Is it just me or..?

Hello everyone, this thread idea popped into my mind after a reply to another thread, though I have thought of it before. Personally I don't feel I have freedom. I don't feel I have much control over my life. I feel like so much of my life is under the control of others, those that love me and society. Those that love me, well of course I don't want to disappoint them and so I do what I can to try to make my way into the future and not be some scumbag, and then society pushes me the same way. Now, this doesn't mean that I am not my own individual. I like to think I am very different than most of the people I tend to see around. And yet I feel a lack of control, and because of that, a lack of direction. What says you ATS? Many of you have more experience than me and so I figured you would know how to find that sense in life, the direction of your own lives, and control over it.

a reply to: Tiamat384

"They can't tell you who you are." --Trinity, from The Matrix.

a reply to: intrptr
That's very true, but I'm not sure. I feel there's so little control because of say family. And of course society sets so many boundaries..though it's primarily the family boundaries. How has everyone here managed to do it?

you have ceded control over your life.

if you want control, the only real limits are legal. Even then, if you don't get caught its not illegal.


I agree in general. We are only as free as that brow beating beast Society will allow us to be.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan
I agree with the "if you don't get caught it's not illegal". This is very true, though of course I would commit no crime that takes away from another person, that's very important to understand. I wouldn't say I have ceded, more like I've never felt control. Society is major, but again I believe family and other close ones are larger restrictors.

a reply to: Tiamat384

Im in my 40's now, but i remember vividly how difficult it was in my early 20's trying to figure out the world, my place in the world, and the interactive dynamics of each. I never really felt control until my 30's.

Part of it is worldly experience. Part of it is self security. And part of it is developing a clear understanding of what right and wrong truly are. Not from the perspective of a school kid (who would tell you uttering certain words at any time is wrong, incorrectly), but from an adults perspective (who understands cursing is sometimes necessary and appropriate). With that clear understanding you get a better idea of when to fight, and when to shut up and just play your hand.

In the end, humans are born into slavery anyway. You cannot 'live free", as a feral human. Society will drag you back in kicking and screaming, either via a doctor, or via the tax man. You will always be beholden to someone....and so will your children. Figuring out how to make the best of it is all you really got.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

you can live free as a human but still require some attachment to society. Freedom is where ever nearly inacessable locations are or deep in the bush where the law of the land is a 22. caliber rifle and a sign that says keep out.

Depends on your meaning of "free." But everything is relative and economics rule us physical beings.

No living, physical entity is totally "free" to follow their will due to dependence upon their environment to keep existing... food, water... and then we have built a complex society were we are totally dependent on others who we largely never even meet to grow and transport our food, keep the water and electricity flowing, etc., and just being empathetic to others can make one "less free" to act on selfish impulses, as in working the soft slavery of a 9-5 to support one's family...

so we are hooked into the 'system' and are arguably less free, but perhaps more comfy and secure ... though too busy to think about it too hard...

and not as comfy, free and secure as those few leeching sociopaths who create nothing but profitable choke-points in the flow of capital to amass great wealth, causing death and misery for many others.

Funny how freedom can be argued to equate to sharing fairly and acting in a group.

At least we seem partially free when dreaming.... or dead.

originally posted by: Rikku

We are only as free as that brow beating beast Society will allow us to be.

which is extremely free... next to some nations and alot of history.
what could you want to do that society wont let you?
laws are there for a reason.

Laws based on morality need to go. Morality has no lawful basis, and represents an intrusion of religion into state.

A legal system should have a singular goal: mitigating vigilantism by giving an environment whereby individuals can seek justice and recompense. A man picking up a prostitute...there is no victim to seek recompense. Its a moral crime (for an example).

Not that im looking to go cruise the strip...its just an example.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Rikku

We are only as free as that brow beating beast Society will allow us to be.

which is extremely free... next to some nations and alot of history.
what could you want to do that society wont let you?
laws are there for a reason.

Laws based on morality need to go. Morality has no lawful basis, and represents an intrusion of religion into state.

A legal system should have a singular goal: mitigating vigilantism by giving an environment whereby individuals can seek justice and recompense. A man picking up a prostitute...there is no victim to seek recompense. Its a moral crime (for an example).

Not that im looking to go cruise the strip...its just an example.

But a very good example, if there is no victim how can there be a crime?

In today's world the "law" was the victim...... Just retarded honestly.

Especially since me getting #housed and being a douche should be a much worse offense than paying for sex with another concenting adult.

Guys do it all the time when they take a girl out, or buy her some drinks etc...

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan
I'm not even in my 20s. I'm 18. Though I like to think I'm more mature than that. Very true, I suppose I will have to find freedom in the bounds and bonds of society. To me that means a wife, kids and a house and yard for my kids, two Doberman and 2 rats.

a reply to: Baddogma
Exactly! You know who to some extent serves as an inspiration of freedom? Some call him an idiot, misguided. But Christopher McCandles left society, literally, and went out having experienced freedom the way most of us have not. That seems like the dream life outside of society.

a reply to: Rikku
Um... if you read what I wrote, at least the replies I made, you'd see that family is my biggest restraint. As to society it's not the laws, but the expectations.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan
Ha you make a very good point. It's simply society taking hold of you. Maybe the laws consider the government the victim because they don't get to tax drugs for example.

Sorry for the late replies everybody. I was unable to respond.

a reply to: Tiamat384

I suppose it is fair to say that no one who lives under a system of governance is truly free.

For example, if I were a truly free man, then no one could stop me finding a place in the woods, building an eco-passive dwelling there, and living in it. No one could stop me hunting down my own food, or from installing solar power production facilities in my home, so that I never have to pay for power again. Freedom is relative.

Compared to a man living in a totalitarian dictatorship like North Korea, I am as a bird on the wing. But in truth, I am not free. No one is. No one on this Earth, no matter where they live, because all land is governed, one way or another. No system of governance allows for true freedom, but there again, true freedom has consequences which are not of the romantic and laudable sort. True freedom is anarchy.

Anything you want, any time you want it, and no rules what so ever. And even in such a freeing ideal, it would not be long before freedom became tyranny, because as the most underrated Jedi in the worst Star Wars movie ever made once said "there's always a bigger fish".

In short, there is no freedom on this planet, never was, and never will be. All that remains to us, is to chose which nations system we feel replicates a facsimile of it best, and live in it. For some, like me, bonded to their ancestors too strongly to ever pack up and leave their nation of birth for pastures new, the shackles about our wrists and ankles do not weigh as heavy as they might without that connection. The best we can do for ourselves, is to ensure that those who come after us feel their weight even less down the ages.

a reply to: TrueBrit
I mean...theoretically, or hypothetically, which ever you prefer, you could go into the woods, relatively deep, or into the mountains, wooded mountains being the best, and chop down a couple trees and create a small hut. Nothing grand, simply a place to also build a bed in. Bow and arrow for hunting since it's silent, and arrows are craftable. A gun could also work if you're deep enough into the wild and far away enough from civilization. Even if you're not too far from a town or barn they'll assume you're a hunter that comes around time to time. Then there are the fruit the forest bears. In theory you could go out into the woods, so long you have the knowledge. Anarchy isn't a bad concept. I mean, if you read some papers on it, it truly isn't bad and in fact I've written a couple pages on it and how such a society would function. I have a great interest in it. In my own idea of anarchy though, it is impossible today because my idea would require communities of 1000 maximum and less would be much better. A few hundred per community would be ideal I believe. And then these communities would have to be relatively spread, I'd say about 3 to 10 miles in between communities. If you want I can try to find that anarchy paper I wrote. Might take me a couple weeks to find it. By October 10 I could have it. I also disagree that there was never freedom. When we lived in caves I believe there might, MIGHT, have been freedom. I'm not certain. But yes the day government was invented any total freedom was destroyed.

a reply to: Tiamat384

your freedom is simply that which you wish to claim, and can protect.

In a hunter gatherer society, your freedom is contingent on your ability to retain the freedom in the face of others who may wish to harm it.

a reply to: Tiamat384

Tiamat384,

Getting deep into the woods might work where you are, but here that just means you are tens of miles away from the nearest road, not ever hundreds. Small island nation, remember!

People do not, are not allowed to live that sort of life here. There are no "local hunters" or subsistence hunters in this country, or rather, if they are, they are not permitted to live that way and would probably be poachers, and that would be illegal and comes with hefty consequences.

I would argue also, that even when we lived in caves we were not free, because back then it was diseases and predators and clan hierarchy which dictated how free you really would be. Even when we were apes we had hierarchy, just as the apes of today do. There is no autonomous collective in ape troops. There are always pecking orders, but true freedom requires there to be no order of any kind, at any time, for any reason. No rules, no law, no power collected in any individual or group thereof, save the power to determine for oneself how ones destiny is arrived at.

None living today are familiar with freedom, and I suspect that the idea, while adhering to many of the principles the concept gave rise to, like equality under the law, is a product of Utopianism, rather than a issuance of any real experience had by a human being.