It's time to wake up!

a reply to: daskakik

There is no guarantee that they will get there.

You wont know until you try right?
But not being successfully that is your own fault and nobody else is to blame. If you are blaming someone else for your own inability of silencing the mind, than you are just childish and irrational. That is why I think meditation is avoided. You cannot point fingers here at nobody but yourself in the mirror all the while all the time!

Who is controlling your mind? you or somebody else? Who else but YOU can guarantee that you are really meditating and by that I mean being silent? Honesty to yourself and patience is the key word here! This is like training a muscle and to heavy lift you must train a lot. It is the same in meditation. Only difference being, here it shows how true you really are! If there will be little silence there will be little progress. So you must be true to yourself and be patiently silent and nothing more is required.

If you would try you would notice how your mind is like a monkey, jumping from thought to thought. You yourself must clear your own mind no one else can do that.
That is why strong will is important so you can get through your own imaginations and concepts.

If you really want to do it you will, it is as simple as that. EVERYONE knows what silence means - at beginning even for a few seconds, everyone can do it. Prolonging that to a few minutes and than hours and so on that is than real meditation all else is just thinking!

well it the way i see it is. if you look at history there has always been individuals at different levels...those who are in power and those who are not. whoever is in power simply will not care about those who they control because if they did they would not be in control over them.

so how would we be able to ALL reach a state of awareness and be connected with everyone when those in power would have to be conscious of how they are affecting those who they control?

a reply to: UniFinity

Whether someone can or cannot silence their thoughts doesn't change the fact that you have no way of actually providing proof, which was the original point that someone made, to which you responded by saying that the burden is not on those making the claim.

a reply to: daskakik

of course it is not, that is just nonsense people like to sprout like it was any other thing. This is the core of your own being we are taking about not something simple you decide over internet?
You must realize that taking this into real consideration for any atheist means totally changing his core and I do not know you. But any proof somebody could show me over the internet would not be good for me. So if you want VALID proof you must get it yourself by experience, which I had also explained how and even what is the main problem.

Silence is so simple, yet so illusive.

Thank you for debating, you have produced some interesting thoughts for me but I have enough now because we are going in circles.

a reply to: UniFinity

You keep talking about me when I am not the subject matter.

The matter at hand is "what is proof?" and "can you provide it to others?".

Proof is something that you can share, show or demonstrate to others.

Can you do this? You have already said that you can't.

So, when someone claims that those of us who have experienced something can't prove it, they are right.

Did you catch that?

a reply to: daskakik

Well I am debating with you, so you were/are my subject

So, when someone claims that those of us who have experienced something can't prove it, they are right.

Did you catch that?

yes I finally agree with you on something, hah! that is why I never claimed to prove anything to anyone.

But that is not the same as to say, that there is NO proof whatsoever, like many people claim! This is one of things I am trying to express...be your own person and draw your own conclusions from experiences. But a person must show desire and some action which can yield some result. This action can be exploration by meditation, drugs, dreams or any other paranormal subjects.

I bet if atheists would take ayahuasca, which is an immediate short cut to astral plains. Majority would realize how wrong were in their belief that they are only the body based on normal waking state. This is evident in many atheist people who tried it for instance...

a reply to: UniFinity

Well it seems like you just don't want to accept the definition of proof in the way that others are using it.

What's with the atheist bashing?

I'm an atheist. Having had OBEs for that last 30 years is what made me an atheist.

Let me guess, you don't accept the definition of atheist?

a reply to: daskakik

your definition:

Proof is something that you can share, show or demonstrate to others.

I like it just fine. Maybe I should revisit my words and instead of proof, I should just stick with experience. I apologize for the confusion.
But I wonder, how would you then label that experience by which you decide your beliefs, for instance OBE? Is that experience not proof for you personally? I am confused. Is there a better term for personal "proofs" which are not shared, shown or demonstrated to others?

Sorry I don't bother particularly with exact definitions. For me the point is important. When I said atheist, I simply meant people who think that they are the body and say that there is no life after death. If there is better term for that category, please teach me.

You seem like very interesting person with your stance considering your experiences. How would you define divine entity aka. god and where you in any religion before OBEs?

originally posted by: UniFinity
But I wonder, how would you then label that experience by which you decide your beliefs, for instance OBE? Is that experience not proof for you personally? I am confused. Is there a better term for personal "proofs" which are not shared, shown or demonstrated to others?

The term for that is "subjective proof".

Of course, this is not the proof that others are asking for. When someone asks for proof from someone else it is understood that it isn't subjective proof because that is only proof for the individual.

Sorry I don't bother particularly with exact definitions. For me the point is important. When I said atheist, I simply meant people who think that they are the body and say that there is no life after death. If there is better term for that category, please teach me.

The term used for someone who believes "this" is all that exists and there is nothing else is "materialist".

You seem like very interesting person with your stance considering your experiences. Where you in any religion before OBEs?

I was a christian.

a reply to: daskakik

cool, thanks for learning me something new today!

I understand now why you have became atheist. Makes sense!

Have you ever used OBEs for learning and try to understand what it all means or what kinda realms exists? If utilized in this why it is a great tool.

What have you concluded in general about the real nature of our reality, if anything at all?

I would love to hear it from you!

a reply to: UniFinity

I think it would take more than a few OBE's/psychedelic experiences to conclude that one isn't his body and call those experiences "evidence".
For example you can have people have all sorts of OBE's but when they're sober again they can simply dismiss the experiences as "something that happened at the level of the brain, I am still my body and all of those experiences were hallucinations"
So while those experiences may be mind opening I find the best evidence to rational minded people is to consciously explore the connection between the mind-body and consciousness. Understanding consciousness is the main factor. If one understand consicousness is non-local then the rest should make more sense. So in many cases it might take more then a few OBE's to conclude this.

originally posted by: UniFinity
I understand now why you have became atheist. Makes sense!

Probably not what you are thinking.

Have you ever used OBEs for learning and try to understand what it all means or what kinda realms exists? If utilized in this why it is a great tool.

I'd have to ask, a great tool for what?

What have you concluded in general about the real nature of our reality, if anything at all?

Nothing conclusive. The reason that I asked the question above is because it doesn't matter if you think life is a place to work off negative karma, a school, a virtual reality game, all those examples have one thing in common, the purpose is not to awaken but to be absorbed and get lost in the experience.

The only scenario in which waking up would be desired is in the prison planet scenario. Even then you would think that the keepers of the prison planet will take the proper steps to keep things rolling.

So the OP and similar fears about saving humanity and saving the planet are really not born out of spirituality but instead they are a product of fear, human fear.

a reply to: Andy1144

yes, good point.

many would probably still deny the experience even though in real OBE you can go wherever you like on our planet or else where. And you can see if you are on earth all the people or animals and their auras or many other things like spirits etc.. So if by then they still remain in their usual beliefs, well that is their choice...

But after d m t trip there is a lot of users that change their beliefs and they view it as some kind of spiritual experience and not like same local event due to all the amazing stuff which happens while you are under influence. This is hard to deny. Or so I heard from various people on documentaries or in real life.

a reply to: daskakik

I posted: Have you ever used OBEs for learning and try to understand what it all means or what kinda realms exists? If utilized in this why it is a great tool.

you say: great tool for what?

what you quoted already, what is confusing about that? haha
--
While you are OBE did you met a guide already? You may not belief in such things but they exists and can help you understand things and what you need to understand at your current level of development. But only if you want it to happen. Everything is connected with desires.

I use OBE mainly for exploration of what it possible and how I can gain better understanding of the real nature of our reality.

I don't believe in prison planet and such things and I had no experience to conclude that, so this is BS for me for now. I am more inclined towards teachings about Buddhist, Zen, Hinduism, advita vedanta, Taoism and other religions. This is where the juice of truth is for me.
www.theself.com...

Human fear is a valid point. It all depends on the person for me. Some are like you say and some do stuff from real compassion and love.

originally posted by: UniFinity
what you quoted already, what is confusing about that? haha

The point was tied to what I posted after that. A great tool to gain understanding of reality to help you wake up, as the OP proposes, works against the purpose of the human experience, unless the human experience is a trap.

You say you don't believe in that so then, what is the point of using this great tool?

An oversimplified example would be filling out yesterdays crossword puzzle while looking at the solution in today's paper. While it is true that having the solution in front of you, to help fill in the little boxes with the correct letters is a great tool, it defeats the purpose of the crossword puzzle.

a reply to: daskakik

well that is your opinion. It is great and I respect it but my is different.

Why is it working against the purpose of the human experience?

As I said for me this is about exploring and learning about myself and real nature while in astral.
End goal is self-realization or yoga (union), this for me is the point of human life and after that it is shearing the knowledge around to curious beings!

I do not agree with your example, because I think that there are no such obvious solutions even if you can go OBE. But while in OBE this opens up a whole different aspect of reality and learning lessons.

originally posted by: UniFinity
Why is it working against the purpose of the human experience?

Because the purpose of the human experience is to be human, with all its limtations and the need to struggle.

End goal is self-realization or yoga (union), this for me is the point of human life and after that it is shearing the knowledge around to curious beings!

That doesn't make sense. You are a soul tha incarnated so that it could figure out that it is a soul?

I do not agree with your example, because I think that there are no such obvious solutions even if you can go OBE.

But that is what you are looking for.

a reply to: daskakik

Because the purpose of the human experience is to be human, with all its limtations and the need to struggle.

why do you think that? I am interested were or how did you manage to conclude that is the purpose for you? It sounds grim and a lot like one of the four noble truths of the Buddhists. Life is suffering - but for them this is only acceptance of the condition and you can change with right thought, talk and action. This is the basis of Buddhists teaching.
Link to four noble truths:
en.wikipedia.org...

That doesn't make sense. You are a soul tha incarnated so that it could figure out that it is a soul?

Union of the relative and absolute into one. I may be a soul but I do not experience it as such. For now I can only say for sure that I have a human body with a soul. But experience of the soul is still missing. First there should be experience and than union. Well so the yogis, rishis, gurus, and other masters teach...

But that is what you are looking for.

When I started spiritual path, this was one of the goals to reach. But with further study of various religions and spiritual texts I have developed and changed my goals further it is an ongoing process.

originally posted by: UniFinity
why do you think that? I am interested were or how did you manage to conclude that is the purpose for you? It sounds grim and a lot like one of the four noble truths of the Buddhists. Life is suffering - but for them this is only acceptance of the condition, but not the final state or goal.

It's the most obvious answer.

Union of the relative and absolute into one. I may be a soul but I do not experience it as such. For know I can only say for sure that I have a human body with a soul. But experience of the soul is still missing. First there should be experience and than union. Well so the yogis, rishis, gurus, and other masters teach...

The site you linked talks about infinite consciousness. It talks about it as exisiting before the experience that comes before union. "The One unity alone exists forever".

Sounds exactly like what I said.

When I started spiritual path, this was one of the goals to reach. But with further study of various religions and spiritual texts I have developed and changed my goals further it is an ongoing process.

But you are still talking in those terms.

The site you linked talks about infinite consciousness. It talks about it as exisiting before the experience that comes before union. "The One unity alone exists forever".

Sounds exactly like what I said.

yes, it talks about that and many other things. If you would take your time to really read and contemplated all that is written and what they are pointing to. you would understand more in depth the real hidden meaning of your own words. But hey, if you think that you got it figured out, than more power to you.

But you are still talking in those terms.

All I am writing about is various experiences which are all different from person to person and nothing else and how to get to them. Than you are on your own and you should figure things out yourself with devotion and practice. But this is only true for spiritualist who wants true yoga or self-realization.

Look, I don't know why we are even posting any more if I am honest. Because if you can have OBE than you can find out answers yourself. There are many there and here to in our word. It all depends on what YOU are looking for and truly desire. So everyone should just be honest with themselves and ask the heart and follow it.

The point is love and compassion for all beings all the time. If you can manifest that in your life you are a winner in my book. Beliefs, religion, gender, race, nationality, culture all that are just our concepts and imagination - true love does not know or divide between anything, even animals or plants or any other beings, aliens and all that you can imagine!

If you can get lost in that ocean of blissful love and spread it all around you all the time, than you are done.