America needs more guns to prevent shootings. Lets learn from Switzerland.

a reply to: neo96

Couldn't agree more.

If it were simply a matter of laws it would only make sense that one could end all violence, all manner of "bad things" with but a stroke of the pen.

This is very obviously not the case.

a reply to: TinkerHaus

Nearly all of the mass shootings in the US take place in "gun free" zones. If they don't fear death why aren't they committing these acts where there is a chance of an armed civilian returning fire?

I really cannot believe you wrote that.

Once the police arrive on the scene firing from the hip, those so called " gun free zones " become anything but.

Tell me of a recent incident when one of these mass shooters has actually escaped and is still at large. In fact how many of them are still alive ?

I am still stirring from what you stated.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: TinkerHaus

It's not the death they fear. It isn't even as basic as the fear of death.

It is the amount of damage created that makes these choices clear.

They don't want to be taken out until they can maximize the level of damage they can do.

You'll notice they don't run from the cops. Nor do they wait for arrest.

They kill until they are killed, or until they are prevented from killing any further.

I don't disagree with your assessment whatsoever. The argument still stands, however. If they want to kill as many as possible before being stopped, a gun free zone is the perfect place to do so. They want fish in a barrel. Abolishing gun free zones would make this situation much less likely.

In this case at Umpqua we have Chris Mintz, being hailed as a hero for charging the shooter despite being hit seven times. Imagine if Mr Mintz had been armed with a firearm rather than just his bag of books.

a reply to: neo96

Can we please stop comparing other countries to the US ?

No two countries have the same political systems,the same socioeconomics, or the same legislative, and judicial practices.

Further more there is so much ethnic diversity in this country. It just can't be compared anywhere else.

It just doesn't work.

Countries can learn from each other. Like the OP suggests.

Countries political systems, socioeconomics, legislative, and judicial practices are learned from other countries.

Yes, the graphs do imply a compare and contrast.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: TinkerHaus

Nearly all of the mass shootings in the US take place in "gun free" zones. If they don't fear death why aren't they committing these acts where there is a chance of an armed civilian returning fire?

I really cannot believe you wrote that.

Once the police arrive on the scene firing from the hip, those so called " gun free zones " become anything but.

Tell me of a recent incident when one of these mass shooters has actually escaped and is still at large. In fact how many of them are still alive ?

I am still stirring from what you stated.

Your request has no relevance to the topic at hand. Did I say they were escaping and are still at large? No - I said they don't want to take the chance of an armed civilian returning fire.

You seem to use a lot of ASSumption in your arguments..

You seriously compared the crime rates in Switzerland to the crime rates in Honduras and proceed to claim it has to do with gun control.

Honduras is the second poorest county in central American with a poverty rate hovering at about 65% of it s population.

BBC

Honduran society is rife with economic inequality. Malnutrition, poor housing and infant diseases are widespread.
The country has a youthful population; 50% of Hondurans are under the age of 19. But endemic poverty, chronic unemployment and the prospects offered by drug trafficking have contributed to a virulent crime wave conducted mainly by youth gangs known as "maras".
The maras are said to have tens of thousands of members and use threats and violence to control poorer districts in towns and cities.
Meanwhile, police officers have been implicated in high-profile crimes, and the police are thought to have been involved in the murders by death squads of youths and street children.

Switzerland has low unemployment and a per capita GDP among the highest in the world. They have a stable democratic government that is highly praised around the world.

I think "gun control" is pretty low on the list of things that are responsible for the difference in murder rates between the two countries.

a reply to: TinkerHaus

said they don't want to take the chance of an armed civilian returning fire

However they are ok with armed police returning fire.

LOL

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: TinkerHaus

said they don't want to take the chance of an armed civilian returning fire

However they are ok with armed police returning fire.

LOL

After they've had their 15-20 minutes of massacre - yes they are.

You don't find it interesting these guys pick gun free zones the vast majority of the time? You want to reframe this fact somehow because it doesn't fit your narrative?

a reply to: Dreamwatcher

Just thought it was a cool image without doing much research.

Here is an image to support your claims.

a reply to: Dreamwatcher

I found this comparison rather useless myself.

The largest issues facing any nation, and the largest determinant of crime, is usually socioeconomic, educational, and to different degrees, policy based.

a reply to: frostie

The only thing people need to learn to do is read the US constitution.

It's not hard.

a reply to: frostie

Why don't you post their laws on concealed carry and the difference in their culture?

The government and pro-gun groups argued, however, that the country’s existing laws regulating the sale, ownership and licensing of private guns, which includes a ban on carrying concealed weapons, are stringent enough.

world.time.com...

They have plenty of gun control laws in swiss, it is not just a free for all everyone has a gun.

Also obligatory " Well that isn't the united states so we can't compare them" like we always hear the UK or Australia are brought up.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Dreamwatcher

I found this comparison rather useless myself.

The largest issues facing any nation, and the largest determinant of crime, is usually socioeconomic, educational, and to different degrees, policy based.

The comparison may not be directly relevant - again I agree with you. It is worth noting, however, that more guns don't immediately and necessarily mean more crime, and that less guns don't immediately or necessarily mean less crime.

I'm all for it. This is a black and white issue which is rare for me. Either we all get guns or nobody gets guns (which isn't feasible). Require everyone to learn how to handle a firearm, and provide the necessary training in senior year of high school.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: frostie

The only thing people need to learn to do is read the US constitution.

It's not hard.

Preaching to the choir there. No need for partisanship if people would just read that document......

a reply to: frostie

If we continue to frame the issue of violence in society around guns, to the exclusion of ALL OTHER CONTRIBUTING FACTORS, we are going to loose grip of the situation very fast.

My gun rights are precious to me.

It seems to be that whether we ban guns or expand their use more widely that our issues with violence will not suddenly auto-correct without addressing the far larger contributors.

Economics and economic liberty, education, health and health care, policies like the war on drugs. These are the issues MOST contributing to violence in our society as well as common factors in higher crime societies like Honduras.

Creating a talisman of the gun, or demonizing it as a central evil, when it is simply a tool, is just a good way for both sides to bury their heads in the sand and avoid discussing the bigger issues.

a reply to: frostie

Hell of a lot less poverty and crime in Switzerland than Honduras. Possible that has something to do with the statistic.

a reply to: neo96

The Constitution was based off a foreign government.

WOW!? The first time the US got an idea from another country!

Like said we learn from each other.

edsitement.neh.gov...

a reply to: frostie

Yeah and ?

Our rights come from the creator.

Not the state, and they are not subject to the mobs fear, and paranoia.

Maybe other people need to learn that.

Switzerland Gun Laws

I guess ammunition can be kept at the residence but purchasing of ammunition (and guns) is restricted and requires quite a bit of validation. They regulate it very thoroughly.

This is a tough topic. I believe in the 2nd Amendment that citizens should be able to arm themselves for protection and for militia purposes against tyrannical forces (outside of the US Military). However the amount of mass shootings needs to be addressed.

I don't think you can only attribute mental illness, or access to guns to the cause of these shootings. I think it has a lot to do with society. America is highly individualistic and certain states are more so than others. These shooters suffer from societal isolation. They feel as if they don't fit in and that no one cares, thus their self worth is low. The current state in which I live is very individualistic (vs. say the Midwest) and has seen two of the largest shootings in America.