Greece debt audit committee deems debt "illegal, illegitimate and odious"

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: liteonit6969

All debt created by private fractional reserve banking should be considered illegal, illegitimate and odious.

We need to erase the world's debt to bankers and build a surplus, debt free, society.

Who creates the debt? The bank of the person (or government) who is willing to take on a loan to spend more than they actually have?

Actually neither. The system creates debt. The only way to stimulate the system is to create more debt in the system.

The system is broke, and it was built that way.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Btw, all you people who laud Iceland?

Why aren't you all on your way there now?

Because there immigration is the toughest in the bloody world.

I'd ditch the UK and live there in a heartbeat if I got a visa.

Just cause America has open borders do t assume Everyone else does or that a U.S. passport gives one special rights to immigrate

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: ketsuko
Btw, all you people who laud Iceland?

Why aren't you all on your way there now?

Because there immigration is the toughest in the bloody world.

I'd ditch the UK and live there in a heartbeat if I got a visa.

And now you know why they were able to do what they did. They keep it small and insular and they are beholden to no one but themselves and I'll guess they are also able to more or less be self-sufficient basically because if you are prone to not paying off the debt you have incurred, you have to be because it will be quite a while before anyone will trust you with a loan.

Don't me wrong. I hate debt and having to pay it off. But only an idiot thinks they can take out loans and then suddenly declare that it's immoral to have to pay them back as a way to get out of the obligation.

If you don't want to be in debt, don't take out loans. It's that simple at every level.

You don't get to have the luxury of taking out debt and then declaring it immoral to excuse yourself. Either it's immoral to both take it out and make someone pay it back which means you never go into debt in the first place, or you pony up and admit that you signed up for the debt and pay it off like everyone else who borrows money.

a reply to: ketsuko

And I don't. I never borrow more than I can afford

What I don't think is fair is governments and corps taking out loans in my name and then expecting ME to foot the bill when it goes tits up.

That's not personal responsibility thats theft!

I only want to pay for my own debts thank you not yours, your governments or my governments.

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: ketsuko

And I don't.

What don't think is fair is governments and corps taking out loans in my name and then expecting ME to foot the bill when it goes tits up.

That's not personal responsibility this theft!

I only want to pay for my own debts thank you not yours, your governments or my governments.

Well we can both agree to that, but when I suggest that the government cut spending, I get called a heartless conservative.

Everyone wants government to spend less until they realize that it means they have to get less themselves.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: liteonit6969

All debt created by private fractional reserve banking should be considered illegal, illegitimate and odious.

We need to erase the world's debt to bankers and build a surplus, debt free, society.

Who creates the debt? The bank of the person (or government) who is willing to take on a loan to spend more than they actually have?

The bank creates debt through the interest on the loan also banks that control the money of nations creates the conditions that forces nation to take out loans because their money loses value due to inflation created by the banks.

Did you skip basic econ class?

Missed a few classes yourself didn't you.

a reply to: ketsuko

Well we can both agree to that, but when I suggest that the government cut spending, I get called a heartless conservative.

What programs are you wanting to cut to save money? If it is programs that people need to survive then that would make you a heartless conservative. But if you want to cut something like our over bloated defense budget then that wouldn't make you a heartless conservative.

For the record, "odious debt" is an international legal term with powerful ramifications. Many times, new governments use it when describing debt created by former dictators that was used for personal gain instead of for the nation. They use the argument of "odious debt" to try to get out of having to pay it back.

Odious Debt
Odious Debt: When Dictators Borrow, Who Repays the Loan?
en.wikipedia.org...

It would be like a new US President & Congress declaring the no-bid contracts to Halliburton as being illegal & odious, then demanding nullification of any American debt that was used to pay those contracts. So this will be interesting to see the details Greece brings out if they're actually going to go this route in the international courts.

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: liteonit6969

All debt created by private fractional reserve banking should be considered illegal, illegitimate and odious.

We need to erase the world's debt to bankers and build a surplus, debt free, society.

If I could star you 1000 times .

a reply to: buster2010

Banks do not print the money.

My bank does not print money. Does yours?

Debt is not created by printing money. It is only created when you spent more than you have.

Yes, the government decided to print money as a means of creating a loan to itself, but that is still a problem created by spending more than they actually had. It is still a loan. They still created debt by doing it, and it will still need to be paid back.

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: ketsuko

Well we can both agree to that, but when I suggest that the government cut spending, I get called a heartless conservative.

What programs are you wanting to cut to save money? If it is programs that people need to survive then that would make you a heartless conservative. But if you want to cut something like our over bloated defense budget then that wouldn't make you a heartless conservative.

I look at this way. Everyone will claim that they need a program to survive. In the end, either we all make do with less, or the system comes down and we all suddenly have nothing. Greece is actually reaching that point. Everyone there who had government cheese coming in is facing possibly having nothing instead of simply having much less.

Which would you prefer?

a reply to: enlightenedservant
I like how people are talking about people living beyond their means but well, at least here in the US, when the banks got into trouble, is was more like a gambling debt on their part, and the people really didn't have that much to do with it. At least we had housing busts that were just as big and it didn't cause as much headaches as we got this time around. of course, bankers actually went to jail those times.
In america we bailed out the banks, but we had the advantage of being able to print money postponing the day of reckoning. but greece couldn't do this, so well the took a percentage of some depositor's accounts, they cut gov't programs, ect.
maybe this is where they are seeing it as odious debt.
if so, I agree with them!

Germany should pay off Greeks debt. They are rich and built on the destruction of other people. It's cash back time, how much to pay.

Did Germany ever compensate for murdering Greeks Jewish population (destruction of much of its business set up) and if not it's time to cough up? The Germans supply Israel with nuke capable submarines still to this day at discounted prices, why not give the Greeks a big discount too for all the Greek Jews and Christians murdered and all the destruction to Greek trade back then.

a reply to: ketsuko

Banks do not print the money. My bank does not print money. Does yours?

Your bank does create money electronically. Perhaps you should study up on how the fractal banking system works.

Yes, the government decided to print money as a means of creating a loan to itself, but that is still a problem created by spending more than they actually had. It is still a loan. They still created debt by doing it, and it will still need to be paid back.

The government doesn't control the printing of the money the fed reserve does all money printed in this country are fed reserve notes. Also seeing how the money is backed by nothing the debt can be just wiped away.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: buster2010

Banks do not print the money.

My bank does not print money. Does yours?

Debt is not created by printing money. It is only created when you spent more than you have.

Yes, the government decided to print money as a means of creating a loan to itself, but that is still a problem created by spending more than they actually had. It is still a loan. They still created debt by doing it, and it will still need to be paid back.

Goodness me, you do talk a lot for someone that knows nothing! Governments don't print money loll

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: ketsuko

Banks do not print the money. My bank does not print money. Does yours?

Your bank does create money electronically. Perhaps you should study up on how the fractal banking system works.

Yes, the government decided to print money as a means of creating a loan to itself, but that is still a problem created by spending more than they actually had. It is still a loan. They still created debt by doing it, and it will still need to be paid back.

The government doesn't control the printing of the money the fed reserve does all money printed in this country are fed reserve notes. Also seeing how the money is backed by nothing the debt can be just wiped away.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Germany should pay off Greeks debt. They are rich and built on the destruction of other people. It's cash back time, how much to pay.

Germany doesn't owe Greece a dime. In fact they had been loaning Greece money to pay it's debt but cut them off.

Did Germany ever compensate for murdering Greeks Jewish population (destruction of much of its business set up) and if not it's time to cough up?

Greece should hit Israel up for the money because that is who Germany has been paying reparations to.

a reply to: liteonit6969

The problem is very simple: Greek people seem to think that taxes are illegal, illegitimate and odious.

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: paraphi

Eliminating the debt and private fractional reserve banking is not "Fairy Land", it was what the founding fathers envisioned.

This is not a utopian ideology, it is common sense math.

I wouldn't be so sure of this assertion. Alexander Hamilton, along with other Federalists, were essential to getting the first Bank of the United States chartered, and anything Hamilton wanted to do, George Washington would listen.

Though it's interesting that you are dragging the founding fathers into this discussion like you know the political will of them or think that their ideologies were all unified. Politicians have been bickering with each other since the country was founded. To say something so simple as that the founding fathers wouldn't want such and such or envisioned such and such is naive and short sighted. I could see a FEW founding fathers disagreeing with the fed, but I can also see a bunch that would go right along with it.

a reply to: liteonit6969

TPTB are using debt and currencies as weapons against the very fabric of society. The entire system is corrupted to a point it can not be trusted at all. This house of cards can not last forever and currency bubbles will pop with economic fallout that will reach the social level.




Why are the doing this is the question........They know it will fail......WHY do it?