Affordable Care Act - Obamacare

a reply to: kruphix

Partisan politics aside, I can't think of a reason to thank anyone for this cluster.

I couldn't afford healthcare before the ACA, just the same as I can't afford it today. The only difference is I am now fined/taxed for not being able to purchase something.

If I needed medical services before the ACA, I got on a payment plan if the cost was too much. Now, if I need medical services, I get on a payment plan if the cost is too much AND I get a nice fine/tax to go along with it.

Can't wait for the next product the Government deems mandatory to purchase!

originally posted by: manuelram16
It's only a new tax shoved down the throats of the American people, Democrats or Republicans may talk about getting rid of it but they will never do it!, ask yourselves why $$$$$$.
It all depends how much abuse we can take from our gov and yes I pay twice than before and pissed.

I'm not paying any new tax.

I have a good health insurance plan, I get care when I need it, I don't have to worry about my insurance dropping me if they find out I had a sore throat when I was 2 years old that I failed to report to them.

If you pay double than what you did before, you didn't have health insurance before...you had a scam and a security blanket that never would have actually covered you when you needed it.

a reply to: kruphix

LOL, yea, I was there. And the fact that Romney wrote a similar bill is super nice and all, but I didn't vote for Romney. Lots of folks didn't. That's kind of why he isn't the president. Now that dude Obama? Yea, he is the president. He got most of the votes. And Obama, the president, a democrat, is the one who pushed OBAMACARE through the system and implemented it. But to make you feel a bit better, if Ronald Reagan pushed this turd through, and it affected my finances like this did, I would feel just the same. So save your "blame the republicans for this since it sucks and all" speech for those who like that sort of lie.

originally posted by: KawRider9
a reply to: kruphix

Partisan politics aside, I can't think of a reason to thank anyone for this cluster.

I couldn't afford healthcare before the ACA, just the same as I can't afford it today. The only difference is I am now fined/taxed for not being able to purchase something.

If I needed medical services before the ACA, I got on a payment plan if the cost was too much. Now, if I need medical services, I get on a payment plan if the cost is too much AND I get a nice fine/tax to go along with it.

Can't wait for the next product the Government deems mandatory to purchase!

If you are too "poor" to afford healthcare, then you should be getting subsidies through the exchanges. If you don't qualify for subsidies on the exchanges, then you are not really poor...but most likely just aren't prioritizing health costs as high as you should.

originally posted by: kruphix

originally posted by: manuelram16
It's only a new tax shoved down the throats of the American people, Democrats or Republicans may talk about getting rid of it but they will never do it!, ask yourselves why $$$$$$.
It all depends how much abuse we can take from our gov and yes I pay twice than before and pissed.

I'm not paying any new tax.

I have a good health insurance plan, I get care when I need it, I don't have to worry about my insurance dropping me if they find out I had a sore throat when I was 2 years old that I failed to report to them.

If you pay double than what you did before, you didn't have health insurance before...you had a scam and a security blanket that never would have actually covered you when you needed it.

I'd ask you to back that up, but knowing you are blowing hot air, I'll not bother. Amazingly enough, I fully understand how MY finances work. It's super that you fit into the tiny narrative that this garbage was made for. good for you.

originally posted by: Elton
a reply to: bucsarg

Because it forces us to buy a service and penalizes us for being poor (can't afford insurance, there is a fine).

And my premiums have been going up and not down so it appears to be a gift to the insurance industry and not something designed to help people.

Are you in a State without expanded Medicaid? That's been a big problem for a lot of people. That was not the intention of the Federal ACA law, but the refusal to implement the Medicaid Expansion by individual states. Anyway, I'm sorry you are in that position! The ACA as it stands is not perfect, and if we had a responsible government, they would be listening to people in your position and finding solutions in Congress and the Senate.


AB

a reply to: kruphix

Do the math. Between $35-50 a year. Any subsidies to be had? Nope. Self employed. Any guarantees to the amount of income? nope. Make just enough to get by? Yep.

It's a lovely place called "the real world". You should visit sometime.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: kruphix

LOL, yea, I was there. And the fact that Romney wrote a similar bill is super nice and all, but I didn't vote for Romney. Lots of folks didn't. That's kind of why he isn't the president. Now that dude Obama? Yea, he is the president. He got most of the votes. And Obama, the president, a democrat, is the one who pushed OBAMACARE through the system and implemented it. But to make you feel a bit better, if Ronald Reagan pushed this turd through, and it affected my finances like this did, I would feel just the same. So save your "blame the republicans for this since it sucks and all" speech for those who like that sort of lie.

I'll give Obama credit for the ACA...because he deserves and it is working despite what Fox News parrots say.

The only thing I am putting on the Republicans is the fact that they forced the public option out of the bill. With the public option, insurance costs would be lower and no one would have been forced to buy from a private insurance entity.

Now, all the Conservatives/Republicans/Obamahaters are crying about having to buy from insurance companies, and that this bill only benefits the insurance companies, and why do we even have insurance companies. Well guess what...if we had the public option in the bill...you wouldn't have to buy from insurance companies, the bill wouldn't benefit the insurance companies, and the biggest reasons Republicans threw their hissy fit about the public option was because it would cut into insurance companies profits too much and if too many people went with the public option than some insurance companies would go out of business.

So yes...if you are pissed about the aspect of the ACA forcing you to buy from private insurance companies and that they are getting more customers...go blame the Republican congressmen that pushed the public option out of the bill.

a reply to: kruphix

Not a single republican voted for the ACA. ZERO. ZILCH. Obama had full control of both houses and could have passed whatever he wanted due to the backroom dealings of Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi at the time. If a public option was desired, they could have put it in the bill and it would have passed.

Democrats own the ACA 100%, but yet it always some how Republican's responsibility to fix this mess?

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: introvert

Wanna bet? Those that are relegated to Medicare have an 80-20 split.

True, but that has been in effect for medicare B long before the ACA was implemented. The government does not cover that 20% and then go after the persons wealth to cover the debt.

originally posted by: AboveBoard

originally posted by: Elton
a reply to: bucsarg

Because it forces us to buy a service and penalizes us for being poor (can't afford insurance, there is a fine).

And my premiums have been going up and not down so it appears to be a gift to the insurance industry and not something designed to help people.

Are you in a State without expanded Medicaid? That's been a big problem for a lot of people. That was not the intention of the Federal ACA law, but the refusal to implement the Medicaid Expansion by individual states. Anyway, I'm sorry you are in that position! The ACA as it stands is not perfect, and if we had a responsible government, they would be listening to people in your position and finding solutions in Congress and the Senate.

AB

And we should note that most of the States that refused the Medicare Expansion were states with Republican Governors who did it to try to protest the ACA. Which in fact all it did was punish their own constituents.

originally posted by: Edumakated
Not a single republican voted for the ACA. ZERO. ZILCH.

That's representation for you at its finest.

originally posted by: bucsarg
I am not affected by Obama care. But I am interested in understanding the reasons why so many people believe it's so wrong. I would appreciated getting replies that are fact based reasons why the Affordable Care Act is wrong for the American public.

ACA is an attempt by government to fix a problem that government created. Healthcare is a mess now because of disjointed government interference in the market. Instead of getting government out of the way so it can function like a normal insurance market, government continues to meddle which has made access to health insurance even worse.

originally posted by: Edumakated
a reply to: kruphix

Not a single republican voted for the ACA. ZERO. ZILCH. Obama had full control of both houses and could have passed whatever he wanted due to the backroom dealings of Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi at the time. If a public option was desired, they could have put it in the bill and it would have passed.

Democrats own the ACA 100%, but yet it always some how Republican's responsibility to fix this mess?

He didn't have a supermajority to be able to pass whatever he wanted.

That is a Fox News lie that has been fed down your throat so much that it is an auto response for most Conservatives.

Republicans didn't vote for the bill...but if you understand how Congress works, you will understand that they voted to allow the bill to be brought to a vote knowing it would pass. They didn't have to do that...they could of roadblocked it due to the Democrats not having a super majority...but they didn't. And the reason they didn't is because they negotiated with Obama and the Democrats to modify the ACA on some items...one of those items was the public option.

If you don't understand how Congress works, the procedures, the rules, how things are brought up to a vote, and you just listen to Fox News...you are going to be mislead.

a reply to: network dude

The old way was far from perfect. Over 50 million people were without healthcare insurance. You couldn't get insurance if you had pre-existing health conditions. Young people couldn't stay on their parents health insurance plans when they reached 18 years old, and insurance companies could cap the amount they pay out if your treatment exceeded the amount they allocated. You can't ignore these benefits that are offered under the Obama Care plan.

Having said that, the Obama Care plan has a long way to go, until every American has healthcare. We're the only industrialized nation that doesn't cover it's citizen's health care. Yet our government can order our children to fight their wars, and expect the American public to spend trillions of dollars a year on the military and overseas bases.

I don't know about you, but I prefer my taxes to go toward helping American citizens at home rather than a war machine.
We spend billions of dollars toward foreign aid yet we can't give our own citizens the human right to health care in this country. The cost of health care in this country is outrageous, and it was just as outrageous before the implementation of Obama Care. The cost of Prescriptions are also ridiculous.

Turning someone away who is sick or dying because they don't have healthcare insurance is just despicable, and we do this everyday in this country. It's funny, but the same Christian people who hail they follow a Christ like life are the same ones who would prefer to repeal a program that has helped some uninsured people in this country.

a reply to: KawRider9

Or, if your Obamacare premium is more than 8% of your total income, you can claim exemption.

originally posted by: kruphix

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: kruphix

LOL, yea, I was there. And the fact that Romney wrote a similar bill is super nice and all, but I didn't vote for Romney. Lots of folks didn't. That's kind of why he isn't the president. Now that dude Obama? Yea, he is the president. He got most of the votes. And Obama, the president, a democrat, is the one who pushed OBAMACARE through the system and implemented it. But to make you feel a bit better, if Ronald Reagan pushed this turd through, and it affected my finances like this did, I would feel just the same. So save your "blame the republicans for this since it sucks and all" speech for those who like that sort of lie.

I'll give Obama credit for the ACA...because he deserves and it is working despite what Fox News parrots say.

The only thing I am putting on the Republicans is the fact that they forced the public option out of the bill. With the public option, insurance costs would be lower and no one would have been forced to buy from a private insurance entity.

Now, all the Conservatives/Republicans/Obamahaters are crying about having to buy from insurance companies, and that this bill only benefits the insurance companies, and why do we even have insurance companies. Well guess what...if we had the public option in the bill...you wouldn't have to buy from insurance companies, the bill wouldn't benefit the insurance companies, and the biggest reasons Republicans threw their hissy fit about the public option was because it would cut into insurance companies profits too much and if too many people went with the public option than some insurance companies would go out of business.

So yes...if you are pissed about the aspect of the ACA forcing you to buy from private insurance companies and that they are getting more customers...go blame the Republican congressmen that pushed the public option out of the bill.

So since all the bad parts of this garbage are republicans fault, and all the good things are because Obama is super, I am supposed to enjoy being screwed? Is that about right?

Again, all politics aside, this doesn't work for me, and it doesn't work for the majority of the country. (you can even use the google to see how many in the US are middle class as opposed to "other")

Before this was passed, I was happy. Most middle class folks could afford insurance, and those who couldn't didn't have a fine for being poor. Now, insurance has doubled, coverage has decreased, and if you cannot afford it, you get fined.

If it went away and we could go back to how it was, I would be elated.

a reply to: kruphix

Good for you being in the 'Pencil Pusher' crowd, the gov will take care of you from cradle to grave,
But there is a real world out there were people actually work and yes reality sucks.

Anybody ask yourselves why Healthcare in Canada is lower than USA ?, even in Mexico there are a lot of MD trained in the US and their costs are 20% of USA... one thing they don't have is Lawyers and Insurance companies jacking up the cost to exorbitant levels, and to add insult to injury why is GE & Congress exempt from Obamacare ?

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: kruphix

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: kruphix

LOL, yea, I was there. And the fact that Romney wrote a similar bill is super nice and all, but I didn't vote for Romney. Lots of folks didn't. That's kind of why he isn't the president. Now that dude Obama? Yea, he is the president. He got most of the votes. And Obama, the president, a democrat, is the one who pushed OBAMACARE through the system and implemented it. But to make you feel a bit better, if Ronald Reagan pushed this turd through, and it affected my finances like this did, I would feel just the same. So save your "blame the republicans for this since it sucks and all" speech for those who like that sort of lie.

I'll give Obama credit for the ACA...because he deserves and it is working despite what Fox News parrots say.

The only thing I am putting on the Republicans is the fact that they forced the public option out of the bill. With the public option, insurance costs would be lower and no one would have been forced to buy from a private insurance entity.

Now, all the Conservatives/Republicans/Obamahaters are crying about having to buy from insurance companies, and that this bill only benefits the insurance companies, and why do we even have insurance companies. Well guess what...if we had the public option in the bill...you wouldn't have to buy from insurance companies, the bill wouldn't benefit the insurance companies, and the biggest reasons Republicans threw their hissy fit about the public option was because it would cut into insurance companies profits too much and if too many people went with the public option than some insurance companies would go out of business.

So yes...if you are pissed about the aspect of the ACA forcing you to buy from private insurance companies and that they are getting more customers...go blame the Republican congressmen that pushed the public option out of the bill.

So since all the bad parts of this garbage are republicans fault, and all the good things are because Obama is super, I am supposed to enjoy being screwed? Is that about right?

Again, all politics aside, this doesn't work for me, and it doesn't work for the majority of the country. (you can even use the google to see how many in the US are middle class as opposed to "other")

Before this was passed, I was happy. Most middle class folks could afford insurance, and those who couldn't didn't have a fine for being poor. Now, insurance has doubled, coverage has decreased, and if you cannot afford it, you get fined.

If it went away and we could go back to how it was, I would be elated.

Oh come on, things were not okay before the ACA was passed. If you believe that, you are looking at the past through rose colored glasses. Honestly, that is probably the most absurd statement I have heard about the ACA....that things were great before it was passed.

Here's the thing...some people, like you, just aren't going to be happy with anything Obama does. You will ignore facts, you will ignore data, and you will just keep on with the talking points.

The ACA isn't perfect, but it's working...uninsured rates have dropped dramatically. If we had the public option, which the Republicans made sure we didn't, we would be in much better shape. If all States would have expanded Medicare, which the majority that didn't were due to Republican Governors "protesting" the ACA, we would be in much better shape.

And here is the thing...we can't go back to how it was before. That is the hidden beauty of how the ACA was written, and the Republicans know this...that is why their talk about repealing it is just to please their base. We have a few options...make the ACA work as it is, modify the ACA to include things like the public option and force all States to expand Medicare, or scrap the ACA and go to single payer which would be Medicare for all.

There is no going back...that is just logistically impossible.

originally posted by: bucsarg
I am not affected by Obama care. But I am interested in understanding the reasons why so many people believe it's so wrong. I would appreciated getting replies that are fact based reasons why the Affordable Care Act is wrong for the American public.

I'll give one, personal, and very good example.

The word "Affordable" - I think they should have looked up that word before they used it. In my case, it was anything but 'affordable'.

I pay roughly 1k per month to cover my entire family, total of 7 people.

So, when the 'affordable' care act came out, (though I thought then and still think now, that's it's *illegal* for the Gov't to *require* any Citizen to purchase a product or service from a 3rd party, with out a proper, no-penalty 'opt out' for those who don't wish to participate...it's a medical ponzi scheme IMHO), I decided to go and check it out, to see if all the hype and what turned out to be complete bull@#! promises were true...

So, for my family of 7....

Current: Approx. 1k/month. $25 per visit, prescriptions about $15-20, depending upon generic or name brand. Most labs, free.

"Affordable": $2495/month, and that's with less coverage, and not including additional *more* out of pocket expenses.

How's that 'affordable'?

Not the best with math on the planet, but can someone show me just how almost $2500 per month is more affordable or less expensive than $1,000 a month? Even if we all got sick twice a week, with doc visits and prescriptions on the current plan, we would come nowhere near that premium....even with a hospital stay for each, every week.