Children as young as 12 are receiving drugs to prepare them for sex change!

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Cuervo

originally posted by: JadeStar
Before anyone judges me on my reactions please know that emotionally I've held a lot inside while reading this stuff so as to make my responses polite, focused and without vitriol or name calling because that kind of stuff does no one any good.

You've done a great job containing yourself. These TG threads have been a bit of a test for me. It's like practice for facing in-person bigotry, stupidity, ignorance, and hate.

Thank you for sharing that. As most of us agree, this is a difficult subject. I am not even sure that if I hadn't been born this way I'd have fully understood the intricacies and the highly personal nature of this issue so I try to keep that in mind when responding. I try to see it through the eyes of someone for whom this is WAY out of their personal experience.

Either that or I'm a closet masochist and this is a guilty pleasure. People have no idea how harmful so many of the posts on these threads are. I know there are lurker members reading this thread through tears.

I'd ask anyone who is reading this thread through tears to please send me a U2U so I can give you a much needed hug.

I think what is strange about the whole transgender topic on ATS is it illustrates the old "familiarity breeds contempt" logic. A few months back (apparently before this whole "tg tipping point" that I wasn't even aware of), I wrote a thread basically honoring ATS with my personal situation dealing with gender dysphoria. It was difficult but I figured I owed it to ATS and it was good practice for "coming out" to people I've been hiding it from.

The response in that thread was fully supportive and the only ignorance in it was innocent ignorance (mostly) and not necessarily willful ignorance and almost zero hate. I was so elated by the response and was really encouraged about the classiness of ATS in general.

Since then, there have been two other threads by transgender folks and, WHAM, suddenly everybody thinks that there's an agenda and it's just "too much getting crammed down mah throat, dammit".

It's strange because I know that most of the members didn't initially have any issues and were genuinely curious, wanting to learn about it. Because that's what ATS has normally been about.

I don't know why but it's as if ATS changed drastically in the last three months.

a reply to: The angel of light

There is not enough experimental data right now to even measure what are going to be the consequences in the long run for this poor people that instead to be professionally treated for a mental disorder,

You dare to criticize for lack of expertise, then merrily skip right along attempting to diagnose? Really? Do you not see the issue here?

No, there isn't a lot of data about the very long term effects of this. However, had you bothered to read the literature that's out there, there is no evidence, as yet, that any long term effects of hormone blockers will manifest themselves. It's not your place, or mine, to decide what's best. It's up to the parents, with help from their doctors, to decide.

a reply to: queenofswords

There is currently a push to move pedophilia from a criminal offense to a sexual preference by a group that also thinks children are capable of 'knowing' what they want, need, and should have.

I really hope you are not equating transgender issues with pedophilia. You couldn't be farther off the mark if you tried.

What does this have to do the the issue being discussed?

a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

This argument is fail. Calling people being critical of bigots bigoted in return is just a deflection attempt to get people to ignore that the original person was being bigoted. Even if you had a point, it STILL doesn't excuse the bigotry spouted by the original person, which frankly, is a more important issue than shaming the bigot himself. By a LARGE margin at that.

This is the equivalent of punishing someone who fought back against an unprovoked attacker while ignoring the attacker's crimes.

a reply to: Cuervo

That's because the right wing media's hate train hadn't gotten on board yet to tell the conservatives of ATS what to think and say about transgenders, so they didn't have much of an opinion yet. They were still worried about the "gay agenda" (another phrase coined by the right wing media's hate train) at the time.

I'm not even trying to be partisan here, but all these hateful things said about transgenders are all phrases literally invented by the right wing media.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: queenofswords

There is currently a push to move pedophilia from a criminal offense to a sexual preference by a group that also thinks children are capable of 'knowing' what they want, need, and should have.

I really hope you are not equating transgender issues with pedophilia. You couldn't be farther off the mark if you tried.

What does this have to do the the issue being discussed?

It's the slippery slope fallacy.

"First the blacks were able to marry whites!"

"Now the gays are able to marry each other!"

"Now the trannies want more rights!"

"Next the pedophiles will be decriminalized!"

a reply to: seagull

I really hope you are not equating transgender issues with pedophilia. You couldn't be farther off the mark if you tried.

What does this have to do the the issue being discussed?

Absolutely nothing.

It was some sort of attempt, a very poor attempt at that, to spew intolerance under the guise of "but what about the children!!! won't someone think about the children!!!"

It shows me a lot about the character of the person behind the screen.

a reply to: daryllyn

"think of the children."

How often do we say this? Using it as a reason to do things that are, by themselves, horrible?

That must be the "leftist mod" in me... If they only knew.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Yes it is.

...and a false one at that. But some, and fortunately it's an ever shrinking minority, will never realize that.

a reply to: Cuervo

There is, unfortunately, more than a small grain of truth to that.

ATS, much as we'd love to deny it, is a microcosm of society. Warts and all.

That's why this issue needs discussing. Here, and elsewhere. As the larger world effects ATS, it's to be hoped that in some small way, ATS will effect, positively, the world.

These stories are important. Important beyond the words typed onto a screen. They can shed light into areas that might otherwise be ignored.

So you, and others, just keep on bringing out your stories, your experiences. ...and I'll keep listening. ...and so, too, will others.

a reply to: daryllyn

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

"Next the pedophiles will be decriminalized!"

Except they are the only ones with a victim.

I don't post a lot on ATS, especially in the rant forum, but I felt like coming forward and congratulating JadeStar and TrappedPrincess on their honesty and patience, especially in light of many of the ignorant and unsubstantiated opinions proffered in this thread. There seems to be many people lacking education on transgender issues, and hopefully this thread may illuminate some of those ignorant opinions.

I'm happy to see some posters here who may not understand the issues transgender people may have, at least making an effort to engage in open dialogue, which hopefully may lead to greater understanding.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun
What can I say? Guess this thread needed a realist more than another (wide) open mind.

I don't recall accusing anyone specifically of being a Progressive, other than boymonkey. I've read enough of his posts to be reasonably sure he deserves the label, and I imagine he wears it proudly.

That's not to say he's the only one in the thread.

To answer your question, you're neither. The way you decribe yourself sounds like a blue dog Democrat of years past - liberal on social issues but conservative where it matters. Since everything has shifted to the left, you might find yourself voting Republican before long.

a reply to: Krazysh0t
Except...
I haven't seen any bigotry directed at anyone in this thread. Other than those of us who are deemed not supportive enough, or too inquisitive.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Cuervo

That's because the right wing media's hate train hadn't gotten on board yet to tell the conservatives of ATS what to think and say about transgenders, so they didn't have much of an opinion yet. They were still worried about the "gay agenda" (another phrase coined by the right wing media's hate train) at the time.

I'm not even trying to be partisan here, but all these hateful things said about transgenders are all phrases literally invented by the right wing media.

That's the explanation I was afraid of. Not afraid of hearing it but afraid of it being true.

There is phrasing and logic that I will never hear from people on here until it's coined on the MSM and then, suddenly, I'll hear it everywhere.

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
a reply to: Krazysh0t
Except...
I haven't seen any bigotry directed at anyone in this thread. Other than those of us who are deemed not supportive enough, or too inquisitive.

That is exactly right. We have had some on this thread that are hyper argumentative about demanding everyone just accept this condition, don't question it, don't be concerned about any additional medical, chemical, or psychological research to look into the etiology. Don't worry about the 200 fold increase in children presenting transgender feeling. They have absolutely no interest in further studies to examine the possibilities that something is wrong here.

It is not that the individual transgenders are not loved and accepted as people. It's that some of us do not accept the push to make us believe there is nothing wrong....nothing to see here---just move along.

It boggles the mind that there are actually people that think it is perfectly normal for a male to think it is a female and female to think it is a male, then put them through hormonal therapies that have to last a lifetime, rob them of their reproductive ability, and then go through the physical process of body mutilation (yes...I use that word because that is what it is.)

I'm truly baffled at the vitriol spewed at those who simply wonder what is happening and who understand on a rational level that something is amiss here. Something is wrong and in this day and age of medical miracles, let's put some money into the research regarding the underlying cause. No prejudice. No bigotry. No hate.

My parents were fairly healthy people, they both exercised regularly. My dad was in the Navy and remains very fit today.

What did your dad do for the Navy?

originally posted by: queenofswords
It boggles the mind that there are actually people that think it is perfectly normal for a male to think it is a female and female to think it is a male, then put them through hormonal therapies that have to last a lifetime, rob them of their reproductive ability, and then go through the physical process of body mutilation (yes...I use that word because that is what it is.)

Wow. How can you not see that as offensive?! "IT"?! "IT"!!!

Jesus, this place just gets more and more ignorant. And then you claim YOU are the victim. You are like the kid who hits another kid and then goes in the corner and cries as soon as people get mad at him for it.

I'm sorry but this must be my limit. I've remained cool as a cucumber with most of you but when you are the one who CLEARLY can't relate yet tell other people who can that they must be mistaken then, yeah, I can't put up with it anymore. Yeah, that must be it. It couldn't possibly be the person who has ZERO perspective on the issue who needs to learn more, can it? You aren't even willing to listen, you just keep saying the same garbage over and over and over, tearing down the dignity of anybody who might suffer from it and then, again, go crying when somebody calls you out for it.

Well I'm sorry you are offended for being called out for being offensive. Excuse the hell out of me. FFS.

a reply to: queenofswords

Worked with secret radioactive goo which obviously caused Jade to be Jade...

What kind of question is that?.