Children as young as 12 are receiving drugs to prepare them for sex change!

a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

Someone is having trouble with written English - that is for certain. A male that thinks its a female...

a reply to: kaylaluv
Do you think grammar will be the deciding factor if this issue makes it to the courts?

Or is that just a convenient distraction from the issue?

ETA: Does no one consider intent anymore? It's like we live in a world full of verbal land mines, and we are expected to tiptoe through human interaction in order to avoid the misinterpretation of our words by someone else. How thin does a person's skin have to be to be hurt by a pronoun?? Besides, I would have figured a gender-neutral pronoun to be more appropriate.

a reply to: Cuervo

I am going to say this one more time. I have NO prejudice, bigotry, hatred, etc. toward transgendered individuals. My use of "male thinking it is female" or "female thinking it is male" was not meant in any way shape or form as derogatory. Please, get off this thread so it can continue in the manner it was intended to go.

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
a reply to: kaylaluv
Do you think grammar will be the deciding factor if this issue makes it to the courts?

Or is that just a convenient distraction from the issue?

Dude. You were dragging it on. It's only irrelevant when you are wrong about it?

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
a reply to: kaylaluv
Do you think grammar will be the deciding factor if this issue makes it to the courts?

Or is that just a convenient distraction from the issue?

Oh this isn't about grammar any more than calling a black person the n- word is about grammar. Give me a break.

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: Cuervo

I am going to say this one more time. I have NO prejudice, bigotry, hatred, etc. toward transgendered individuals. My use of "male thinking it is female" or "female thinking it is male" was not meant in any way shape or form as derogatory. Please, get off this thread so it can continue in the manner it was intended to go.

No.

I will not "get off this thread". It is "intended to go" wherever the ATS membership takes it as long as it is on topic. I'm pretty sure that general derogatory comments about transgender people (no matter how veiled it is in some innocent persona) is absolutely relevant when discussing making the lives of children easier when there are people who will speak to them like that.

Like I said, there are plenty of people on here who have been genuinely curious and are even asking tough questions and nobody is getting angry with them. Ask yourself why? Do you think some of you just get a free pass or do you think there is something fundamentally different about how you approach the subject?

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
a reply to: kaylaluv
Besides, I would have figured a gender-neutral pronoun to be more appropriate.

"It" is not a pronoun at all. It is labeling a human as a non-human. Pronouns aren't that difficult. You call the person what they want to be called. It's easy.

You talk about the English language a lot for somebody being so confused about pronouns.

a reply to: kaylaluv
If only we could ask Dr. King which he would detest more - being called 'it' or the 'n-word.'

Cuervo: You posted a lengthy, emotional, self-righteous rant about the 'it-word,' but I am dragging it out. Right.

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
a reply to: kaylaluv
If only we could ask Dr. King which he would detest more - being called 'it' or the 'n-word.'

Cuervo: You posted a lengthy, emotional, self-righteous rant about the 'it-word,' but I am dragging it out. Right.

I wasn't dragging it out. I was introducing it to the thread. And I was right.

You were dragging it out. And you were wrong.

You are still dragging it out.

a reply to: Cuervo
Look, if you perceive sincere inquest and statement of facts as 'veiled derogatory comments,' why keep on in this thread? You're only going to be offended over and over, and continue to derail.

'Plenty of people asking tough questions!?' You three have driven off everyone. Good work. You've all but shut down discussion on this topic.

ETA: So you're mad because queenofswords asked you to leave, and it's tantrum time? Is that it?

Back to school, fool. There are pronouns, and personal pronouns.

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
a reply to: Cuervo
Look, if you perceive sincere inquest and statement of facts as 'veiled derogatory comments,' why keep on in this thread? You're only going to be offended over and over, and continue to derail.

'Plenty of people asking tough questions!?' You three have driven off everyone. Good work. You've all but shut down discussion on this topic.

The thread is about 12 year-olds taking a blocker to postpone puberty until they can make an adult decision. If they did so, they would not "look trans" and would be able to avoid any and all hurtful discussion aimed at people like them. If they don't, they run the risk of always being labeled and ridiculed.

Derogatory and diminutive language aimed towards gender dysphoria and transgender folks has everything to do with a decision of making a person's transition go as smoothly as possible or to delay it and expose them to potential violence and hate.

Can't you see the important connection?

a reply to: Cuervo

Wrong. The thread is about just what it said in the OP. "What is going on? This is not a rhetorical question"......THAT is what the thread is about on the deeper level. THAT is what some of us tried to discuss before you and others turned it into the whiny pissy-a**ed vitriolic hatred we have to listen to all the time.

You want (and did) turn it into an argument about ridicule, bigotry, language, the personal spit and spat...the "you-just-hate-people-that-are-different argument".

a reply to: Cuervo
I can see where you just strung a few dozen words together.

Again, no one has said anything in this thread that is derogatory, diminutive, or hateful towards transgendered people. Oh, except for a pronoun.

The past few pages have consisted of you and a few others trying to shout down anyone who dares so much as question the opinions you apparently share.

If you're ready, we can go back to the topic.

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: Cuervo

Please, get off this thread so it can continue in the manner it was intended to go.

And what manner would that be? The one where you and your ilk spew intolerance and dehumanize people? Because that's what you wanted and now..... you are just mad because it didn't go the way you wanted it to.

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
a reply to: Cuervo
I can see where you just strung a few dozen words together.

Again, no one has said anything in this thread that is derogatory, diminutive, or hateful towards transgendered people. Oh, except for a pronoun.

The past few pages have consisted of you and a few others trying to shout down anyone who dares so much as question the opinions you apparently share.

If you're ready, we can go back to the topic.

Wrong.

Jadestar made a list of the insults thrown at her throughout the thread.

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: Cuervo

Wrong. The thread is about just what it said in the OP. "What is going on? This is not a rhetorical question"......THAT is what the thread is about on the deeper level. THAT is what some of us tried to discuss before you and others turned it into the whiny pissy-a**ed vitriolic hatred we have to listen to all the time.

You want (and did) turn it into an argument about ridicule, bigotry, language, the personal spit and spat...the "you-just-hate-people-that-are-different argument".

I never said that and you know it. In fact, my first few posts in this thread advised caution and agreed that it is something that needs serious thought before jumping into.

But one important factor as to whether or not a child should do this is the amount of hate and ridicule he or she will be subjected to. Until this thread, I actually didn't think the odds were so bad and might be worth waiting. It's some of the people on this thread that changed my mind. Now, somebody would have to give me a pretty convincing argument for me not to encourage blockers.

If the dehumanizing things I hear about me sting as an adult, I wouldn't even consider letting a child go through that.

a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

Blacks WERE referred to as "its" by many in the past. You see, the idea was to dehumanize them - it made it easier to abuse them. Ask a black person today if he would like to be referred to as an it. Go on, I dare you.

a reply to: daryllyn
Yeah, we 'ilk' want to release our inner bigots. But we can't do that with you here, so go.

Let's see that list first. Complete with quotes.

a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

A quote from JadeStar, top of page 28:

Just keeping score, in this thread....

I've had people insinuate that my parents didn't love me.
I've had people tell me that they were crazy.
I've had people tell me that I am crazy.
I've had people question my upbringing.
I've had people question my father's manhood.
I've had people insinuate that my parents should have gone to jail.
I've had people discount how I felt or tell me I couldn't possibly have felt how I did.
I've had people trivialize suicidal depression.
I've had people tell me that my family didn't love me.
I've had people attempt to defeminize me.
I've had people attempt to dehumanize me.
I've had people tell me I couldn't possibly been cognizant of my gender at age 13.
I've had people insinuate that my parents were druggies.
I've had people insinuate that my parents were pedofiles.

Wow.. just wow.

Before anyone judges me on my reactions please know that emotionally I've held a lot inside while reading this stuff so as to make my responses polite, focused and without vitriol or name calling because that kind of stuff does no one any good.