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Germany in a state of SIEGE
page: 23share:
originally posted by: Siddharta
a reply to: 8675309jenny
*
Just asking: What problem do you have with Marx?
Did you ever hear about the German guy with the funny mustache, who was responsible for unimaginable suffering and the murder of MILLIONS during the 20th century?
His name was KARL MARX.
In fact, I have less of a problem with Marx himself than the lunatic followers of his, and ideas such as those spread by the Frankfurt School.
But to deal directly with Marx. "FROM EACH ACCORDING TO HIS ABILITY, AND TO EACH ACCORDING TO HIS NEED" is probably one of the most wolf-in-sheeps-clothing doctrines ever preached. It's more dangerous than any army the world has ever seen because it charms and infects people with an idealogy that rots their civilizaton from within.
The creative, industrious, innovating types are latched onto and milked like a dairy cow for the 'greater good', not permitted to elevate themselves, whilst the lazy become entitled and define 'NEED' as whatever they fancy, regardless if they can afford the actual cost, since the wealth is distributed "according to his need".
Well what if I decide I NEED 8 children ??
There is really no need to explain the failures of Marx's idealogy, because you can look at the disastrous effects on the places that tried it. But don't atke my word for it. My Ukrainian neighbors would LOVE to tell you all about the utopian joy that is Marxism. Especially the holodomor of 1932-33.
Marxism goes directly against human nature and therefore will always end in a collapse, but it's been demonstrated that it usually only collapses after millions have suffered, been murdered and millions more disillusioned and broken of spirit and mind.
a reply to: 8675309jenny
Problem with your Ukrainian neighbours is, that monsters like Bandera get worshipped as saviors as well. Which is just the other idiotic ideology of another funny mustache who killed millions as well. But Marxism is not Stalinism, I think you're out on a limb here.
Problem with your Ukrainian neighbours is, that monsters like Bandera get worshipped as saviors as well. Which is just the other idiotic ideology of another funny mustache who killed millions as well. But Marxism is not Stalinism, I think you're out on a limb here.
edit on 1-10-2015 by
PublicOpinion because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Vroomfondel
Of course I have a point. I AM German and I AM living here every day. And I only can say: Shut up and let us deal with the problems. It is difficult enough.
Honestly I think people ike you simply need an excuse why they don't help anybody and don't move away from their PC.
Of course I have a point. I AM German and I AM living here every day. And I only can say: Shut up and let us deal with the problems. It is difficult enough.
Honestly I think people ike you simply need an excuse why they don't help anybody and don't move away from their PC.
a reply to: 8675309jenny
I think you mix up some things here. Marx lived a little time before and our guy with the mustache used to send Marx' followers to not so funny camps. But why bother about details? Who cares about reality when we are above top secret, right?
I think you mix up some things here. Marx lived a little time before and our guy with the mustache used to send Marx' followers to not so funny camps. But why bother about details? Who cares about reality when we are above top secret, right?
edit on 2-10-2015 by Siddharta because: that damned o
originally posted by: 8675309jenny
WOW, good job at being an apologist for people who come to your country and ASSAULT your native citizens.
That's called "being reasonable" and if that's a crime I plead guilty.
Oh and news flash, very often sexual assault has been reported as simply "assault" in your ridiculously liberal PC media outlets in Europe. Ya know, can't let the actual local population know what's really happening or else they might grow a pair and stand up to this massive illegal immigration wave.
Hah - it was just the other way around
In this case, the "ridiculously liberal PC media outlet" reported that it was sexual assault (rape, actually) - but failed to prove it nor could the police confirm it.
originally posted by: Siddharta
a reply to: VroomfondelOf course I have a point. I AM German and I AM living here every day. And I only can say: Shut up and let us deal with the problems. It is difficult enough. Honestly I think people ike you simply need an excuse why they don't help anybody and don't move away from their PC.
I'm afraid it's worse.
Many posters in here have no clue what really happens - but have their opinions ready. These opinions - at best - simply reflect uncertainty, which translates into doubt and fear. At worst we see extremism: the same illness that their supposed "enemies" suffer from. Instead of judging each situation carefully and then come to a conclusion, they have a conclusion - "foreigners stink" - and then fill in the gaps to their liking.
My dear ATS extremists: if you are really strong, you can afford to be gentle and kind, even if your kindness is not always rewarded. Such is the situation in Germany and The Netherlands: we aren't ALWAYS rewarded for it, but we know that kindness and gentleness is the only way out of all this. There will be people that try to misuse our kindness - some will even be able to get away with it. But in general, we will survive, and we will have shown a large group of people what we stand for.
And they WILL remember.
originally posted by: Siddharta
a reply to: Vroomfondel
Of course I have a point. I AM German and I AM living here every day. And I only can say: Shut up and let us deal with the problems. It is difficult enough.
Honestly I think people ike you simply need an excuse why they don't help anybody and don't move away from their PC.
You know absolutely nothing about me so don't act like you do.
You live in Germany. Uh huh, I am taking the same approach to that anecdotal statement as people take to me. How do I know you are telling the truth? No proof whatsoever, and I am just supposed to take your word for it when I am quoting real news agencies, not just the DM who, by the way, nailed it this time.
You can say anything, that doesn't make it true. Until people stop attacking me and demanding that I cite references and link every single thing I say when they are perfectly capable of finding out on their own I will treat every opposing statement exactly the same way. Show me proof or stop lying and trying to cause problems.
Its not fun is it...well get used to it - I had to.
originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: Vroomfondel
In the article they are saying they know the refugees need to be sorted by their beliefs. In saying that, they are in fact confirming that the threat of violence is real and that they are aware of it. Yet they continue to bring in more and more. That is disturbing to say the least.
You are aware of religious tensions due to shisms like catholicism and protestantism for example? Of course they need to be put together to reduce conflicts. Nobody confirmed anything with that.
And they don't continue to bring more in, people continue to flee in growing numbers. We see this mess for years now.
The violence is the core of all of this. Yes, by admitting they have to segregate the refugees to reduce violence they are confirming that the refugees are indeed violent. And if they must be segregated from Christian refugees to curb violence, it follows to reason that they should be segregated from local Christians as well.
Why do you insist on putting people in harms way?
originally posted by: Vroomfondel
originally posted by: Siddharta
a reply to: Vroomfondel
Of course I have a point. I AM German and I AM living here every day. And I only can say: Shut up and let us deal with the problems. It is difficult enough.
Honestly I think people ike you simply need an excuse why they don't help anybody and don't move away from their PC.
You know absolutely nothing about me so don't act like you do.
You live in Germany. Uh huh, I am taking the same approach to that anecdotal statement as people take to me. How do I know you are telling the truth? No proof whatsoever, and I am just supposed to take your word for it when I am quoting real news agencies, not just the DM who, by the way, nailed it this time.
You can say anything, that doesn't make it true. Until people stop attacking me and demanding that I cite references and link every single thing I say when they are perfectly capable of finding out on their own I will treat every opposing statement exactly the same way. Show me proof or stop lying and trying to cause problems.
Its not fun is it...well get used to it - I had to.
So here you have two german members again who are debunking your OP...yet you still stick with your Daily Fail . Use google translate(if you dont understand german language) and find a single article from a german newspaper (lleft or right)who claims that Germany is under siege. Dont bother because you wont find any. Sure,youll find articles claiming that there is loads of problems by letting houndreds of thousands of people enter your country. But hey,there would be crapload of problems if 500,000 americans suddenly decided to seek asylum in Germany. Germany is not USA and germans are not americans. Large part of you american ATS members think that a barbed wire around your borders and more guns to the citizens will solve every problem. Germans are nowhere near like that. If you are a hard working person in Germany you will be accepted. The germans will ship your ass back to whatever country you came from if you are a freeloader,extremist etc.,you can count on that. Just because your own country has trouble with immigration doesent mean that germans will make the same mistakes. Who gives you the right to tell people that all those refugees are freeloading extremists? How do you know that,among them,there isnt loads of hardworking families or that the next CEO. of BMW,VW,Merceded will be a refugee who came to Germany with nothing ? Your own country was built by immigrants. I bet that there were som dubios people among all those who came and made the US what it is today. Who and what gives you the right to judge evey single refugee entering Germany ?
edit on 2-10-2015 by ErrorErrorError
because: (no reason given)
originally posted by: ErrorErrorError
originally posted by: Vroomfondel
originally posted by: Siddharta
a reply to: Vroomfondel
Of course I have a point. I AM German and I AM living here every day. And I only can say: Shut up and let us deal with the problems. It is difficult enough.
Honestly I think people ike you simply need an excuse why they don't help anybody and don't move away from their PC.
You know absolutely nothing about me so don't act like you do.
You live in Germany. Uh huh, I am taking the same approach to that anecdotal statement as people take to me. How do I know you are telling the truth? No proof whatsoever, and I am just supposed to take your word for it when I am quoting real news agencies, not just the DM who, by the way, nailed it this time.
You can say anything, that doesn't make it true. Until people stop attacking me and demanding that I cite references and link every single thing I say when they are perfectly capable of finding out on their own I will treat every opposing statement exactly the same way. Show me proof or stop lying and trying to cause problems.
Its not fun is it...well get used to it - I had to.
So here you have two german members again who are debunking your OP...yet you still stick with your Daily Fail . Use google translate(if you dont understand german language) and find a single article from a german newspaper (lleft or right)who claims that Germany is under siege. Dont bother because you wont find any. Sure,youll find articles claiming that there is loads of problems by letting houndreds of thousands of people enter your country. But hey,there would be crapload of problems if 500,000 americans suddenly decided to seek asylum in Germany. Germany is not USA and germans are not americans. Large part of you american ATS members think that a barbed wire around your borders and more guns to the citizens will solve every problem. Germans are nowhere near like that. If you are a hard working person in Germany you will be accepted. The germans will ship your ass back to whatever country you came from if you are a freeloader,extremist etc.,you can count on that. Just because your own country has trouble with immigration doesent mean that germans will make the same mistakes. Who gives you the right to tell people that all those refugees are freeloading extremists? How do you know that,among them,there isnt loads of hardworking families or that the next CEO. of BMW,VW,Merceded will be a refugee who came to Germany with nothing ? Your own country was built by immigrants. I bet that there were som dubios people among all those who came and made the US that it is today. Who and what gives you the right to judge evey single refugee entering Germany ?
I have two people claiming to be Germans...who could be lying. And I have much more than the DM as evidence.
"Find a single article from a German newspaper that says Germany is under siege." I already did and cited it numerous times.
"What gives you the right to tell people that all those refugees are freeloading extremists?" Nothing. That is why I never said that. I have pointed out that numerous news agencies have already reported that extremists pretending to be refugees have been caught in the process. I have stated very clearly that some of these people are Syrian refugees fleeing war. And some are not from Syria at all and are not fleeing anything. They are economic opportunists or radical extremists, or both. Not all, some.
Can you deny that statement? Show me cited references and credible links if you can.
When people start using terms like ALL, ALWAYS, NEVER, it is usually the last gasp of a failed argument.
a reply to: Vroomfondel
Now, let's see: you never claimed to be a German, did you? So, regardless if our German posters are real Germans or not, fact is that YOU have never seen the 'siege' yourself.
So, frankly: your are simply taking a few possibly misinformed or perhaps even sensationalist sources, extrapolate them against your personal angst and come up with a siege. And if real Germans say it's nonsense, you start twisting and turning and instead of admitting that you could have been wrong you maintain your hogwash story and even have the nerve to accuse other ATS members of being liars. I think we are done here.
You live in Germany. Uh huh, I am taking the same approach to that anecdotal statement as people take to me.
Now, let's see: you never claimed to be a German, did you? So, regardless if our German posters are real Germans or not, fact is that YOU have never seen the 'siege' yourself.
So, frankly: your are simply taking a few possibly misinformed or perhaps even sensationalist sources, extrapolate them against your personal angst and come up with a siege. And if real Germans say it's nonsense, you start twisting and turning and instead of admitting that you could have been wrong you maintain your hogwash story and even have the nerve to accuse other ATS members of being liars. I think we are done here.
edit on
2-10-2015 by ForteanOrg because: he did not quote the quote correctly - again..
Germany is a big place and as such it can happen that something occurring in one city isn't heard of or doesn't occur in another. The same happens
here in the UK. If I speak to people on this emotive subject and speak of the problems in Bradford for example, I'm called a liar and "never seen it
here" or "doesn't happen here". That doesn't mean its not happening
originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
Germany is a big place and as such it can happen that something occurring in one city isn't heard of or doesn't occur in another. The same happens here in the UK. If I speak to people on this emotive subject and speak of the problems in Bradford for example, I'm called a liar and "never seen it here" or "doesn't happen here". That doesn't mean its not happening
You found someone who spoke English................ In Bradford?
originally posted by: ForteanOrg
a reply to: Vroomfondel
You live in Germany. Uh huh, I am taking the same approach to that anecdotal statement as people take to me.
Now, let's see: you never claimed to be a German, did you? So, regardless if our German posters are real Germans or not, fact is that YOU have never seen the 'siege' yourself.
So, frankly: your are simply taking a few possibly misinformed or perhaps even sensationalist sources, extrapolate them against your personal angst and come up with a siege. And if real Germans say it's nonsense, you start twisting and turning and instead of admitting that you could have been wrong you maintain your hogwash story and even have the nerve to accuse other ATS members of being liars. I think we are done here.
My God, for the hundredth time - I did not select the term siege. It was the term used, by the DM, the Hungarian news stations, and local German officials describing first hand what they were witnessing.
It sounds as though you haven't seen it first hand either. So what makes you qualified to talk about it? I live 15 minutes away from a place where drive by shootings happen all the time. Just because I don't witness them first hand does not mean the news is lying when they report it. That is a weak tactic at best. You really need to come up with something better than that.
As for me denying who is German and who isn't, I am simply treating other peoples posts here the same way I am treated. I make a statement, whether it is from personal experience, or from a news agency, or other people here claiming to be German. Yes, other people here claiming to be German have confirmed the subject of this thread and indicated they too are seeing signs of violence and fear in their own people. And when I repeated what those German people said, the deniers here said, "How do you know they are German?" So, I say the same thing to you. How do I know you are German? You haven't shown me anything to support that claim. That sword cuts both ways. If you don't like being treated that way, don't treat other people that way.
edit on 2-10-2015 by Vroomfondel because: (no reason given)
edit on 2-10-2015 by Vroomfondel because: (no reason
given)
a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport
Skunk-works then, it's just a theory without a single shred of proof at all. We could equally discuss how and why the Toldya cuts through the Nist-report like a knife through butter. Little insider...
You should be able to find something on one of the various media-outlets if the story holds some water. I can imagine said rape really happened, but a rape is still a rape and a siege is a siege. Let's not confuse things to proliferate propaganda and fearmongery.
Fortean is spot on again, we're done here as long as the OP remains unable to prove his point.
Skunk-works then, it's just a theory without a single shred of proof at all. We could equally discuss how and why the Toldya cuts through the Nist-report like a knife through butter. Little insider...
You should be able to find something on one of the various media-outlets if the story holds some water. I can imagine said rape really happened, but a rape is still a rape and a siege is a siege. Let's not confuse things to proliferate propaganda and fearmongery.
Fortean is spot on again, we're done here as long as the OP remains unable to prove his point.
originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
Germany is a big place and as such it can happen that something occurring in one city isn't heard of or doesn't occur in another. The same happens here in the UK. If I speak to people on this emotive subject and speak of the problems in Bradford for example, I'm called a liar and "never seen it here" or "doesn't happen here". That doesn't mean its not happening
Highly unlikely, that a siege would fly without anyone taking notice. That's what I was referring to.
a reply to: PublicOpinion
Oh right with you now, well I'm not aware of things that happen in say Liverpool on a daily basis so its not really a theory is it? We can't be aware of the daily goings on all over the country in different towns. Some of these incidents in Germany are discussed at local level too, some get into fringe press some only local press. Word of mouth is also a hinderance or a good thing depending on your point of view. If I got the Liverpool Echo I'm sure I'd be up to date with what's happening there but not through watching or reading mainstream media. There is another little problem at the moment too in that some Police Forces and Aid Agencies are NOT reporting these things to the media for obvious reasons at the moment, but they still get out of course due to social media
Oh right with you now, well I'm not aware of things that happen in say Liverpool on a daily basis so its not really a theory is it? We can't be aware of the daily goings on all over the country in different towns. Some of these incidents in Germany are discussed at local level too, some get into fringe press some only local press. Word of mouth is also a hinderance or a good thing depending on your point of view. If I got the Liverpool Echo I'm sure I'd be up to date with what's happening there but not through watching or reading mainstream media. There is another little problem at the moment too in that some Police Forces and Aid Agencies are NOT reporting these things to the media for obvious reasons at the moment, but they still get out of course due to social media