Turkey crosses into Syria to kill Kurds, not a peep from USA hehehe

The more sticks poking the hornets nest over there means less chance of them coming over here and blowing things up.The whole civil war mess in Syria and Iraq has been a real blessing for the U.S. they are too busy fighting each other that they have no time or resources to be bothering the U.S. it`s almost as if it was planned by someone.

The Kurds lose out again. The only real consistent in ME politics

originally posted by: EightTF
The Kurds lose out again. The only real consistent in ME politics

And the Palestinians.

I'm sure there are others, I don't know about too.

originally posted by: ShortNoodle1
a reply to: MrSpad

You are missing the point

Killing Kurds is now OKAY

Sanctioned by NATO

I am sure you will explain that away, you have explanations for everything.

No you you are missing the point, the facts, and the history. So let me make this as simple as possible for you.

1. The Kurds- The Kurds do not belong to one group. One group is Iraqi, they and the Turks get along very well and Turkey has been their main supporter. One group is in Syria, they and the Turks also get along. One group is in Iran and they and the Turks also get long. Another group is from Turkey, they are called the PKK they are a terrorist group who have been fighting the Turks for decades.

2. The PKK have bases in Syria and Iraq along the Turkish border. From these bases they have traditional y attacked Turkey and also fought with the Iraqi and Syrian Kurds who often operated with in conjunction with Turkey.

3. The PKK and Turkey had a ceasefire that started in 2013. And as ISIS became a threat to both the Syrian and Iraqi Kurds they also came to agreements to work together to deal with common threat of ISIS instead of fighting each other.

4. Last week Turkey had two terrorist attacks, one thought to be ISIS and the other claimed by the PKK. In response Turkey began bombing ISIS and PKK bases.

So in summery -
Turkey is not fighting with any other Kurdish group beyond the PKK. The PKK broke the ceasefire by attacking the Turks and the Turks have retaliated against the PKK. The PKK is the one Kurdish group that has had no Western support because they a know terrorist group and recognized as so by NATO. These are the facts, do with them as you will.

a reply to: ShortNoodle1

Turkey wouldn't do this without USA blessing

Beards of the feather, killers hang together

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

SR - I am the farthest thing from a shill.

I grew up in the "kill a Commie for your Mommy" generation , joined the US Army at 17 and served 21 years.

Turkey our *cough* ally *cough* has been silent for two years and now comes out and attacks the one group in the region we can rely on to fight against ISIS and it's not strange to you?

They have been letting ISIS supporters free reign to run across their border while denying us the use of their airfields, yet we call them "our" ally.

They will continue to allow ISIS supporters free will along their border and we will turn a blind eye to these attacks. Actually we will not turn a blind eye:

- we will call the attacks on Assad forces anti-ISIL attacks within Syria and praise them
- we will ignore the attacks against our one true ally in the region (Kurds)

(EDIT - notice, both sets of these attacks are against those that are fighting against ISIS and not against ISIS itself)

Why is Turkey even considered an ally at this point? Better the devil you know, I suppose.

Turkey is the USA's silent partner in whatever scheme the USA is pulling in the ME. Whether it's creating ISIS as an excuse to rampage against Assad's forces, or rendition bases or CIA bases...

a reply to: 200Plus

You should read the whole thread mate. Oh and stop believing the wild claims of an op that doesn't link any sources.

Turkey’s Focus on Crushing Kurd Extremists Complicates ISIS Efforts
(nytimes.com)

The Kurds that Turkey is bombing are the Syrian Kurdish militias (with only marginal ties to the PKK), and are the only forces that are fighting ISIS on the ground. Turkey is bombing the only ground force fighting ISIS, and with the USAs silent acknowledgement.

ISIS has been a tool used by Turkey (and the US) as an excuse to push their agenda in the ME.

Links between Turkey and ISIS are now 'undeniable'
(businessinsider.com.au)

A US-led raid on the compound housing the Islamic State’s ‘chief financial officer’ produced evidence that Turkish officials directly dealt with ranking ISIS members, Martin Chulov ofthe Guardian reported recently.

Islamic State official Abu Sayyaf was responsible for directing the terror army’s oil and gas operations in Syria. Islamic State (aka ISIS, ISIL, or Daesh) earns up to $US10 million per month selling oil on black markets.

Documents and flash drives seized during the Sayyaf raid reportedly revealed links “so clear” and “undeniable” between Turkey and ISIS “that they could end up having profound policy implications for the relationship between us and Ankara,” a senior western official familiar with the captured intelligence told the Guardian.

originally posted by: MrSpad
4. Last week Turkey had two terrorist attacks, one thought to be ISIS and the other claimed by the PKK. In response Turkey began bombing ISIS and PKK bases.

So in summery -
Turkey is not fighting with any other Kurdish group beyond the PKK. The PKK broke the ceasefire by attacking the Turks and the Turks have retaliated against the PKK. The PKK is the one Kurdish group that has had no Western support because they a know terrorist group and recognized as so by NATO. These are the facts, do with them as you will.

You're basing your reasoning on assumptions.

The Turkish Army suspects the PKK to be behind the car bombing in the Diyarbakir province. Where is the evidence for it? The PKK has not claimed responsability for this attack as far as I'm aware. What would be their motif for attacking a small, Turkish military post? What would they gain from it? It seems to me that they have a lot more to loose than gain.

ISIS on the other hand would gain a lot from staging an attack on Turkish forces and make it look like it was PKK. A broken truce between PKK and Turkey would take pressure off ISIS and further confuse and complicate the war zone.

Turkey is looking with increasing anxiety on how the Kurds are gaining favorable opinions all over the world in their heroic fight against ISIS. They're now receiving military and logistic support from several countries, so Turkey cannot sit back idly while the Kurds and PKK are growing in strength.

It's evident that Turkey's attack on PKK and Kurdish bases is not a retaliation for the car bombing. Erdogan, the Turkish President, has publicly declared that this is a military campaign aiming to thwart any type of Kurdish autonomy in Syria. The car bombing just happened to come along at an opportune time, giving him the pretext he needed to launch the campaign.

Kurdish officials said on the 11th of July that Turkey violated the cease fire:

www.reuters.com...

The Union of Kurdistan Communities (KCK), the Kurdish militants' umbrella political group, on Saturday issued a statement saying that Turkey's construction of military outposts, dams and roads for military purposes had violated the ceasefire. "The Turkish state took advantage of the ceasefire conditions not for a democratic political resolution but to gain an advantageous position in preparation of war by building dozens of guard posts, roads for military purposes and dams in order for a cultural genocide," the statement said.

It now seems very clear that Turkey's attack on Kurdish positions in Syria and Iraq has nothing to do with recent attacks late July on the Turkish military, but is a planned large scale operation that started a while back to reduce Kurdish military strength in Turkey, Syria and Iraq.
Turkey seems to play a similar double game as Pakistan is, officially supporting international efforts to fight the Taliban with one hand, while they train, feed and arm them with the other.

It will be interesting to see what independent journalists will dig up on the Turkey-ISIS connections in the days to come...

Turkey made their bed and has to lie in it now.


They tried to manipulate these crazy jihadists for their own selfish political axes to grind against Syria and the Kurds and now it’s all coming back to bite them in the ass.


They will now pay for dealing with the devil as the US did the same thing by creating these religious Frankenstein’s and playing ball with them


The US, the GULF states, Turkey and NATO have done so much damage as to be on the level with Hitler by cavorting with these religious freaks who are now the new Nazis.

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: FyreByrd
a reply to: ShortNoodle1

Not the Turk's first genocidal outing.

So you support baby killers and terrorists too ?

I suppose as long as the innocent victims are Turks ; it matters not , eh ?

Can you spell ?

H-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y

oh , there is no genocide in Turks history ; the bull# that you are believing to be real has been debunked to death already .

www.tallarmeniantale.com...

You know 23432, whether you call it 'genocide' or something else is just politics. Pope Francis calls it a 'Genocide', UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon calls it an 'Atrocity Crime', Barak Obama pledged as a US Senator that if he was elected President of the United States, he would denounce Turkish war crimes as a genocide... and since he was elected he hasn't. I guess what you call it reflects your political situation and the size of your balls, so respect to Pope Francis for having the biggest set of balls out there.


en.wikipedia.org...

www.history.com...

www.armenian-genocide.org...

originally posted by: Heliocentric

www.tallarmeniantale.com...

If there is a crime , the courts exists ; therefore I ask , why is there no COURT RULING for this alleged genocide ?

Call me a sceptic but I would like to see some EVIDENCE for these alleged crimes ; such as the BONES of those who were killed .
You don't think the bones of the victims would just disappear , do you ?

"Condemnation without hearing both sides is unjust and un-American" Arthur Tremaine Chester, "Angora and the Turks," The New York Times Current History, Feb.1923


"Believing Armenophile publicity 'exaggerated, misconstructed, and abusive,' [Admiral] Bristol in early 1920 told [Rev.] Barton... that it was contrary to the American sense of fair play to kick a man when he was down and give him a chance to defend himself." Joseph L. Grabill, "PROTESTANT DIPLOMACY AND THE NEAR EAST: Missionary influence on American policy, 1810-1927," 1971, p. 264


"...Matter sent to the papers by their correspondents in Turkey is biased against the Turks. This implies an injustice against which even a criminal on trial is protected." Gordon Bennett, publisher, The New York Herald, circa 1915


"No Englishman worthy of the name would condemn a prisoner on the evidence of the prosecution alone, without first hearing the evidence for the defence." C.F. Dixon-Johnson, British author, from his 1916 book, "The Armenians."


"There is no crime without evidence. A genocide cannot be written about in the absence of factual proof." Henry R. Huttenbach, history professor who appears to support the Armenian viewpoint exclusively, as do... curiously... nearly all so-called "genocide scholars"; The Genocide Forum, 1996, No. 9


"It is... time that Americans ceased to be deceived by (Armenian) propaganda in behalf of policies which are... nauseating..." John Dewey, Columbia University professor, "The Turkish Tragedy," The New Republic, Nov. 1928

" All Turkish children also should be killed as they form a danger to the Armenian nation" Hamparsum Boyaciyan, nicknamed "Murad," a former Ottoman parliamentarian who led Armenian guerilla forces, ravaging Turkish villages behind the lines, 1914. Cited from Mikael Varandean, "History of the Dashnaktsutiun." (Alternately known as "History of the A.R.Federation" ["H. H. Dashnaktsutyan Patmutiwn," Paris,1932 and Cairo,1950]. The author [1874-1934] has other works, including "L'Arménie et la Question Arménienne," noted in the library as "Delegation propaganda authenticated by the Armenian delegation at the Paris Peace Conference, 1919"])

"In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul." Sahak Melkonian, Preserving the Armenian Purity, 1920

I have no idea where you get your opinions but one thing is clear ; you are not neutral .

I dare say that this anti-Turk stand you seem to take has some dirty objectives behind it .

originally posted by: 23432

If there is a crime , the courts exists ; therefore I ask , why is there no COURT RULING for this alleged genocide ?

Start looking here, then follow the trail:

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: 23432
Call me a sceptic but I would like to see some EVIDENCE for these alleged crimes ; such as the BONES of those who were killed .
You don't think the bones of the victims would just disappear , do you ?

No they didn't, but since you're in denial-mode you're not looking. The biggest known mass graves are in Sivas (Turkey), Deir ez-Zor (Syria), Bitlis (Turkey), Van (Turkey), Elazığ (Turkey), Adana (Turkey) and Ankara (Turkey), but there are many others spread all over Turkey.

originally posted by: 23432
I have no idea where you get your opinions but one thing is clear ; you are not neutral .

No, I'm not neutral, and I have never claimed to be. My opinions are formed by my moral standards and ethics. I hope you're not imagining that you're neutral, because you're not.

originally posted by: 23432
I dare say that this anti-Turk stand you seem to take has some dirty objectives behind it .

Just for the record, I'm not against Turkey as a country or culture. Turkey's one of the most beautiful and fascinating countries I've visited and worked in. I'm against Recep Erdogan's pathetic conservative Islamism, which as far as I'm concerned has plunged Turkey into a dark age. I think it's a shame that I have to sit here and tell you about the sordid parts of Turkey's history and politics, you young Turks should be out in the streets in protest and put this man and his government on trial for what he's doing to your country.

There are a lot of Americans on this web site questioning and condemning the actions of the US government. By doing so they're not attacking their country, they're defending their beliefs in what their country should be doing. It's what this site is all about IMO.

Recep Erdogan at a conference in Indonesia in July 2015:

“We have only one concern. It is Islam, Islam and Islam. It is impossible for us to accept the overshadowing of Islam. Islam is damaged from what is all being done now. We all have to show the will to categorically deny terrorism without looking at its basis or identity,” said Erdoğan in the Indonesian capital of Jakarta as part of a visit to the Far East and Southeast Asia.

www.hurriyetdailynews.com...

Who are we listening to here? Mollah Omar? No, to Erdogan, the President of the up to recently most modern country in the Near East, that up to recently wanted to be member of the European Union. Why should we not look at the basis or identity of “terrorism”? The less we know the better? What it means is he wants a free pass to shoot at anyone he calls terrorist, whoever he thinks is “damaging Islam”, no questions asked. The guy's just a petty Islamic warlord dressed up in a western suit. How the h..l did he end up running Turkey, the light of the Orient?

Erdoğan also said some people in Turkey who belong to different sects even defended atheists and terrorists due to sectarian reasons. “When it comes to speaking, they say 'We are Muslims.' But on the other hand, we see those who defend both terrorists and atheist organizations just because of that sectarian difference. Therefore, we have to be on alert against those people,” said Erdoğan.

The message he's trying to sneak in here is, if you're Kurdish or belong to another ethnicity of the many peoples that inhabit Turkey since antiquity, you're sectarian, anti-Turkish and not as Muslim as 'real' Turks. This goes in line with Erdogan's beliefs that Turkey should be a nation of only ethic, Sunni Muslim Turks, something it has never been.

Kurds should get their own state in all their majority regions. The map created by the Brits and French post WW1 needs redrawing if there is ever going to be peace in that region. Kurds make a much better ally for west and Israel in the region. They are decent people.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
The map created by the Brits and French post WW1 needs redrawing

There's a lot of borders that needs redrawing, not only in the Middle East, but in Africa, and why not Europe? Why shouldn't the Catalonians or the Basques or the Britons get autonomy if they so wish? Give them the right to vote about their own future, as the Scots did.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

lmgtfy.com...