Current/former "preachers" of any faith: what is/was your training?

a reply to: LittleByLittle

If you or your group have astral projected? What kind of physical manifestation in the body different tools/behaviors/ritual give you?

I think I didn't answer this thoroughly.
No, no group I was in 'astral projected'. But I was predominantly a solo practitioner. I attended a few healing rituals, and took classes both locally with a "priestess" and also via distance learning with an expert (separate people unknown to one another). The only rituals in which I participated were to build up and send out healing energy as a group.

As for myself, I think dreaming itself is 'astral projecting', and I love sleep very much. My dreams are a big part of my life experience. I rarely wake and don't remember what I was dreaming about.

The physical manifestation is in the body, yes, when people for example conduct a full-moon ritual together.....we touch hands, and concentrate on absorbing and building the energy we feel from the rising moon...and it's like electricity. And we focus on sharing the electricity with our fellows. Also, in the healing touch that I've practiced with loved ones, such as touching them with your 'absorbing' hand, and then grounding out the absorbed negative energy through the 'transmitting' hand (by releasing the absorbed negative energy into the ground), and the protective "spells" that I've "cast" for people I cared about who asked for help - I've had good experiences.

People feel the same way in churches when incense is burned, or choirs sing, or light through the stained-glass windows come in. Whatever touches the soul, and raises awareness of the 'ethereal'....it feels the same for all people who have spiritual experiences.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: grandmakdw

Churches that are not affiliated with denominations often have ministers with no training at all. Sometimes Bible College, sometimes no college degree at all. A very few denominations do not have formally trained ministers; Mormon, sometimes Church of Christ, some Baptist. If a church is not affiliated with a denomination then you have to check with the minister. Some even didn't finish high school. This is unfortunate but only the established denominations require a Masters Degree and normally a year or two of on the job training. Non-affiliated churches can have someone who just announces one day, "i"m a preacher". That is normally where the loonies come from, the "pastors" who preach unlovely and unloving things.

This is one area I'll agree with you on. I wasn't a pastor, but I did preach and teach. I was fortunate enough as an elder to have a very sharp pastor(degreed) who scrutinized every word that came from the pulpit, and shared pointers and advice with me. I remember thinking back then, with some of the mistakes I made, that I wasn't ready in the beginning, and I probably shouldn't have been allowed to preach to a congregation til I was. Fortunately, I didn't make any big mistakes, and I was well studied by that time. But I think some formal schooling wouldn't have hurt by any means.

Through my long life and visiting many churches, I have yet to hear a preacher not preach by rote, as well as Catholic leaders having any real knowledge about the lives their congregations lead. Well, at least they have a psychology degree and/or marriage counselling training, which makes them appear to know what they are doing.

a reply to: InTheLight

Well, at least they have a psychology degree and/or marriage counselling training, which makes them appear to know what they are doing.

Who have those degrees? The priests and preachers? Where did they get that training?

I'm really glad you're here, InTheLight. So - do you trust that religious leaders know what they are talking about (or doing) when they use psychology and/or marriage counseling training?

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: InTheLight

Well, at least they have a psychology degree and/or marriage counselling training, which makes them appear to know what they are doing.

Who have those degrees? The priests and preachers? Where did they get that training?

I'm really glad you're here, InTheLight. So - do you trust that religious leaders know what they are talking about (or doing) when they use psychology and/or marriage counseling training?

Yes, one of the posters here mentioned this in this thread; psychology major and marriage counselling.

How can one advise others on that which one has no real life experience (referring to Catholic leaders)? And, as for psychology, more often than not, it reveals itself as a trial and error, 'hit and miss' science, so, again, religious leaders would be preaching rote here too.

a reply to: InTheLight

How can one advise others on that which one has no real life experience (referring to Catholic leaders)?

I have that same concern! How can someone who has never been married counsel couples who intend to be (or are already) married? Or someone who has never been divorced counsel people amidst a divorce? How can they advise on parenting issues if they've never parented?
If they have no real-life experience, they really don't "know", in my opinion. But you couple real-life experience with learning/study and open-minded willingness to learn more, and you get people who are capable.

Do you agree with that?
That experience - direct experience - AND knowledge acquired from that experience AND combined with training in psychology/parenting, etc is valuable?

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: InTheLight

How can one advise others on that which one has no real life experience (referring to Catholic leaders)?

I have that same concern! How can someone who has never been married counsel couples who intend to be (or are already) married? Or someone who has never been divorced counsel people amidst a divorce? How can they advise on parenting issues if they've never parented?
If they have no real-life experience, they really don't "know", in my opinion. But you couple real-life experience with learning/study and open-minded willingness to learn more, and you get people who are capable.

Do you agree with that?
That experience - direct experience - AND knowledge acquired from that experience AND combined with training in psychology/parenting, etc is valuable?

Of course, I agree with that, there can be no real understanding and insight. But, there seems to also be a lack of cohesion and agreement in regards to religious leaders' understanding of original foundations, scripture, reality, and interpretation. (The linked paper below discusses this concept in more detail). And what of the new gospels found recently? Also, were all the gospels in the Bible written by the apostles?

www.ijfm.org...

I also pose the question as to why are the gospels of Thomas and Mary not included in the Bible, when there is much debate on who wrote and when the Bible's existing gospels were actually written.

Though there is still some debate on the dates of when the gospels were written, they were most assuredly completed before the close of the first century and written by eyewitnesses or under the direction of eyewitnesses.

carm.org...

So, you see, BuzzyWigs, for me it is not so much important as to what would be these religious leaders' book learning, but rather their life experiences, critical thinking, reasoning, and to invite and argue intellectual/theological challenges for greater understanding and exploration by all, and by using all these tools, then I believe that these rare people can preach from the pulpit in a more meaningful way.

a reply to: InTheLight

I also pose the question as to why are the gospels of Thomas and Mary not included in the Bible, when there is much debate on who wrote and when the Bible's existing gospels were actually written.

Excellent question. Thanks again. Why is the Bible not updated as new info comes to light?

a reply to: InTheLight

So, you see, BuzzyWigs, for me it is not so much important as to what would be these religious leaders' book learning, but rather their life experiences, critical thinking, reasoning, and to invite and argue intellectual/theological challenges for greater understanding and exploration by all, and by using all these tools, then I believe that these rare people can preach from the pulpit in a more meaningful way.

Totally.
Thank you.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: grandmakdw

Churches that are not affiliated with denominations often have ministers with no training at all. Sometimes Bible College, sometimes no college degree at all. A very few denominations do not have formally trained ministers; Mormon, sometimes Church of Christ, some Baptist. If a church is not affiliated with a denomination then you have to check with the minister. Some even didn't finish high school. This is unfortunate but only the established denominations require a Masters Degree and normally a year or two of on the job training. Non-affiliated churches can have someone who just announces one day, "i"m a preacher". That is normally where the loonies come from, the "pastors" who preach unlovely and unloving things.

BINGO!

Exactly right.
Some don't even finish High School. Some get advanced degrees in their field.
I'm trying to learn how to tell them apart.
The ones who are professionally and ethically trained, versus those who just wake up one day and announce they are "a preacher."

What do you think of this phenomenon? Is it "okay"? Or is it not?

If a church is with a recognized denomination, aside from Mormon, some Baptist, Church of Christ and Pentacostal, then most likely the pastor is very highly educated.

The people who wake up one day and announce they are preachers, are sometimes wonderful people, but can do great harm with their off the wall theology.

It is not for me to judge, ok or not ok, it is up to the congregation who follow him/her. It is their choice, not mine.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: InTheLight

How can one advise others on that which one has no real life experience (referring to Catholic leaders)?

I have that same concern! How can someone who has never been married counsel couples who intend to be (or are already) married? Or someone who has never been divorced counsel people amidst a divorce? How can they advise on parenting issues if they've never parented?
If they have no real-life experience, they really don't "know", in my opinion. But you couple real-life experience with learning/study and open-minded willingness to learn more, and you get people who are capable.

Do you agree with that?
That experience - direct experience - AND knowledge acquired from that experience AND combined with training in psychology/parenting, etc is valuable?

Do you have to be an abusive parent yourself in order to counsel with abusive parents?

Do you have to be a sex offender to counsel a sex offender?

That is what training in counseling is for, to learn how to counsel without having to experience the dysfunction for yourself.

a reply to: grandmakdw

If a church is with a recognized denomination, aside from Mormon, some Baptist, Church of Christ and Pentacostal, then most likely the pastor is very highly educated.

We would hope so.

The people who wake up one day and announce they are preachers, are sometimes wonderful people, but can do great harm with their off the wall theology.

Quite right. Totally agree with that.

It is not for me to judge, ok or not ok, it is up to the congregation who follow him/her. It is their choice, not mine.

But what if the congregation is not aware of their leader's training (or lack thereof)? What if the congretation just blindly follows that person because the person is 'charismatic'?
And what if that person insists that they need a really expensive private jet? Are those followers being misled? I think so.

a reply to: grandmakdw

That is what training in counseling is for, to learn how to counsel without having to experience the dysfunction for yourself.

Yes, it is what training is for - but I happen to believe that unless someone has actually "lived" it, they aren't truly aware of what is going on. (WHICH IS NOT TO SAY that one must have been an abusive parent to counsel abusive parents - not at all. But a knowledge of best-practice parenting - and having parented - is helpful....). Those who have experienced (and hopefully overcome) the dysfunction are more able to counsel than those who have only "book learning" are able to do.

ETA: Again, thanks for participating here. It really means a lot to me.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: grandmakdw

If a church is with a recognized denomination, aside from Mormon, some Baptist, Church of Christ and Pentacostal, then most likely the pastor is very highly educated.

We would hope so.

The people who wake up one day and announce they are preachers, are sometimes wonderful people, but can do great harm with their off the wall theology.

Quite right. Totally agree with that.

It is not for me to judge, ok or not ok, it is up to the congregation who follow him/her. It is their choice, not mine.

But what if the congregation is not aware of their leader's training (or lack thereof)? What if the congretation just blindly follows that person because the person is 'charismatic'?
And what if that person insists that they need a really expensive private jet? Are those followers being misled? I think so.

Congregations normally hire their own pastors and will find that out in the hiring process. If they hire someone without education, that is their right, but they shouldn't be surprised by the end result if it is bad.

If someone just decides to start a church with themselves as pastor, I'd be really leery. People who blindly follow anyone are just plain stupid. I was going to try an say it nicely, but they are stupid to follow someone blindly they know nothing about. Any preacher who "needs" a private jet, is a phony who is in it for the money, in my opinion, and the people who follow them are choosing to turn a blind eye. Adults are adults and if they choose to follow a schister, well that is their right, I just call them plain stupid.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Okay then! See? We agree on that!

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: grandmakdw

That is what training in counseling is for, to learn how to counsel without having to experience the dysfunction for yourself.

Yes, it is what training is for - but I happen to believe that unless someone has actually "lived" it, they aren't truly aware of what is going on. Those who have experienced (and hopefully overcome) the dysfunction are more able to counsel than those who have only "book learning" are able to do.

ETA: Again, thanks for participating here. It really means a lot to me.

I disagree that a counselor has to have experienced the dysfunction in order to counsel.
Would you want a schizophrenic counselor for a schizophrenic? I don't think so.

The training that licensed counselors go through is to prepare them for counseling in situations they have not experienced.

If you have had bad experiences with counselors, well, there are counselors who are not suited personality wise to be counselors, so change counselors.

The best are people who specialize in one particular problem area, they learn as much if not more from counseling the same problem over and over and seeing what gets the best results for most people and do a great job of passing it on.

While people who have been through the same problem have good insight, sometimes someone who knows a great deal about different ways to cope with the same situation and who can be more detached emotionally from the problem can be as good as or better counselors.

For psychological issues, by the way, a pastor is NOT the best source of counseling.

A good pastor will know his/her limits and refer to someone better trained.

For mild life issues that we all face from time to time a pastor can be a good source.

However, most pastors are not trained for more than the mild life issues we all face.

My husband is an exception, not the rule, his extra masters in marriage and family therapy is quite unusual for a minister.

Most seminaries these days offer a class or two on counseling for the milder life issues.

Issues a pastor is good for: grief, religious uncertainty and searching, non-abuse marital problems, mild depression, something you just need to talk out with someone

Issues a pastor is the wrong person to go to for: abusive situations, drugs, alcohol, psychiatric issues, severe depression, PTSD, sexual problems, severe child rearing issues

a reply to: grandmakdw

The training that licensed counselors go through is to prepare them for counseling in situations they have not experienced.

If you have had bad experiences with counselors, well, there are counselors who are not suited personality wise to be counselors, so change counselors.

I am trained as a professional counselor.....I got the education....I also had life experience with many different aspects of the subject matter that is presented in a counselor/client relationship.
I have known many other counselors, both as colleagues and as helpers (Yes, I've been in therapy myself). YES - education makes a huge difference. So does life experience.

Issues a pastor is good for: grief, religious uncertainty and searching, non-abuse marital problems, mild depression, something you just need to talk out with someone

Issues a pastor is the wrong person to go to for: abusive situations, drugs, alcohol, psychiatric issues, severe depression, PTSD, sexual problems, severe child rearing issues

Exactly.
I have the training to counsel people in those issues. I have experience in nearly all of them. And to boot, I have raised two children and worked with other people's children for decades....I know what child abuse is. I know how to educate parents about avoiding it.

I hope that at some level, deep down, you are beginning to appreciate my depth of understanding of this stuff, and my purpose.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Klassified

I was fortunate enough as an elder to have a very sharp pastor(degreed) who scrutinized every word that came from the pulpit, and shared pointers and advice with me. I remember thinking back then, with some of the mistakes I made, that I wasn't ready in the beginning, and I probably shouldn't have been allowed to preach to a congregation til I was. Fortunately, I didn't make any big mistakes, and I was well studied by that time. But I think some formal schooling wouldn't have hurt by any means.

Thanks so much for contributing, Klassified. I'd hoped you would.
So, do you mind if I ask where your adviser was schooled? Did he talk about religious training?? I'm quite happy to hear that he was helping you out.

If memory serves, she had a masters, and a bachelors. Both from an accredited school somewhere around St. Louis where I grew up. Sorry so scant, but that's been a very long time ago. At the time, she was the only female pastor I knew in a non-denominational church. Women in that position were/are rare. Loved her. She was a very intelligent lady, with a big heart.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Thanks for the answer. I am comparing experiences. I am a low level energy conduit myself and play around with the body bliss and sometimes try to push a little energy amount into another (limited reiki ability).

I hope you are able to handle the empath ability and that you are not overwhelmed by it. .

All spirits have in the end the same potential. The question is only how fast or slow we will grow. On day I will try the empath ability. Will be very nice ability to have if you have a soul mate around. 2 parts one whole.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

I hope you are able to handle the empath ability and that you are not overwhelmed by it. .

It can, in fact, be overwhelming. Being able to "feel" what others are feeling, and knowing when they are sincere or just faking it is not always comfortable.

My husband tells me "I take these things too seriously" when I sense something about someone else....
but I can't help it.

I try to tell myself I'm overanalyzing, or projecting....and maybe I am simply insane. I don't know.

But the energy conduit thing - I have always been able to do that.
I just didn't know what it was until I was an adult.

New Age "woo", you know. We get ridiculed.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

New Age "woo", you know. We get ridiculed.

That is unfortunately not unusual on this level.

Samsara might not be the perfect way to describe this place. But it is the in between. Neither fully divine nor fully demonic. Neither higher leveled realm nor lower leveled realm.

Only one room in the creation.