US Threatens Russia with COLD WAR: Don't Interfere with ISI plans for Syria

a reply to: JDmOKI

I am a citizen of the USA and likely older than you. It is my opinion that our CIA has amassed too much self anointed authority, has stuck its figurative nose where it didn't and does not belong, and is the single most insidious organization in history.

The CIA has done severe harm to this world by their illicit activities.

They leave a trail of dead bodies in their wake.

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: Kapriti

still pure speculation without any proof. Also, Just because I'm US citizen doesn't mean that you're more informed then me.

You are right. You could work for the CIA and know a great deal more than I do.

Not like any information is being banned from access.

Information does not have to be banned — it only needs to be controlled and spun. In your country and in Russia the news delivered to the general public is constantly controlled and spun. It is the way of things from the mightiest state to the nation the size of a mouse.

The USA/CIA would never admit to funding/arming ISL now they would admit to arming the rebels against Assad.

NOTE Syrian rebels are not ISL/ISIS

Governments rarely admit anything at all during the lifetimes of those who could have a grievance in the courts or in the Hague. Actions speak louder than words. Also, sometimes documents come forward in one's lifetime that shine a light on things one could never imagine happening.

By way of example, after the rest of us got to read the OPERATION NORTHWOODS papers prepared by Brig. Gen. Lyman Lemnitzer and the Pentagon, it was clear that parts of the USA federal government were willing to do great evil in order to accomplish their goals — something people like me once thought an impossibility.

On the positive side your President Kennedy removed Lemnitzer because of the report by not appointing him to another term as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs in 1962. And, of course, we all remember President Kennedy's assassination on the 22nd of November 1962. May he rest in peace.

originally posted by: Kapriti

originally posted by: markosity1973
a reply to: Sovan

You know, I still can't figure Putin out - the western media is so content with playing him as the boogeyman yet when one actually listens to the man himself speak, he does make a lot of sense.

Putin clearly loves his country and makes visible his love for the Russian people. I believe those feelings are genuine in him because such feelings run deep in Russians.

Good grief...Putin doesnt give $ about the Russian people..

Ive gotten my hate on for merika, too.

Lets deny some ignorance.

The ISIS needs to be destroyed, their crimes are horrific and include genocide. The consequences of the ISIS expanding into Europe and beyond are far more serious then any threat of a cold war. Europe survived a cold war and it will survive another one but it will not survive the ISIS and their stated goal to Islamify Europe through migration and terror.

originally posted by: Tucket

Good grief...Putin doesnt give $ about the Russian people..

You are remarkably mistaken. Does he have other agendas? Sure. He wants to leave a legacy as most people do. He wants to restore Russia to her former glory by joining together the religious and cultural traditions from the time of the Tsars with the military strength and modernisation of the USSR ... and he wants to surpass those former 'glories' and add to them a functioning independent economy. Will he order the deaths of Russians who get in the way of his 'strategy'? You better believe it. Is he anti-democratic? Clearly! But Russia and the Russian people and his legacy as their leader is what his existence has been about.

If you speak Russian, there are a few of his speeches that are surprisingly candid, something I would never expect of a politician droning on and then ending with Allahu akbar! or God bless America! In general, I view politicians as vermin. But I give this man his due when it comes to expressing his love of country and his countrymen. I cannot unhear the effect of those speeches or his actions with regard to rebuilding churches destroyed by the Communist dictators and their forces.

Will the Tatars, western Ukrainians, USA and the West applaud him? Not bloody likely. But what I wrote about Putin that you find ridiculous I believe to be manifestly true.

a reply to: Kapriti

You are remarkably mistaken.

If he loves his people so much why won't he admit that he is allowing his own people to die in a war that doesn't need to be happening?

Why is he allowing sanctions to stay in place when he can have them removed by removing his troops from Ukraine, but still won't do it because his ego won't allow it, is that how one who loves his people act?

Seems you are the one who is remarkably wrong.

Does he have other agendas? Sure. He wants to leave a legacy as most people do. He wants to restore Russia to her former glory by joining together the religious and cultural traditions from the time of the Tsars with the military strength and modernisation of the USSR ... and he wants to surpass those former 'glories' and add to them a functioning independent economy.

And yet the Russian people want to live in a modern Russia not a 1920's Russia.

Putin is out for one thing...total power and he won't stop till he get's it. Putin wants to go backwards in time while the rest of the world try and move forward...but I guess that's how one shows he care's for his people.

Will the Tatars, western Ukrainians, USA and the West applaud him?

Why would they?

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h

If he loves his people so much why won't he admit that he is allowing his own people to die in a war that doesn't need to be happening?

Why is he allowing sanctions to stay in place when he can have them removed by removing his troops from Ukraine, but still won't do it because his ego won't allow it, is that how one who loves his people act?

Seems you are the one who is remarkably wrong.

As long as ethnic Russians are the majority in a region, he will be there by force if there is any trouble or conflict. Also, any part of any country that was once part of the USSR that wants to be part of Russia, he will take for the sake of Russia's military advantage.

Crimea is majority ethnic-Russian and until Kruschev was part of Russia proper. Eastern Ukraine is largely ethnic Russian because Stalin either killed or sent into exile the vast majority of the inhabitants, and the process of Russification followed with the importation of ethnic Russians into eastern Ukraine. (There is an ethnic German population in Kazakhstan that is a remnant of the large German population that once lived in eastern Ukraine.)

Today, whether anyone likes it or not, eastern Ukraine is largely ethnic Russian, and fairly soon I expect in order to stop the violence Putin will move his troops into securing eastern Ukraine ... especially if NATO moves into western Ukraine and becomes involved in attacking the rebel ethnic Russians in the east. Such an act would, however, plunge Ukraine into total warfare I fear as was outlined many years ago as part of the plan of the Nazi Internationale in a document known as the Madrid Circular ... authored in Barcelona after World War II. (I think the Madrid Circular is unknown by many in the West, but there is a professor, a Dr. Farrell in Oklahoma (USA) who has written a book that discusses it, or so my youngest son tells me.)

Putin and a fairly large majority of ethnic Russians in Russia proper regard the current government in Kyiv as nothing but Nazis. It is important to know this to understand the mentality of Russians and Putin. Whether or not the government is entirely fascist I have no idea, but clearly there are a couple of fascist elements at work in the western Ukraine that are completely unacceptable to Moscow.

Although Putin's ego is great -- no one gets to be at the top of the heap without a very secure sense of self -- the matters discussed above are not simply matters of his ego being fulfilled. There are three areas in descending importance involving Putin and Russia's involvement in Crimea and eastern Ukraine. (1) First, is the welfare of ethnic Russians living outside of the nation of Russia. (2) The second is advancing Russian military advantage (which my late husband would argue is the first reason). (3) Thirdly there is the spectre of the Nazis and the Nazi bogeyman that the government in Kyiv has become in the eyes of many ethnic Russians.

a reply to: NewzNose

Sadly I expect hand in hand with some of my Government's institutions.

What gets me though is how any of us in a Western country would feel were some Islamic country to decide to destroy our legitimately elected parliament- (albeit I am not quite so sure about that today though seeing how the Scottish referendum went).

I suspect Putin will thumb his nose at Kerry's suggestion and any ideas of vetoing Russian action wouldn't get the vote from her allies so that's out for a start.

I don't know how much USA/Russian trade goes on but Europe with its cricks in the making is going to need every bit of hard earned cash to pay for the current fiasco. So the USA certainly won't be able to galvanise support from that quarter either. It seems only Cameron and Obama are the real haters of Putin and that's about personal jealousy because the Guy makes a lot of sense in what he says and his Foreign Minister Lavrov is especially respected and liked also.

The rest of the world all sees exactly what America's, the UK's and Israel's game plans are and perhaps might turn the tables by resorting to a cold war against us - sadly, its well deserved and our financial markets would suffer a catastrophe.

a reply to: andy06shake

This should be copied and pasted and then replied to every political thread. End of thread immediately.

Wake up fools. Are you that naive?

And WWE wrestling is fake too btw. I do remember finding that out when I was like 7 and being a little shocked, but I was seven its easier to take then, but damn grown adults believing such bs!

originally posted by: Kapriti

The USA's behaviour toward ISIL has been bizarre. It is beyond comprehension to most people I know who are not citizens of the USA. Perhaps a new President will give your nation a clearer direction in working to destroy a civilisation crushing threat like ISIS/ISIL/Daesh.

That is the part in all of this that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. America is a shoot first, ask questions later kind of nation, much to the chagrin of the rest of the world usually.

This time it is like they just don't have the will or the energy to actually do something about Syria and ISIS. Unless of course they are hiding something from us...... News about Syria and what is really going on there is almost deliberately scarce.

Putin on the other hand - is he old skool Russian KGB enemy of the West and capitalism, or is he the outspoken voice of reason from the 'other' world super power?

The ME has always been a proxy flashpoint between the U.S. and Russia, since the culmination of WW2. The Cold War may have ended in its most direct, overt form, but it never really did in terms of the proxy chess match imho. It's just more obvious again now because of the conflict in Ukraine and the underlying tensions it brought back to the fore.

Neither Russia nor the U.S. are "the good guy" when it comes to proxy conflict in my view. Both are exploiting the people of the regions in question for strategic advantage.

My two cents. As always, I could be wrong and feel free to disagree.

Peace.

Russia, keep your boots on the ground and use your space technology to topple Isil and all US backed terrorism.

And Americans, either fire or remove your tyrant from office.

I speak up for the women and children and their freedom in this world, their right to be in an andvanced progressing cosmic world.

This is just the US going tit for tat with Russia. Kerry's words line up closely with what Russia said when the US was contemplating sending lethal aid to Ukraine. Funny how the same standards don't apply to Russia. Them and their supporters argued that if the US sent lethal aid to Ukraine it would just prolong and exacerbate the conflict leading to even greater death. But if Russia wants to send lethal aid to Syria it will help bring the conduct to a quick end and save lives.

originally posted by: markosity1973

Putin on the other hand - is he old skool Russian KGB enemy of the West and capitalism, or is he the outspoken voice of reason from the 'other' world super power?

He is definitely not old school. If he were, there would be many, many, many more people dead. And if he were old school USSR KGB enemy of West and capitalism, he would have already ordered the invasion and capture of all former territories of the USSR.

I do not think he is a voice of reason because the West can no longer "hear" him, but I am certain he is a Russian nationalist's Russian nationalist.

Also, unlike President Obama, Putin understands that Abu Bakr al-Baghadi and Daesh/ISIL/ISIS/IS are much closer to the demon of hell and are a much bigger threat to the world than Bashar al-Assad. I don't think that is reason as much as it is wisdom to be able to see clearly which is the worse threat to the world and the stability of the Middle East.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

I recognise your opinion as a sincerely held belief of many in the United States.

That said, the two theatres of war are not the same. They are the proverbial 'apples and oranges'.

In Ukraine, what is taking place is a civil war between the Ukrainians in the western half of Ukraine and the ethnic Russians in the eastern half of Ukraine (and Krimea). It is being used as a proxy war between the EU/USA and Russia on Russia's doorstep. It is provocation and insanity wrapped up in a hot dog bun.

In Syria, the choice is between Bashar al-Assad and Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi of ISIS. The USA has no plan in Syria for replacing Assad even as they had no plan for Iraq and no plan for Libya after toppling Qaddafi. All that would follow toppling Assad is the eventual triumph of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and ISIS.

There is not one person among the so-called 'Syrian Rebels' that the USA is backing publicly who has the strength of character or the army to rule Syria. Hate Assad. He deserves it on many counts. But he is better than Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. I would take an Alawite dictator any day over a Sunni terrorist fanatic lunatic like al-Baghdadi.

a reply to: Kapriti

As long as ethnic Russians are the majority in a region, he will be there by force if there is any trouble or conflict.

Like he did in Crimea?

Oh wait his annexing of Crimea had nothing to do with ethnic Russians, or their want to be part of Russia.

And Putin has admitted this.

Crimea is majority ethnic-Russian and until Kruschev was part of Russia proper.

And they were owned by a few empires before RUssia, so I guess these empires have as much right to Crimea as Russia...It's only fair as they had it first.

Eastern Ukraine is largely ethnic Russian because Stalin either killed or sent into exile the vast majority of the inhabitants, and the process of Russification followed with the importation of ethnic Russians into eastern Ukraine. (There is an ethnic German population in Kazakhstan that is a remnant of the large German population that once lived in eastern Ukraine.)

Except one thing...maybe two.

Just because ethnic Russians live in another country it doesn't give Russia the right to invade that country.

Do you not see what chaos would ensue if other nations did this...I Guess the US has to watch out for Mexico if the Mexicans in the US decide they want to play that card.

Today, whether anyone likes it or not, eastern Ukraine is largely ethnic Russian, and fairly soon I expect in order to stop the violence Putin will move his troops into securing eastern Ukraine ... especially if NATO moves into western Ukraine and becomes involved in attacking the rebel ethnic Russians in the east.

You really believe that could happen don't you?

Well for one thing Ukraine will not get any help from NATO, as they aren't obligated to do anything with Ukraine.

Putin knows the backlash that would bring...why do you think he keeps denying the fact the rest of the world already knows about Russian involvement in Ukraine.

Putin and a fairly large majority of ethnic Russians in Russia proper regard the current government in Kyiv as nothing but Nazis.

Gotta love that Russian media, and you do know there are no Nazi's in the Ukrainian government...although I can't say that about RUssia.

You may have a few people not in the government that have that ideology of the Nazi's...it doesn't mean everyone in Ukraine and their government are Nazi's.

It is important to know this to understand the mentality of Russians and Putin.

Yep, he uses the media to tell them what he wants them to know...if they had the full details about Ukraine they would be outraged.

Whether or not the government is entirely fascist I have no idea, but clearly there are a couple of fascist elements at work in the western Ukraine that are completely unacceptable to Moscow.

That's because they won't take Russia's crap like the former government did. Don't agree with Putin and your a Nazi/facist depending on how he feels that day.

Although Putin's ego is great -- no one gets to be at the top of the heap without a very secure sense of self

They can when they kill or jail those who oppose him, such as what Putin has done to get where he is.

First, is the welfare of ethnic Russians living outside of the nation of Russia.

Crimea had nothing to do with ethnic Russian needing help from anyone, as I said before Putin has admitted this.

Putin reveals secrets of Russia's Crimea takeover plot

Vladimir Putin has admitted for the first time that the plan to annex Crimea was ordered weeks before the referendum on self-determination.

www.bbc.com...

The second is advancing Russian military advantage (which my late husband would argue is the first reason).

They only have an advantage to those who don't like to fight back...that wasn't what he found in Ukraine though and, his advancement is sending troops back in a coffin.

Thirdly there is the spectre of the Nazis and the Nazi bogeyman that the government in Kyiv has become in the eyes of many ethnic Russians.

Thanks to Russian media.

Funny that Ukraine has no Nazi's involved in the government...nor do they have communists in it either.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
Oohh another Russian invasion thread, and I mean of the invading ATS kind.

Complete with multiple RT videos of Putin looking all powerful n stuff.

This should be fun for picking out the corny usernames of the Kremlin squad.

Seriously, the first RT headline is "Obama the antichrist"? Hilarity must ensue so you get a flag.

Ohh boohoo waaaa waaaa someone else is posting the opposite of the propaganda and tripe I post so in going to launch personal attacks instead of debating the points they are making.


There's an obvious pro American lobby in this forum, with obvious handlers for some people.
Some of those people have riled up multiple people and you now see their handlers posting in the same threads as if to keep them in check with their presence. If they actually are real people and not one of those magnificent programs we heard about from Snowden about how online forums and social media are infiltrated.


The Russian build up in Syria and the US response is showing the US for the hypocritical spoiled brats they are.

The us could have ended ISIS..they could have also not created ISIS.

Just like the US and it's allies are supposedly attacking ISIS because they are a threat to Iraq their ally, Russia too is now going to attack ISIS it seems because ISIS is a threat to its ally Syria.

Why can't Russia get involved and bomb ISIS?

Go on American agents, tell us.

Besides the obvious fact that we all know a Russian intervention will end badly for America and her allies ISIS.

a reply to: mortex

Actually, I like these threads.

There are so many Americans who whinge and whine, calling President Obama every bad name under the sun, but as soon as someone shows Putin talking about how bad he is, they all rally and shout it down

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Your estimation of the current Ukrainian government in Kyiv is most upbeat. I do not share your optimism. And I would suspect a Russian of eastern Ukraine would probably laugh at your assertions.

Your characterisation of the Russian occupation of Krimea is without sufficient context and lacking in substance. Putin had several goals. The first and motivating one no doubt had to do with protecting the Russian Black Sea fleet based in the Crimea. (Russian actions in Syria have several reasons, but the move is not unlike the taking of Krim to protect the fleet. The Russians will protect their long time presence in Syria as the USA would do to protect its bases and military assets.)

Any head of country will have as an immediate concern the protection of their military assets in a time of growing chaos in a region. For the Russian government not to have contingency plans to deal with Crimea in place and ready to be activated would be a dereliction of duty on their part.

Reality concerns me. NATO operatives are in Ukraine, and Russian operatives are in Ukraine. Both of these truths are denied by either side. To admit it would be to escalate the conflict, and for now both sides are happy to act as they are doing with official denials.