouraged me to come to terms with the bigger questions of life.Remarkably it wasn't till my late 20's, did the clarity come to start looking at it, in a more healthy fashion.

Dealing with finding my deepest feelings about time, and the attachments to the ideas of life, can make one confront their own sense of mortality, and the seeds of what one wants to do for the future.

Once a more healthy attitude towards the feelings of disappointment towards my dad, had the room to replace my animosity, I was able to replace the ways I thought I could do better, with the results I was looking for.First, I had to swallow my pride.I had to admit that being a father, was such a greater blessing and responsibility them I imagined.After alot of healing we are able to have the kind of relationship I craved, all those years I had been upset with him.I feel like the world became bigger, and I had more room to grow.

Conversely, I found that making peace with him, enabled me to have a deeper understanding of my life, in the light of my spiritual interests.I feel the energy that was being consumed by my daddy issues, has now been freed to flower into being the best dad, I can be.I think for those exploring the parental archetypes of their life, taking some time to work on and reflect on one's mother and father, can really help at some balance to who they feel about their place in the universe.

I lean to Cronus being asleep in the Blessed Isles.I feel that the lessons Saturn Return brings, can enter life as a grounding influence once realized...

Neptune return is something to strive for. I have 100 years left, any bets?
Perhaps someday, someone will experience a Neptune return!

The first Saturn return is the birth of true adulthood where the lesson to be learnt is how to be disciplined and learn to use time efficiently in your daily life. It can be a time of restriction. If these lessons are not learnt thing will reappear at the next one (late 50s to early 60s) but the challenge will be harsher.

a reply to: Tiger5

I'm aways off from second Saturn return. I imagine being older, it could really be taxing. Interesting times though, in light of demographics and the number of Baby Boomers. Hopefully humanity becomes more tempered, with all those older members of society.It could help add some balance to all the technology in the future...

originally posted by: dffrntkndfnml
a reply to: Tiger5

I'm aways off from second Saturn return. I imagine being older, it could really be taxing. Interesting times though, in light of demographics and the number of Baby Boomers. Hopefully humanity becomes more tempered, with all those older members of society.It could help add some balance to all the technology in the future...

For what it's worth, Saturn will again be in full opposition (closet to Earth and facing the sun so it will be easily visible from Earth) on June 15, 2017.

So if I follow what you're saying correctly, those people in their 50's may feel the effects that you spoke of on or near that date. Is that correct?

a reply to: Riffrafter

It has to do with where Saturn was at your time of birth, taking about 29 or so years to return.l Those around 29, and 58 may feel Saturn returns energy next year.

With regard to the Baby Boomers, they oldest would have second Saturn return around 2004. The youngest, 2022. (This if you run that generation from 1946 to 1964.) I wonder how this period will be remembered, and what kind of changes we'll see in 5 years. ..

originally posted by: dffrntkndfnml
There is a concept called Saturn Return in astrology.An awareness of Saturn Return and the energy it represents can help shed light on some of the growing pains individuals face.Here's hoping that this info helps to take the edge off some of that stress...


Various qualities are arch-typically associated with Saturn.Setting limits, time, material attachments, the limitations of the material world, wisdom and bridging into the spiritual world are some of the facets that are usually brought up when contemplating Saturn.

Saturn's Astrological Symbol: Matter (cross) taking precedence over mind or human spirit (crescent).The crescent is reminiscent of the sickle, and how Saturn represents an archetype for death, and harvesting.

In the classical world, the Greek myth of Cronus (father time) helps to portray the energies at work.The titan has been suggested to be another incarnation of Chronos, an even older god.

Cronus was the youngest of the Titans, a child of Uranus (Heaven) and Gaea (Earth).Uranus was horrified by his children, imperfect and made of flesh.He bound them in the darkness of the underworld, much to the dismay of Gaea.He didn't want them to see light.

She grew angry and plotted revenge.She fashioned a scythe (variation of a sickle), and asked her children to punish their father for his misdeeds.An astute Cronus rose to the task, fearless amoungst his brethren.

At nightfall, Uranus went to join his wife.When he fell asleep, Cronus castrated his father and threw his genitals into the sea.He freed the titans and ruled over the earth for a period known as a Golden Age, presiding over the cycles of seasons, birth, growth, death and rebirth viewed as both a grim reaper who set the boundaries between which man and nature could not go, and as a fertility god.

Ironically, myth has it that Cronus could not accept the laws he put into place, a prophecy predicted that one of his own son's would overthrow him.He took to swallowing his children in an attempt to keep his rule.His son Zeus overthrew him, and started the reign of the Olympians.

Cronus fate varies in different accounts.Some have Cronus banished into the underworld.Another chained within a cave (Nyx), asleep,drunk on honey,dreaming and prophesying.Another has him reigning or asleep in the Blessed Isles.

Going further back, Chronos was envisioned as self formed god, emerging at the beginning of time.Serpent like, and having three heads (man,bull, and lion) His partner entwined serpentine with him was Ananke (fate) and their coils constricted and split into the earth, heaven and the sea.These forces of fate and time, were thought to drive the rotation of the heavens through the never ending passage of time.

In other traditions, El(Monotheistic god of the Canaanites), Saturn(Romans), Kumarbi(Hurrians), are associated with this myth.



Saturn takes about 29.5 years orbit the sun, and the effects of it's return generally are felt in a window anywhere between the ages of 27-30.Another return happens typically around the ages of 58 or so.

In our modern culture, the 20's for many aren't a particularly serious time.Alot of us are still busy discovering, experimenting and generally run quite wild.The invincible feeling of youth, hasn't left yet and it can often be easy to avoid responsibility without having to suffer too much.This attitude often stands in sharp contrast to their's in the 30's.Talking to older friends can really help to shed light on this.I believe in more ancient times, the time frame for the first Saturn Return played an even more pivotal role given that life expectancy was much less.

Usually this time one is forced to take a look at the effect of karma in their lives, the fruits of the lessons learned to do with wisdom and maturity.This can be a particularly chaotic time for many, depending on the kinds of personal choices and lifestyle one has led up to that point.Lessons that have been avoided, are learned the hard way if necessary.Time to grow up or face the consequences.

Keep an eye out for depression.Saturn Return is known to be a time full of melancholy for people.Often people can be afraid to let go of the things, the changes around this time are suggesting.This reluctance usually compounds the suffering one experiences.

People tend to take stock of themselves, examining the structures in their lives.Relationships, career choices, friendships, your sanity and life itself are all areas that one may be forced to look at, during this time.As with myths associated with Saturn, daddy issues need to be worked out.Self-limitation, discipline and planning are all ways that can be used to open up new opportunities, as what isn't working is thrown out.As father time highlights one's own mortality, it gives a chance for someone to grab the bull by the horns and really start to make something of their lives.

I often wonder how many members of the 27 Club were grappling with the kind of challenges that the period of Saturn Return signifies?Had they known some info about this phenomena, perhaps it would have enabled them to make different decisions ?

yes...
OURANUS was "Edens realm"
which kronos, saturn, destroyed

..kronos was "fed a stone, wrapped in linnen",
which "he vomited out again"
- the stone is this earth ; the linen this sky of earth ; kronos the pillar ;
...saturn creating our present Dislocated earth, with its "second sky"....

all spells state how H'eth'er , hathor, saturn,
rules earth by inserting her commands [depicted as the sistrum, 'sounds' -- look up "sounds of saturn", plasma entering earth via the magnetic northpole]
- i hate them.

a reply to: Riffrafter


Nope a Saturn return occurs when Saturn returns to the position it had at the time of the individual's birth. The first Saturn return occurs just before 30 because the orbit of Saturn is 29.44 years. Therefore the second Saturn return occurs when the individual is 58.88 etc.

originally posted by: Tiger5
The first Saturn return is the birth of true adulthood where the lesson to be learnt is how to be disciplined and learn to use time efficiently in your daily life. It can be a time of restriction. If these lessons are not learnt thing will reappear at the next one (late 50s to early 60s) but the challenge will be harsher.

This can be a very scary prospect. Individuals grow at different rates, so it's important to practice putting your best foot forward from then on.

Confronting the adversity of older individuals (2nd return) who are unconscious of the energies at play is similar to someone who suspects you're more interested in trespassing, then pointing out their house is on fire. All they need to do is look behind them to see for themselves...

a reply to: FamCore



I know it's been a long time since we talked,
I remember the long walks,
and going to the park.
Playing games in green fields,
and watching nature shows.
The strange conversions we had,
Me and you my dad.
Your love would bring,
happiness to everything.

On the trip to the ocean,
You told me to come closer.
I was scared,
"Come deeper into the shallows"
You said "See, hold my hand"
The fears of a 3 year old,
looking up to his dad.
You told me about what you read,
Shared about what you think,
and tucked me into bed.

A little bit older,
Your dreams for us began to stop,
You were cheated out of your job.
You were never shy of work,
Just didn't know what else to do,
The world started to get the better of you.

You loved your trade,
And despised what had happened,
To the life you made.
Our family started fighting,
There was no rest,
And your love became a test.

We wanted to come together,
And see through the stormy weather.
We didn't know what to do,
When we felt we couldn't talk to you.

Emotions distracted us,
From the trusting in love,
So we had to leave,
And did something you couldn't believe.

I thought I did the right thing,
I was looking for security,
When I wanted to get back in touch,
You let loose your fury.

I never forgot the good times,
Or how you treated us before,
When you lost your temper,
Sadness started to grow,
Stronger than ever.

Sadness turned into melancholy within.
This was the beginning,
Of pain replacing love,
As my teacher,
Burying what I couldn't understand,
Deeper, ever deeper.

I did well in school,
Academically surpassing you,
I was glad,
Took pride in the work of my hands,
I thought I could have
Whatever I could grab.

I loved learning science,
Figuring out,
How to control,
The elements at my disposal.
You told me take a trade,
Not listening then,
Was my biggest mistake.

With a full scholarship,
I studied the environment.
Mastering theory,
I looked forward to an internship.
I ended up in a toxic land,
Labouring with poison.
I didn't understand,
Remedation is not always healing,
Worked till the end,
Stood as one of the last ones left.

Environmental,
Made me more mental,
When I graduated,
I decided,
To say to hell with it all.

Went back to cooking,
Something I was good at.
Through my love,
The food tasted great.
Even then though,
I was always arrived late,
Something felt wrong,
When I manned the oven.
The fire burnt too hot.
I'd throw in another log,
Hungry, hungry, hungry,
No matter how much I ate.

I met someone,
Couldn't believe it,
Even still.

Here was the chance for me,
To put an end to my misery.
Everthing that went wrong
Was your fault all along,
Now I had a chance to set things right,
Once and for all.

Still young enough to hate you,
Now was a chance to completely forget,
I could do better than you,
And I set this in the stone,
My heart had become.

Someone new to love,
An angel in disguise,
My first born on the way,
And a beautiful wife.

More determined than ever,
I went back to school.
Computer programming,
An abstract expression,
Another lesson,
That appeared to be a strait line,
To everything my life was missing.

Yet not matter,
How hard I tried,
Nothing went right.
Graduated frustrated,
My life became a lie.

I couldn't keep,
What I hadn't earned,
Lashed out at everything good.
Went job to job,
looking harder, and further outside.

Pain eating me up,
A heart scarred,
Caged within invisible bars,
In an immense prison.
I cried to the heavens,
In frustration,
And tried to rip the all the stars out of the sky.

The day I took your advice,
And took up a trade,
Was the day,
Everything started to change.

I put my tail between my legs,
And started working with real men.
Everday was a challenge,
That molded me into shape.
They took the time to help me,
Understand my mistakes.

They could see through me,
I could finally be myself,
They wouldn't put up with excuses,
Their truth could not be denied,
Honesty, self discipline, and hard work,
Do every job right.
They took me under their wing,
Showing me how to reach for the right things.

I started to take responsiblity,
For everything in my life,
Looked in the mirror,
Stared into my eyes,
When I realized how much you loved me,
I completely lost my mind.
Insane in the hospital,
I faced everything again,
Again for the very first time.

All along others were trying to remind me,
Of the all words I put in your mouth,
You never said you didn't love me,
Even though I fed the doubt.

It was time for me to be a man,
Another first in my life,
Take control,
Help others,
Clear up misunderstandings.

What this lesson has taught me,
Is hard to put into words,
No wonder I was so blind,
To you trying to show us how much you cared,
During those tough times.

I'm ready to listen now,
Learn from you,
Not pain.
You didn't want things to be this way,
I promise never again.

I'm sorry it took so long,
For me to write this letter,
When I had children,
I should have known better.
We still have a long way to go,
but now we are all finally together.

my Saturn return was pretty brutal, I had to face leaving behind an athletic career due to multiple injuries and losing sponsors and ability