Affordable Care Act - Obamacare

I am not affected by Obama care. But I am interested in understanding the reasons why so many people believe it's so wrong. I would appreciated getting replies that are fact based reasons why the Affordable Care Act is wrong for the American public.

a reply to: bucsarg

Because it forces us to buy a service and penalizes us for being poor (can't afford insurance, there is a fine).

And my premiums have been going up and not down so it appears to be a gift to the insurance industry and not something designed to help people.

Well for one, where is the affordable dental care act?

Why is dental care regarded as such a low need service for people, when the costs for insurance and even procedures are insane. Not to mention, you have no choice if you need oral surgery, you need oral surgery and longer you wait, more closer to death you arrive.

All i've picked up from this whole thing, is it's a means for the government to pay medical service providers via the patients to insure people can get help when they need it. Sounds great in theory, however, why is any of this left up to costs? When it's people's lives that need help and healing?

We're not human, we charge to heal you, we force people to cough up money just to stay alive in they were dealt a bad hand. And pro bono work is a myth, some places provide assistance at a discount but you suffer and the time to carry out the standard procedures takes much longer.

OBAMAcare should also be known as the great medical money float.

a reply to: bucsarg

It's actually great for a select few. In the past, (before Obama care) the average person could get single person health coverage for say $200 or less. For me, middle age fat guy, it was about $175 a month. The problem was, a person with a pre-existing condition, like diabetes, would have to pay $400 or more, if he could even get coverage.

So Obamacare came in and made it where that guy with Diabetes can now get coverage for the same price as everyone else. Sounds good right? Not exactly. Remember the middle aged fat guy? He now has to pay $450 for much worse coverage than he had before. But.... if he is dirt poor, he can get government subsidies to offset his cost. (Oh and if that same guy who was dirt poor, received his subsidies, then in the course of that year, got a raise and didn't change his health care options.......he has to pay back the part or all of his subsidies he no longer qualifies for.)

From a common sense, not an idiotic point of view, Obama completely decimated the US health care system. at least from a middle aged fat person's perspective.

a reply to: network dude

It's just more actions to help keep our failing economy afloat.

It's paying people for work they have yet to do, really. It's yes giving low income people medical care at the same side, paying companies for doing the same work they did before or less.

We live in the middle of a death spiral.

Because, as I said in the other thread, there's nothing "affordable" about the Affordable Care Act.

I'm solid middle class. Single income. Not close to upper class, not close to lower class. Right down the middle. And since the ACA was passed, everything about my insurance has nearly doubled. Monthly payments, prescriptions, copays, all of it.

So some other people now have insurance whereas they didn't before. Yay for them. Super glad my money was able to get that for them. Because I love giving money away. Sometimes I go to the ATM and get a bunch of money out and then use it to start a fire in my fireplace.

Accomplishes the same thing as far as I'm concerned.

a reply to: bucsarg

Here's one, jusr one, for you to ruminate over.

There is no free medical insurance in the Affordable Care Act whatsoever.

There IS free medical premiums. The system is a co-pay system. No matter one's income level, the recipient is responsible for 20% of the medical bill.

Of course, if you can't pay that 20%, you don't. Here's the sneaky part. You will owe the Gov't that back-bill for the rest of your life. The more one uses that 'free' service, the more the accumulated debt owed the gov't. It is built into the legislation for the gov't to place liens on the insured's estate and gets first dibs on that estate.

Now the real nasty for those low/no income 'beneficiaries' of Obamacare is this, prior to this 'free service', one could tough it out, save one's money, get promoted over time and perhaps buy a car or even a house...perhaps specialized training for one's children. It was a form of upward mobility, albeit, a slow one.

Now? One's credit will be screwed, due to the back-bill owed the gov't, they will grab the accrued money if one uses the traditional banking system, otherwise grab it when one dies via the estate lien.

That route out of poverty will now be closed. Upward mobility virtually a thing of the past when added to the economic woes.

The result an almost permanent welfare class perpetually dependent on gov't and on the party that supports it.

A peon/slave class, all due to this new barrier to improve oneself. Insanity.

The ACA is not good for America for a few reasons.

First: It forces each American to purchase a healthcare plan from a private insurance company or pay an increasing year-over-year fee if you do not. If you are "wealthy" or well-off, you can afford the insurance. If you are poor, you are covered by medicare. But if you are middle class, that is where you get hit. The middle class is at a complete disadvantage because they either have to pay for expensive insurance, or pay the fine.

Second: Since we are all required to buy insurance or pay a fine, the insurance companies recognize that they can charge whatever they want and there is not much the people can do about it. The industry has worked together to slowly increase premiums to the point it is almost completely affordable for the average middle class family. It also comes as a detriment to small business that offer insurance to their employees.

Third: Last, this was not a plan to get more people covered by health insurance. This is a scam to funnel more money to the corporate insurance companies or to the government. If they were really interested in providing coverage to more people, they would have created a single-payer program, or better yet, a universal healthcare system.

We would have been better off with a socialist program, rather than this piece of garbage that either enriches the corporations or the government.

a reply to: bucsarg

Without ACA I would not even be able to get health care. I'm mystified as to why conservatives oppose it so vehemently, when red states are the ones who need it most. I don't think it's perfect by any means... but Republicans have yet to offer a viable alternative, so they can all go pound sand as far as I'm concerned.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Do you have some info to backup that claim?

If you are referring to the 80/20 MLR part of Obamacare, that has nothing to do with the public. It requires the insurance companies to spend at least 80% of premiums towards medical costs and services, the other 20 on administrative costs and such.

I've never seen anything like what you have described.

What gets me, there are things in Obama care that are beneficial to the public. If conservatives don't like the idea of the fines, than instead of trying to repeal something that has some good in it, amend the parts that don't benefit the insured and uninsured. My daughter was on it when she lost her job. She found out it covered more than the insurance she had on her old job!

If the conservatives have a better plan, than present one. They're so bent on repealing it, yet they offer no alternative. It would be better to amend a program to make it better than to trash a plan that has helped the uninsured and prevented insurance companies from denying coverage.

a reply to: Blazemore2000

Awesome that you were able to get health insurance. But while it made it affordable for you, there were many others who were priced out of their excellent coverages to force them to buy into the subpar ACA plans. Forcing those folks out of their current plans and onto the ACA plans ensures that your coverage is subsidized.

So while you're enjoying your coverage, you should recognize where it actually came from.

originally posted by: Blazemore2000
a reply to: bucsarg

Without ACA I would not even be able to get health care. I'm mystified as to why conservatives oppose it so vehemently, when red states are the ones who need it most. I don't think it's perfect by any means... but Republicans have yet to offer a viable alternative, so they can all go pound sand as far as I'm concerned.

I don't give a rats ass what party you are affiliated with. From a real world perspective this needs to be looked at from an individual perspective. I make the same money no matter how I vote. So do you.
If this system helps you out, fantastic. I am glad somebody is getting something out of it. I just know that I personally get screwed twice on this deal, and neither time was it voluntary or enjoyable.

For the people complaining that the ACA forces citizens to buy a product/service from a private entity...you can all thank the Republicans for that.

Anybody remember a little thing called the "Public Option" with the ACA? Oh yeah...that was where there would be a public health plan option you could purchase (think medicare) instead of having to buy from the private health insurance companies.

But of course...Republicans cried "socialism" and demanded the public option be taken out.

So if you are pissed about that aspect of the ACA...go thank a Republican.

originally posted by: WeRpeons
What gets me, there are things in Obama care that are beneficial to the public. If conservatives don't like the idea of the fines, than instead of trying to repeal something that has some good in it, amend the parts that don't benefit the insured and uninsured. My daughter was on it when she lost her job. She found out it covered more than the insurance she had on her old job!

If the conservatives have a better plan, than present one. They're so bent on repealing it, yet they offer no alternative. It would be better to amend a program to make it better than to trash a plan that has helped the uninsured and prevented insurance companies from denying coverage.

The old way. the way it was seemed to work fine for a whole lot of people. What happened is we stuck screwed the middle class to offer a tiny portion of the upper-lower class a bonus. Could there have been something put in place to assist the tiny portion that this massive con job affected?

Again, before, coverage was good, cost was acceptable, yet what I thought was a bit high. Now, coverage sucks, cost is WAAAAY too high, and since I cannot afford it, I have to pay out of pocket for any care I receive, and I have to pay a penalty for not being able to afford it. Explain to me how that's a good thing?

originally posted by: kruphix
For the people complaining that the ACA forces citizens to buy a product/service from a private entity...you can all thank the Republicans for that.

Anybody remember a little thing called the "Public Option" with the ACA? Oh yeah...that was where there would be a public health plan option you could purchase (think medicare) instead of having to buy from the private health insurance companies.

But of course...Republicans cried "socialism" and demanded the public option be taken out.

So if you are pissed about that aspect of the ACA...go thank a Republican.

Obama is republican? He is the one who pushed this through right? The President of the US. Big ears, kind of a dumb ass? that guy, right?

originally posted by: Elton
a reply to: bucsarg

Because it forces us to buy a service and penalizes us for being poor (can't afford insurance, there is a fine).

And my premiums have been going up and not down so it appears to be a gift to the insurance industry and not something designed to help people.

We all pay for 'uninsured' people through our taxes anyway (unless you don't pay your taxes).

It is a gift to the insurance companies - so universal single payer is the answer to that.

If you are truly poor and live in a state that accepted the medicaid expansion you don't have to pay a cent for full coverage.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: kruphix
For the people complaining that the ACA forces citizens to buy a product/service from a private entity...you can all thank the Republicans for that.

Anybody remember a little thing called the "Public Option" with the ACA? Oh yeah...that was where there would be a public health plan option you could purchase (think medicare) instead of having to buy from the private health insurance companies.

But of course...Republicans cried "socialism" and demanded the public option be taken out.

So if you are pissed about that aspect of the ACA...go thank a Republican.

Obama is republican? He is the one who pushed this through right? The President of the US. Big ears, kind of a dumb ass? that guy, right?

You obviously did not pay attention during the ACA debate.

Go back and refresh yourself about the public option debate regarding the ACA.

a reply to: introvert

Wanna bet? Those that are relegated to Medicare have an 80-20 split.

It's only a new tax shoved down the throats of the American people, Democrats or Republicans may talk about getting rid of it but they will never do it!, ask yourselves why $$$$$$.
It all depends how much abuse we can take from our gov and yes I pay twice than before and pissed.