Why is Jesus a Conservative?

a reply to: TsukiLunar

I sincerely think Stephen Colbert is a member of ATS.

Thank you for bringing humor to my morning. You are brilliantly hilarious.

originally posted by: Antidisestablishment
a reply to: grandmakdw

I have a red text bible thank you.
I can't seem to find anything sexist or homophobic in anything Jesus actually said, so why do you propose he said these things when he did not? I find plenty of misogynism in Paul's letters tho.

I don't think most conservatives and/or Christians think Jesus was sexist or homophobic.

And I think it's important when you're reading Paul to remember that he was the guy who said "In Christ, there is no male or female" despite the fact that he was living in a culture where by and large women were treated as second class citizens. That was a radical statement of gender equality and to the best of my knowledge, the first that has survived to influence Western culture at large.

originally posted by: Antidisestablishment
a reply to: grandmakdw

I have a red text bible thank you.
I can't seem to find anything sexist or homophobic in anything Jesus actually said, so why do you propose he said these things when he did not? I find plenty of misogynism in Paul's letters tho.

You are correct Jesus never said anything sexist or homophobic, ever.
I asked people to read the red letters carefully and thoroughly to find
sexist or homophobic words or even actions. I knew that they are
not there. But by issuing the challenge I got people to read the actual
words of Jesus quite carefully.

Paul, yes, unfortunately was a product of his time period and not
the Messiah. Many people find Paul's writings as important but
not inspired.

originally posted by: Antidisestablishment
a reply to: Klassified

I was not attacking anybody, I just wanted a simple explanation as to why what the Christian Conservstives belive is different to what Jesus taught.

I'm saying that there is a great mythology built up around
today's Christians. And it is being perpetuated by the
media and many online forums and chat rooms, etc.
There are some intolerant Christians, sure.

But would one these days go around saying
85% of all Muslims are homophobic and
misogynistic? Nope, they would not because
it is considered to be politically incorrect,
even though the writings of the Koran
and the life of Mohammad clearly
teaches these things.

Yet, Jesus never taught these things
and it is quite politically correct and
even highly encouraged for people
to say the same thing about Christians
that they would not dare utter about Muslims.

There are many evangelistic atheists and
anti-theists in the media and it is cool
and popular to be an evangelistic atheist
or anti-theist and to try and convert
everyone to the "right way of thinking".
There was even a recent shooting where
the shooter asked "Are you a Christian?"
and shot people in the head who said yes,
and the leg who said no." This has been
covered up and hushed up because of the
mythology that only Christians can do
ugly evil things.

Funny thing is, that the evangelistic
atheists and anti-theists don't see themselves
as doing what they condemn in others.
They see themselves as saving the world
(hmmmm)
Yet if a Christian speaks to someone about
their beliefs it is considered bad and
something to be ridiculed.

I am a Christian Conservative, quite conservative
in fact. While Klass doesn't agree, there are
quite a few on ATS who are frustrated and angry
with me for being so conservative and speaking
my mind and sharing my point of view openly
and without shame.

So this Christian Conservative does follow the
teachings of Jesus, as do 90-95% of all
the Christians that I know well enough to
be able to tell what they believe. At my age,
having been in the military (as a family member)
for over 50 years, living all around the world,
I probably know well over 5000 Christians.

Most on ATS who are so bigoted and prejudiced
toward Christians know probably at most 100
Christians and if they happen to all be
Westboro Baptist Christians, then that skews
their world view.

Charity is a Christian value unlike it's counter part of entitlement.

One is done by FREE will, and done by oneself instead of using bold face authoritarianism, and outsource the betterment of their fellow man to the STATE.

Back to conservative bashing.

Where Jesus would just turn the other cheek.

originally posted by: Antidisestablishment
Hey you Bible Bashers!
Do you have an answer to me question.
I have been reading the New Testament, and I really can't find any evidence that the beloved Jesus you so admire would have ever voted for Bush or Donald Trump. In fact, I don't even belive he was homophobic.
In fact, I don't think he was misogynistic or a gay hater.
Can you prove me wrong by posting scriptures that support capitalism and slavery which actually came from Jesus's mouth?
I think the early disciples showed more left wing leanings tbh.

Jesus was very liberal in his views. Not the modern definition of Liberal that always seems to want to raise taxes and become a nanny state, but also not the modern conservative view that always whines and hates those that are different from it. Jesus was very, very liberal. very loving and caring and looking out for his fellow man, going out of his way to interact with prostitutes, homeless, thieves and bring them around not with rants of hell and damnation but by showing them love.

a reply to: grandmakdw

It really depends on where in the U.S. you live.

I was born and raised in Texas (my family is multi-generational Texans), where there is a church on every street corner. The two primary religions of Texas are Southern Baptist and Church of Christ. My family has been Southern Baptists and my husband's family (also multi-generational Texans) has been Church of Christ.

Those religions are considered part of the evangelical group of Christians and they tend to be very conservative, and they tend to be very much against homosexuality and gay marriage. I probably have met at least 5,000 self-professed Christians in my life, and I would say 9 out of 10 are against homosexuality and would vote against gay marriage in their state.

Here is a recent Pew Research Poll, and it corroborates what I said about evangelical Protestants' attitudes towards gay marriage.

White evangelical Protestants stand out for their deep opposition to same-sex marriage: Just 27% favor allowing gays and lesbians to marry, while 70% oppose it (43% strongly oppose)

www.people-press.org...

I'm sure there are sections of the country where self-professed Christians have absolutely no problem with homosexuality or same-sex marriage, but in Texas, not so much.

Listen all that matters is Jesus has given me permission to judge you all. As a Christian, I am well aware of this power and I will use it if I have to. Be gone , I shall say and roundhouse kick you in the face with my foot.

Anyway, be well share and enjoy.

Jesus was a badass high alto with a spectacular range....
-Christosterone

a reply to: kaylaluv

Ah, but I would argue that there is a difference between being against gays and being against gay marriage and calling homosexual sex a sin.

Gays are people and more than the sum of their bedroom activities. They sin, but so do we all.

Jesus did not teach against those things explicitly, but he did define marriage as God defined it - man and woman - and he did preach against sexual immorality which includes sex outside of marriage. Unfortunately for gays, they fall forever outside on those counts. They do not fulfill the definition of a marriage as defined by God and reiterated by Jesus, and therefore, any sexual activity a gay couple will have is in the category of sexual immorality.

That's tough. I'll be the first to say it and even admit I don't like that conclusion, but that's where my interpretation of what Jesus did say leads me. And with Him having backed God's first definition of marriage to the hilt in the midst of the Roman Empire of all places and times, then it's pretty clear that definition is the one meant to stand.

a reply to: grandmakdw

But by issuing the challenge I got people to read the actual
words of Jesus quite carefully.

Wow that's quite a toot of your own horn, there, granny!!!

What people? You do realize that most of the people in this thread know MORE about the Bible than 10s (if not 100s) of Thousands of Christians do? (Hint: It's because we "looked it up" - tried to connect the dots, and found something like this:
)



Can you link me to where people said they went and looked it up due to your magisterial mandate?

Oh, and btw, Westboro Baptist Church only has about 25 members. Didn't do the prep work for this little lesson, eh?

Still haven't had a chance to find some sources for your claims (oh - right - it's beneath you o_O ) ..... let alone the time to sit and read back through your own posts and figure out (in your vast sagacity) why people have come to see your posts as a pathetic ranting?

Didn't you say that on ATS you are an "absurdist" and not to be taken seriously because you do it as a cognitive "exercise" and don't really mean any of it, anyway? That you give members no thought at all unless you are logged on?

How many times you have accused others of being loathsome specimens of humans who have never looked in the mirror, and always "talk about you" and we are the "cause" of the actions of the lunatic who shot those students?

a reply to: ketsuko

Then you are apparently one of the evangelical religions and you disagree with Grandma on this. She thinks her view is the most prevalent Christian one (no problem with same-sex marriage). I'm assuming you think your view is the most prevalent Christian one. I tend to agree with you. I don't mean I agree with your view, I just agree that your view is the most prevalent among Christians.

originally posted by: neo96
Charity is a Christian value unlike it's counter part of entitlement.

One is done by FREE will, and done by oneself instead of using bold face authoritarianism, and outsource the betterment of their fellow man to the STATE.

Back to conservative bashing.

Where Jesus would just turn the other cheek.

Luke 12:22-34 (New International Version)

22 Then Jesus said to his disciples: “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear.

23 For life is more than food, and the body more than clothes.

24 Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds!

25 Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to your life[a]?

26 Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest?

27 “Consider how the wild flowers grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you, not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these.

28 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today, and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, how much more will he clothe you—you of little faith!

29 And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; do not worry about it.

30 For the pagan world runs after all such things, and your Father knows that you need them.

31 But seek his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well.

32 “Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom.

33 Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.

34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Sounds like he was ordering them to sell their possessions & give to the poor, not asking them to volunteer it as you said.

a reply to: ketsuko

You wrote: QUOTE "Jesus did not teach against those things explicitly, but he did define marriage as God defined it - man and woman - and he did preach against sexual immorality which includes sex outside of marriage. Unfortunately for gays, they fall forever outside on those counts. They do not fulfill the definition of a marriage as defined by God and reiterated by Jesus, and therefore, any sexual activity a gay couple will have is in the category of sexual immorality..."

The canonical council approved Gospels placed words into the Greek speaking mouth of R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean ["Jesus") who himself spoke Galilean Aramaic. We do not have any specific writings that can be directly attributed to him alone on the subject of marriage, but the Gospels have recorded some interesting statements placed into his mouth on the subject of Marriage, viz. Marriage is forever and Divorce was unthinkable...homosexual marriage was not exactly up for discussion in the early 1st century CE so we do not know anything as to his own personal take would be.
But he clearly did not approve of Divorce, which he equated with Adultery, a crime punishable by stoning. This stance is ultra right wing conservative thinking which is virtually absent in the minds of his contemporary Rebbes who listed many reasons why a man could divorce his wife legally - but "Jesus" would have none of it...

Mark 10:9
"What the Most High has woven together, let no son of man un-stitch...."

Mark 10:11/ Luke 16:18 / Matthew 5:32
"He who divorces his wife and married another commits adultery against her..."

Also he even suggested that for those who are willing to accept celibacy, that men should castrate themselves for the Kingdom ('if they are willing to accept it, let them do so..."

Matthew 19:12
"Some men are born as eunuchs, some have been made eunuchs by men, and some choose castration for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven. Let anyone accept this who is able to go through with it...."

Is this the sort of person that you feel has any true relevance on this whole subject in the 21st century west?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Blissful

Angels can't be gay.

Why? Is there some sort of angel rulebook you happen to be aware of?

WHOA I thought Angels were Hermaphrodites

you know both sexes ?

then again there's that :: The Fallen has taken Woman of earth as their Own Story ..

and besides who the # cares
if they are Gay or Bi-Sexual if your agnostic

Hate to Break it to you Christians

Homo Sapiens are Not the First humanoid Creation either .

The First Apparently, are those Angels and The Fallen ( Demons )

let alone Hominids aka Early Man ..

Was Jesus Gay ? did he make out with Mary Magdalene ?

7 sins of a Sinner ... Jesus Broke them All!

was he conservative NAH



for me being Agnostic and partial Native American

I do have a Problem with the Cannibalism Ritual

Communion thing .. you know Flesh ( wafer ) Blood ( wine )



It reminds me when we Kill Our first Hunt ( Deer )

As in Tradition

We drink the Blood and Eat its heart after its just been cut out
to make us a Better hunter. and the Supposed sensing ability's
of the Deer

but the Mohawks are claim to be cannibals by Europeans
at one time , eating our dead enemy's LOL..

Eating Bodies & Drinking Spirits
genealogyreligion.net...

originally posted by: Wolfenz
WHOA I thought Angels were Hermaphrodites

Yeah? I thought they were figments of people's imaginations.

a reply to: kaylaluv

I am more libertarian in that I think government will do what it will do. I think it's a mistake for Christian religion to change to suit society on this one.

If gays want legal protections, fine, but leave me out of it. If they wish to call it marriage, fine, but don't force me to call it such or do more than extend tolerance to it.

I am well aware there are Christian sects that have decided to ignore the basic definition of marriage, and that's their decision to make. I don't have to belong to those churches.

To me when Jesus said this:

“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Matthew 19: 4-6

It's pretty clear what a marriage is in God's eyes. Living as He did during the times of licentious and sexually libertine Roman Empire, there was every opportunity to change that and liberalize it, but it didn't happen.

To reply to the original question:

Jesus wasn't a conservative. Jesus wasn't a liberal. Jesus was a savior. He was (and is) above politics.

Jesus wasn't a conservative, neither was he liberal, he was a moderate. If you go by the bible, his teachings will piss off both liberals and conservatives, and yet he was balanced.

a reply to: ketsuko

Your biblical quote is referring to divorce, not who is allowed to marry whom. Marriage was a different concept back then anyway. It was more about property and heirs than it was about love and companionship. Many times the fathers arranged marriage between two people who didn't even know each other, much less love each other. Two gay people wouldn't have gotten married then because there wouldn't be a need to, with no heirs. Now, people look at marriage differently and some people have no intention of ever having heirs - they get married for love and companionship. In the western world at least, people make their own decision to marry whom they want, and they can decide if they want to have children or not, which was NOT the case in biblical times.

Would Jesus have a problem with the way we decide to get married now? Would He have a problem if two people got married and decided not to have children, or if those two people decided to have only one or two children instead of popping out as many as possible (as was common in biblical times)? Would He have a problem with two consenting adults marrying for love and companionship, no matter their sexual orientation? I can't think of any reason why He would.