New Mexico Court Forced a Mother To Take Religious Classes Or Face Losing Her Kids

originally posted by: TheBulk
a reply to: C21H30O2I

All I know is that if the counselor had been a Muslim, Benevolent Heretic and her ilk would be in here calling the mother a bigot or Islamaphobe.

Says the guy who has been here less than 3 months, and already knows how "Benevolent Heretic and her ilk" think. If you were paying attention at all to her posts, you wouldn't have made that statement. Since it is clearly false.

If this womans claims are true, she should be calling FFRF, ACLU, or her attorney to get a lawsuit started. This really irks me.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
If this judge continues to order people to take religious counseling, it will catch up with him.

Why must some religious people push their religion on everyone???

Wouldn't be the first judge who tried to use religion.

As far as I know, those who did and were sued lost.

originally posted by: Tindalos2013
a reply to: C21H30O2I

Salzman was punished for defaulting on the court order. It has nothing to do with religious beliefs.

What was the default?

originally posted by: Metallicus
I had a doctor who prayed before she would work with each patient. All she did was 'pray' that she would do her best for each patient and that she would find the wisdom to help them. I don't find that offensive.

She was praying for herself.

Since it has nothing to do with me, I don't see a problem.

originally posted by: C21H30O2I
a reply to: Bone75

Regrettably,I agree with your statement. She should, and I guess did, do what she had to. It sucks she, or anyone, would be put in that position, the position to do what you must, or else. .

thanks!

I have no idea why she was ordered to attend counseling, but the article indicates that she initiated the proceedings which means she was trying to put the father in one of those positions and it backfired on her.

This is what I hate about liberal publications. They leave out all the important contextual information and force us to speculate.

a essay on what god means to me??

I think my essay would consist of one lone sentence...

It's none of your business!!

then there's the matter of slipping her payments under the library's table so no one can see.
I'm sorry but this should be investigated because it seems improper on more than one level.

and like I said, it's no one's business what god means to me, and it's none of my business what god means to you!
the world would be such a more peaceful place if we all abided by that philosophy.... or at least accept that your beliefs aren't the one and only truth in the matter.

Let me guess this is just another liberal lie to further the PC agenda?

a reply to: alienmma

don't know, but well the story is coming from a local news source:

krqe.com...

which, I tend to give more credibility to than I would cnn or fox news.
and way more credibility than I would CMP so, what can I say...
believe what you wish, you have that freedom, but so don't the rest of us.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: Tindalos2013
a reply to: C21H30O2I

Salzman was punished for defaulting on the court order. It has nothing to do with religious beliefs.

Kind of how I saw it. Not she refused religion but just stopped going. If your a vegan assigned to pick up trash and stop going because the thought of McDonald's bags with nasty meat in it makes you sick. There will be problems. Not saying she had to buy into the counselors religion, Heck do what I had to do in a few classes in college. Write up some of the most nonsense pc based crap imaginable, put no effort, turn it in and ace it. Ignore it but do what is required especially by the courts. We can push the religious aspect but the real issue is she just quit going. Imagine if everyone just didn't follow the court orders. She stood her ground, I applaud that. If you are willing to accept consequences do it.

I'm noticing a pattern from all of the pro religious posters. They all seem to think everyone should just suck it up and pretend to be religious for a short time to get through the BS that they think should be required of everyone in the world. Of course you would say that. That is why we fight back as hard as we do. Because you can't see your own hypocrisy.

The lady stopped going because at the very mention of god, the court becomes a theocratic govt institute and a kangaroo court. She did the right thing and brought her concerns to the judge who dismissed her complaints because the judge obviously sees nothing wrong with bringing god up in official state business. Which could be grounds for a discrimination suit but def would show that the courts preferred a religious method of settling it's business.

I'm glad that's what you notice, you should engage religious people on the board to discuss it further. You can't just ignore a court order without facing consequences. She lost her kids not for religion, but because she ignored court orders. That's fact you can attempt to make it something else but it's not. Feel free to engage the religious on.the board to discuss that piece of it further

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: Tindalos2013
a reply to: C21H30O2I

Salzman was punished for defaulting on the court order. It has nothing to do with religious beliefs.

Kind of how I saw it. Not she refused religion but just stopped going. If your a vegan assigned to pick up trash and stop going because the thought of McDonald's bags with nasty meat in it makes you sick. There will be problems. Not saying she had to buy into the counselors religion, Heck do what I had to do in a few classes in college. Write up some of the most nonsense pc based crap imaginable, put no effort, turn it in and ace it. Ignore it but do what is required especially by the courts. We can push the religious aspect but the real issue is she just quit going. Imagine if everyone just didn't follow the court orders. She stood her ground, I applaud that. If you are willing to accept consequences do it.

I'm noticing a pattern from all of the pro religious posters. They all seem to think everyone should just suck it up and pretend to be religious for a short time to get through the BS that they think should be required of everyone in the world. Of course you would say that. That is why we fight back as hard as we do. Because you can't see your own hypocrisy.

The lady stopped going because at the very mention of god, the court becomes a theocratic govt institute and a kangaroo court. She did the right thing and brought her concerns to the judge who dismissed her complaints because the judge obviously sees nothing wrong with bringing god up in official state business. Which could be grounds for a discrimination suit but def would show that the courts preferred a religious method of settling it's business.

I'm glad that's what you notice, you should engage religious people on the board to discuss it further. You can't just ignore a court order without facing consequences. She lost her kids not for religion, but because she ignored court orders. That's fact you can attempt to make it something else but it's not. Feel free to engage the religious on.the board to discuss that piece of it further

Oh, Hell NO.

I'm atheist. If a counselor can not respect that and insists on using God ---- I'm outta there.

I would immediately notify the court and expect them to appoint a new counselor. If they fail to do that, they are in violation.

What she didn't do is keep calling and following up until she got someone who would listen to her.

I've dealt with some kid/government issues. You do not take NO for an answer. You ask to speak to someone else. And you keep doing that until you get a firm answer --- one that you accept.

Prayer is a private matter between petitioner and their Higher Power.
This was completely unprofessional behavior on the part of the counselor.
Reprehensible behavior on the part of the Court as well.
Shame on them.

Matthew 6:5 comes to mind.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: Tindalos2013
a reply to: C21H30O2I

Salzman was punished for defaulting on the court order. It has nothing to do with religious beliefs.

Kind of how I saw it. Not she refused religion but just stopped going. If your a vegan assigned to pick up trash and stop going because the thought of McDonald's bags with nasty meat in it makes you sick. There will be problems. Not saying she had to buy into the counselors religion, Heck do what I had to do in a few classes in college. Write up some of the most nonsense pc based crap imaginable, put no effort, turn it in and ace it. Ignore it but do what is required especially by the courts. We can push the religious aspect but the real issue is she just quit going. Imagine if everyone just didn't follow the court orders. She stood her ground, I applaud that. If you are willing to accept consequences do it.

I'm noticing a pattern from all of the pro religious posters. They all seem to think everyone should just suck it up and pretend to be religious for a short time to get through the BS that they think should be required of everyone in the world. Of course you would say that. That is why we fight back as hard as we do. Because you can't see your own hypocrisy.

The lady stopped going because at the very mention of god, the court becomes a theocratic govt institute and a kangaroo court. She did the right thing and brought her concerns to the judge who dismissed her complaints because the judge obviously sees nothing wrong with bringing god up in official state business. Which could be grounds for a discrimination suit but def would show that the courts preferred a religious method of settling it's business.

I'm glad that's what you notice, you should engage religious people on the board to discuss it further. You can't just ignore a court order without facing consequences. She lost her kids not for religion, but because she ignored court orders. That's fact you can attempt to make it something else but it's not. Feel free to engage the religious on.the board to discuss that piece of it further

Oh, Hell NO.

I'm atheist. If a counselor can not respect that and insists on using God ---- I'm outta there.

I would immediately notify the court and expect them to appoint a new counselor. If they fail to do that, they are in violation.

What she didn't do is keep calling and following up until she got someone who would listen to her.

I've dealt with some kid/government issues. You do not take NO for an answer. You ask to speak to someone else. And you keep doing that until you get a firm answer --- one that you accept.

Don't care about the religious aspect at all. Don't take no then. What you do not do is ignore the court order and just stop going. You get on the phone every hour but don't quit going without be willing to face consequences. Don't care if you believe in God, Allah, the flying spaghetti monster, the alien in scientology, or nothing at all. Just don't quit following the court order. It's a pain, but people need to understand sometimes there is a game to be played. If you refuse to play the game accept the consequences.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

The God's shouldn't be involved with gov't games, nor should the games involve the Gods.
weather or not she should have went to the counseling I really can't say. But when she did go, I wonder if she had to pretend to go through the motions when it came to God to get the kids back? If she had to read the bible verses, comment on them, ect. To be honest, I might have been there, but I wouldn't have been compliant with her as long as the "God" was part of the topic of the discussion.
What do you think, do you think that that noncompliance would have also been seen in an unfavorable light in the judge's eyes?

a reply to: Annee

initially, not finishing the court order of recommended classes.

I have to agree with HD on this.
While I don't agree at all with what happened to this woman, EVERY day this happens in courts all over the country. Any type of major alcohol infraction, and you get told you have to attend AA classes.

Nobody seems to care about that.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: galaga

I live in NM, too. This was an ALBQ second district court judge. Was that the same for you? You don't have to respond, I'm just trying to get an idea of how this court might be overstepping their bounds...

Here are the judges in that district: seconddistrictcourt.nmcourts.gov...

Scroll down to "Family Court"

It was Elizabeth Whitfield who was the judge in my case too.

She threatened me with contempt if I did not attend.

What pissed me off was the control she had over my life.

I had done that. Finally took control of my life. I wanted to get away from this psycho ex of mine and I couldn't. I was forced to be in the same room with her.

The counseling was non effective.

But I had to go once a week and continue dealing with someone who I no longer had anything to do with. Its called family counseling. And this whore no longer was part of my family.

originally posted by: C21H30O2I
a reply to: Tindalos2013

You know I thought that angle over too. I thought just like you. The court said, take counseling she didn't, cut and dry? No, The court should have at least listened to her and followed accordingly. Not say "I never had a religious complaint about Pepper. The court should have gotten another counselor for her!

At the same time, how unreliable a parent was she?

I am coming from the city of the mother with kids in the cave here; those kids DID NOT live there and were just going to be enrolled and shod and vaccinated and everything else ... according to their mom. Do you automatically give every possibly unfit parent the benefit of the doubt? How many have complained groundlessly to get out of court ordered responsibilities?

What if you ex had complained that she wasn't drunk on that one day but it was all blown out of proportion?

I'm not saying there isn't a problem here, but this person was person of sterling and impeccable character, she likely wouldn't be in the situation she was in too. And that is likely the position of the court when they said they'd had no complaints.

constantly chant "hail Satan" in a monotone.

Stare at her in the eye at all times with stank-eye. While constantly and very disturbingly murmuring hail satan.

Draw pentagrams all over your visible skin before every appoitment.

get really demonic and ritualistic.

Bound to work wonders

Christianity is only A CHOICE of the individual and cannot be mandated by courts of any kind.
Without a voluntary descision why bother?

a reply to: ketsuko

I see, I see. I too, know people that have, lets just say tried to get over. I guess what needs to be done it proper oversight? Know the professionals involved that the court appoints/refers. They should be unbiased up the middle.

I see a lot of people saying she should have just did it and got her children back. Well she did. and as far as she, doing what is right. As too, Pepper should in all her credentials, been professional enough, to be fair and balance hehe if you will. We are talking about a children involved professional service. I hold her up to a higher standard and agenda free.