Losing my Religion

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: undo

Well it's an interesting thought.

All I know for sure is I wish I had a time machine or way to sit back and observe the whole of humanity, from start to finish. Having that ability would be a heavy burden though, as insightful as it might be.

well this ties into the prior verses that state that abraham told pharaoh that sarah was his sister, and not his wife, out of fear that pharaoh would kill him and take his wife as war booty or something. so sarah spent some time in pharaoh's harem. later, pharaoh learns that sarah is actually abe's wife when a series of calamaties befalls egypt, and returns her to him, with a speech about how he should've told him sarah was his wife. i'm beginning to think that visit at abe's tent was to inform him that his family was going to become part of the pharaonic lineage, and this would be the result of sarah being artificially inseminated. in effect, evidence of high tech (would also explain how sodom and gomorrah were bombed into oblivion)

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: undo

Well it's an interesting thought.

All I know for sure is I wish I had a time machine or way to sit back and observe the whole of humanity, from start to finish. Having that ability would be a heavy burden though, as insightful as it might be.

I have wished that so many times. No one would ever believe you, of course, but I'd be happy just knowing the truth of it all. It would be a life changing experience.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

good point. i'm having trouble articulating how i think this could be relevant, as it just sounds like i'm saying atheists are always going to be evil if they are in power. which of course, is not true, but where the problem seems to be is when it's combined with a totalitarian form of government like communism or fascism.

Wait, did we just established that Hitler was not an atheist, but this might be partially move in good direction.

Where Fascism has nothing against religion, but more against organization, it is very similar in this sense to Communism. Russian communist, due to Marx view of religion as business model, witch religion of west clearly is, took the same methods against church as it did against any capitalistic organizations or elite. What is more interesting, churches actually got better and rebuilt under Stalin, while most of destruction happened under Lenin. There is lots of documentation about this period.

a reply to: SuperFrog

yeah that was near the end of his reign of terror. he started buddying up to rome, apparently. now, i dunno, but based on my papacy theory, they were buddies all along lol

i could be totally wrong about this, but it just makes so much sense.

has anyone seen that picture of stalin as a young man and hitler as a young man, where they are separately photographed with their class mates and both of them are top row, center? it's kinda creepy, like the whole thing was planned from the time they were young.

or consider this:

hitler after having made a pact with stalin that they wouldn't invade each other, suddenly decides to break his pact with stalin and begins marching to moscow, slaughtering the people in the little jewish villages along the way. stalin, supposedly shocked to the point of inability to act, let's this continue until hitler's army is almost to moscow. then stalin finally responds by sending in russian troops. we are told hitler's forces were stopped there because they couldn't overcome the snow and cold. these were troops trained in the mountains of germany. where it snows and gets cold. i don't think stalin was shocked into inaction at all, i think they had an agreement, and true to form and to the shock of the jewish people in russia, stalin let hitler's troops genocide their way up to moscow.

after this, stalin himself began killing jews out right, in particular doctors and scientists.

a reply to: undo

I'm not certain those people actually existed, and that the story isn't about God's love (on one hand) and his wrath (on the other). I did just do a brief search on the net to see if they had discovered Sodom and Gomorrah yet. Nothing definitive, but some interesting and possibly promising candidates. As you know, I'm weary of jumping to a high tech conclusion for how they were destroyed. There are some interesting thoughts on how it may have happened naturally. I don't know how much merit the theory has or not, but my favorite one is meteor air burst.

Like I said, my net search was very brief:

en.wikipedia.org...

One of the sites they say could be Sodom is called Tell el Hammeh. While the link above mentions it as a candidate for Sodom, its own wiki page says nothing of the sort.

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: undo
or consider this:

hitler after having made a pact with stalin that they wouldn't invade each other, suddenly decides to break his pact with stalin and begins marching to moscow, slaughtering the people in the little jewish villages along the way. stalin, supposedly shocked to the point of inability to act, let's this continue until hitler's army is almost to moscow. then stalin finally responds by sending in russian troops. we are told hitler's forces were stopped there because they couldn't overcome the snow and cold. these were troops trained in the mountains of germany. where it snows and gets cold. i don't think stalin was shocked into inaction at all, i think they had an agreement, and true to form and to the shock of the jewish people in russia, stalin let hitler's troops genocide their way up to moscow.

after this, stalin himself began killing jews out right, in particular doctors and scientists.

???????????????????????????????????????????????????

Sorry, epic history fail there. No. The Russian Front was nothing like the travesty you have just posted up.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

well i have this theory that the opening chapters of genesis are not actually talking about the creation of the earth for the first time, but a re-creation after a cataclysm, and it is this cataclysm mentioned in verse 2 of genesis 1, that is also mixed in amongst the black sea flood verses (the noah verses), as if the writers didn't know these were separate stories. in effect, there are 2 flood accounts in noah's flood account: the not global black sea flood, which would require only evacuating 32 animals from the royal barnyard, and a much worse, earlier global cataclysm, perhaps the one that kick started the ice age.

the verses are then not saying this is the first time the adam are created, but a re-creation of the adam by copying of the dna of prior cataclysm survivors, known in the text as elohim (a plural word). so when the flood verses talk about the repopulating of the earth after the "flood", they are really talking about the repopulating of the earth after the cataclysm mentioned in verse 2.

if such is the case, those prior people would've likely had some type of advanced tech and then they just kept it secret from their newly copied adam. this info would've been hoarded in mystery schools and passed down, generation to generation, and the texts the general public are allowed to read, just give us little hints here and there.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

well i admit i piece mealed that together from info released since stalin's files have been opened to the public.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

well i admit i piece mealed that together from info released since stalin's files have been opened to the public.

Your facts are just all wrong though. The Einsatzgruppen exterminated Jews from the get go in towns, cities and villages all over the place. Yes, Stalin was shocked initially - but after the first few days it wore off and he directed the fighting personally. That was the problem, he was a terrible general who initially liked to appoint flunkies. The Russian troops were in trouble right from the start. Once Stalin realised that he needed to listen to better generals like Zhukov, then the tide started to turn. By the way, about the snow and cold - the Germans were NOT equipped for it. Their supply lines were snarled up and much of the warmer clothing was stuck back around Smolensk and Warsaw (the Russian railways had a wider gauge than the Germans, forcing widespread track replacement. That takes time.) plus the Germans were now being commanded by an idiot called Adolf Hitler who started to refuse to listen to his own generals from this point onwards.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

woo, info! i plug into your info please. so it's true they were slaughtering jews as they moved toward moscow?

wakeupbeer

addendum to my prior post

genesis 1 : 2 doesn't say "and the earth was without form and void", it actually says, "and the earth BECAME formless and void". the word there is mistranslated to "was" when the original etymology of it is "become" . the past tense of "become" is "became," not "was."

simple mistake? deliberate? inquiring minds are not sure they want to know.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

woo, info! i plug into your info please. so it's true they were slaughtering jews as they moved toward moscow?

Yes. The Einsatzgruppen were relentless - around two million or so people were murdered by them during the advance and occupation, of whom just over a million were Jewish. The open shootings were eventually changed to gassings.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

woo, info! i plug into your info please. so it's true they were slaughtering jews as they moved toward moscow?

Yes. The Einsatzgruppen were relentless - around two million or so people were murdered by them during the advance and occupation, of whom just over a million were Jewish. The open shootings were eventually changed to gassings.

is it also true that stalin started killing jewish doctors and scientists after that, as well? something about his doctor being jewish and him becoming suspicious of doctors and therefore jewish people? man, why is it world leaders are always a few cans short of a six pack

ah yes, here it is:

the doctor's plot
en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: undo

good point. i'm having trouble articulating how i think this could be relevant, as it just sounds like i'm saying atheists are always going to be evil if they are in power. which of course, is not true, but where the problem seems to be is when it's combined with a totalitarian form of government like communism or fascism.

No, actually, that's not where the "problem" is. We've already explained this to you probably 20 times but you're mentality isn't capable of thinking in a way which doesn't conform to your ridiculous beliefs.

Atheism is atheism, Totalitarianism, communism or fascism, is completely and entirely separate. Combining Atheism with anything doesn't give you some terrible new thing, because Atheism isn't a damn belief system? Do you have some kind of medical problem which prevents you from cognitive abilities? How many times do we have to show this to you?

a reply to: Ghost147

read the previous page

Just to further educate you on the concept of Atheism. Here's a bunch of quotes that you should read. Just to show that everyone in this topic isn't conspiring against you. I guess the whole world is.

originally posted by: atheism.about.com...[/post]

Atheism is Not a Religion, Ideology, Belief System, Philosophy
Many Christians seem to believe that atheism is a religion, but no one with an accurate understanding of both concepts would make such a mistake. Atheism lacks every one of the characteristics of religion. At most, atheism doesn’t explicitly exclude most of them, but the same can be said for almost anything. Thus, it’s not possible to call atheism a religion. It can be part of a religion, but it can’t be a religion by itself. They are completely different categories: atheism is the absence of one particular belief while religion is a complex web of traditions and beliefs.

originally posted by: rationalwiki.org...[/post]

Atheism is the absence of belief in the existence of gods. The word stems from the Greek a- meaning "without", and theos meaning "god". Theos includes the Abrahamic YHWH(s), Zeus, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and every other deity from A to Z[2] (and 0-9, !, ", #, $ or any other character, obviously). For the definition of atheism, the terms "God" and "a god" are used interchangeably as there is no difference between a monotheistic deity and a polytheistic pantheon of deities when it comes to complete disbelief in them. This also has the deliberate intent of ignoring the privileged position Yahweh has held in English grammar. Most atheists also do not believe in anything supernatural or paranormal.

originally posted by: blogs.wsj.com... xist-ricky-gervais-takes-your-questions/[/post]

Atheism isn’t a belief system. I have a belief system but it’s not “based on” atheism, it’s just not based on the existence of a god. I make none of my moral, social, or artistic decisions based on any god or superstitions. Saying atheism is a belief system is like saying not going skiing is a hobby.

This one is actually one from a comment within Richard Dawkins' website. He describes it well.

originally posted by: richarddawkins.net... s-fallacy-hitler-stalin-pol-pot/[/post]

It is sadly entirely too common for people to automatically assume that atheism is merely an opposite mirror of religion when in reality it is merely the negation of any kind of theological belief and nothing else. No belief system of its own, no doctrines or propitiations, merely a position that there is no reason to belief in any theistic position.

And just because you brought up Hitler, and suggested he was an Atheist... here ya go!

originally posted by: HITLER[/post]

“Besides that, I believe one thing: there is a Lord God! And this Lord God creates the peoples.” [1] ~Adolf Hitler

“We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations; we have stamped it out” [2] ~Adolf Hitler

"Hitler was a Christian. This undeniable fact couldn’t be made any clearer than by his own confessions. Yet, I will not merely present you with these testimonies, as damning as they happen to be on their own, but I also intend on furnishing you with a brief history of the inherent anti-Semitism of the Christian religion. I will do so to demonstrate beyond any reasonable doubt that Hitler and his Christian Nazi Party were acting in complete concordance with traditional Christian anti-Semitism."

So urce

Feel free to educate yourself, for our sanity's sake.

you are gonna be so embarrassed once you read the previous page