Losing my Religion

a reply to: whooknows

Anointed as in the 144,000?

originally posted by: misskat1
a reply to: whooknows

Thats funny, I thought by some of your comments you were a JW. lol

I spent a lot of time dragging my kid from church to church looking for one that lives the Love of God. The last Church I thought was full of love, until they were caught turning the sprinklers on the homeless that had taken refuge on their lawn. Ive never been back.

I don't know where you are. But since I've been DF'd I've found a lot of others and have had the opportunity to talk with those who are like I am. But I have never lost my faith. Somewhere you did lose yours. And I can understand it. Scripture tells us that if it is possible Satan would like to mislead even the chosen ones. And they are the ones with the greatest faith.

I will tell you a story once I heard:

A brother stopped attending meetings. One day an elder decides to visit his home, it's the middle of the winter and snowing and cold. He knocks on the door. No one answers. He opens the door and peaks in, and sees the brother sitting by the fireplace.

He enters and sits. No words are spoken.

Some time passes.

Finally the elder grabs some pincers and grabs a bright coal from the fire and moves it out away from the rest of the burning embers. And it starts to dim. Until it is almost extinguished. Then finally he grabs it and returns it to the center and it starts to glow with a great radiance. And then he looks at the brother again. And he is still looking at the fire, and then tears come to his eyes.

Then the elder gets up and leaves.

Then the next meeting the missing brother is finally returned.

a reply to: misskat1

Yes.

originally posted by: whooknows
Noah and his family, 8 souls were the only that survived the world-wide deluge, they were all worshipers of the true God. They did not have a religion.

So help me understand, how did one family prolong Human race? Do you even understand meaning behind what you just said? Brothers and sisters had sex to get to 7 billion with so many different ethical and racial traits... and even Indigenous Australians?? Interesting... As Dr. Dawkins once said, why would Penguins choose to go to south pole as north one is equally inhospitable and wouldn't they leave trail of move after flood? (and that would be easy question , let's not quote Jim Jefferies what he think about this proposed story )

But back to event of Flood, what kind of God would kill everyone else except one family that was forced into incest... and even genetically we know its just impossible story happened even if you give it more time.

There were near extinction events before humans, but there was one while our ancestors were alive, somewhere around 70,000 years ago and it is believed that our human race was down to about 10,000 individuals... we hardly survived that.

originally posted by: whooknows
Everyone alive on earth today owes their lives to an ancestor that worshiped Jehovah God.

Very false... see above... None of my ancestors ever came close to believe in Jehovah God, but some did believe in Pagan god, according to Vatican... as good excuse for war and slavery...

Sometimes I wonder do you even try to understand what you preach... IMHO no, you have some illusions you know what you are saying and you are just repeating, like parrot... try to think... here is material for though... watch video I posted earlier with Sam Harris and comment me what do you think. Here is link.

originally posted by: Logarock
Deprograming? You mean reprograming? I would say good for you but truth is the very vast majority of religious debunking on ATS is really crap. Most of your anti religious affiliates here especially those that debunk Christianity really have little idea of what they are talking about. Some that seem they do really don't. And then there are those that for other reasons have made the rejection, may know to a fair level what they are talking about, but keep their real reasons for rejecting and debunking out of sight operating behind the flag of empirical evidence la de da ect, ect.

Answer filled with evidence and knowledge.... made out of thin air... It used to be custom on ATS to support your views with some evidence, supportive material, quotes and explanations... but only thing I found here is some rant...

originally posted by: Logarock
If you really think that coming to the knowledge that its all about control and nothing to do with truth then you have only come to a point. Thats the point were most get off the wagon but its really not the end of the road. Sure there are control freaks in religion and its used as a tool. Sure thing. Hijacked....yea. Got to move past that.

Are you suggesting more of the same or even more important, do you even know what you are suggesting??

originally posted by: undo
okay, just for the record, understand that i study this stuff.....alot. not just the bible, but all ancient religions/societies. and boy do i have some stuff to tell you. let's start at the beginning:

Don't remember reading much real archeology from you... but let's hear it...

originally posted by: undo
1. the old testament is not plagiarized sumerian texts. (i'm including this because it's relevant). semites lived in sumer, so it's a shared history.

When you copy text without giving correct source it is called plagiarism. It is actually very simple principle... If is shared history, why rest of text from Sumerian culture are not in Bible??

originally posted by: undo
2. when noah's son ham migrated back to egypt (egypt otherwise known as khem, was named after ham), he took the history of sumer with him. thus the sumerian info is embedded in ancient egyptian texts/religion. moses learned both this version (sumerian-egyptian khemitic) and also the mesopotamian version (sumerian-akkadian-hebrew) brought to egypt later, by his mother, who was his nanny in pharaoh's household. thus the torah (first five books of the bible) is sumerian-akkadian-egyptian, in origin.

Do you even know a thing about Egyptian history and their religion?? Not to even touch that genetics of ancient people do not support your fishy history presentation here... ( en.wikipedia.org... ) Instead of trying to fit facts into pre-made construct, use facts to make construct of history...

originally posted by: undo3. horus was not ripped off from the egyptians by the hebrews, it was continuation of the preflood khemitic, thus preflood noahic, thus preflood sumerian. in effect, jesus is exactly who he said he was.

Yet, there is no evidence for Jesus, Noah, flood, we have evidence of plagiarism of part of Sumerian history, but fun starts when you find similarities between Jesus story and for example Krishna... How do you explain those?

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Ghost147

Great post and analysis, Ghost147. There are indeed tons of people who live kinder lives simply because of what they believe they will receive (reward or punishment) after death.

I guess it comes down to a question of if human-kind would be better off, or worse off, if there were no Religions? There are arguments for both, but unfortunately, the answer can't be quantified into a specific, definitive response.

Late Hitchens once debated if Catholic Church (OK, not all Christianity, but its large part) is force of Good in world. Before debate they asked audience what they think, then once debate was done, they did the same, and boy, did number change. Might be worth a watch on this topic, as it points to some very important questions on this topic...

I dare anyone believer or nonbeliever to watch full debate, as both sides rise very important questions and point to very important facts... It is 2 hours long debate, but well worth it...

a reply to: whooknows

How are you able to reconcile being D'f (disfellowshipped for non x JWs) and being of the 144,000?
And are you telling me you still believe the JW doctrines? If that is the case, I better start praying for you.

a reply to: SuperFrog

You see, this is how one family who loved God prolonged the human race and made it possible for you to be alive today:

(Exodus 34:6, 7) . . .Jehovah was passing before him and declaring: “Jehovah, Jehovah, a God merciful and compassionate, slow to anger and abundant in loyal love and truth, 7 showing loyal love to thousands, pardoning error and transgression and sin, but he will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, bringing punishment for the error of fathers upon sons and upon grandsons, upon the third generation and upon the fourth generation.”


It is because of Jehovah's loyal love. That expression, loyal love, is quite foreign in this world, but one that cannot be separated from Jehovah's nature.

To be loyal means to stick to something until its completion, and love is the sublime act of abnegation towards another.

God's loyal love humbles him before humankind, sinners, looking for those who are faithful, and have faith, and he sticks to them, and to his purpose. If the leave him he will leave them. But not because he wants to:

(2 Peter 3:9) . . .Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.


Jehovah is patient with all. But his spirit roves to and fro over the earth looking for people who are righteous to call them to his glorious sacred secrets. For not all men are inclined toward everlasting life:

(Acts 13:48) . . .When those of the nations heard this, they began to rejoice and to glorify the word of Jehovah, and all those who were rightly disposed for everlasting life became believers.

originally posted by: misskat1
a reply to: whooknows

How are you able to reconcile being D'f (disfellowshipped for non x JWs) and being of the 144,000?
And are you telling me you still believe the JW doctrines? If that is the case, I better start praying for you.

By this scripture:

(2 Peter 3:9) Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.


This was written by Peter to the anointed Christan congregation.

And yes, your prayers would be appreciated.

I have found much persecution from without, and within. But I know where the truth is.


Also remember the parable of the prodigal son. I have not gone that far. But who are sons of God on earth, but his adopted born-again, chosen sons?

What happens if one leaves the flock? Will not the Shepherd leave the 99 to search for the one lost? And will not all the angels in the heavens rejoice at its return?

And what about the father upon seeing his son, who left him for the world return? Will he reject him, even when the son recognizes he is not worthy to be a son?


So what is your prayer?

a reply to: whooknows

You did not answer my question, how did we move from one family to 7 billions today?? What Noah's family members had to do to get population to where is today...

To make all even worst, was that plan of a God for them to do?

Please simple answer, don't need to quote Bible, I've read it, some parts more then once.

a reply to: misskat1

other people will continue to let you down, in or out of religion. heck i'm surprised you haven't let yourself down yet. lol

originally posted by: SuperFrog
a reply to: whooknows

You did not answer my question, how did we move from one family to 7 billions today?? What Noah's family members had to do to get population to where is today...

To make all even worst, was that plan of a God for them to do?

Please simple answer, don't need to quote Bible, I've read it, some parts more then once.

God when he made Adam and Eve, in perfection in the Garden of Eden, he blessed them, and gave them the command to be fruitful and fill the earth:

(Genesis 1:28) . . .Further, God blessed them, and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.”


After the deluge of Noah's day God also blessed Noah and gave him the same command, although he lived in sin and would die in sin, him and all his progeny after him up until our day:

(Genesis 9:1) 9 God went on to bless Noah and his sons and to say to them: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth. **


God's purpose for earth has always been for it to be filled with humankind:

(Isaiah 45:18) For this is what Jehovah says, The Creator of the heavens, the true God, The One who formed the earth, its Maker who firmly established it, Who did not create it simply for nothing, but formed it to be inhabited: “I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.

God has blessed mankind, that is why we are as we are today.

Mankind is cursed because he has alienated himself from Jehovah. But he will act in his time, and before it is too late. We are still alive, we still breath. He sees the wickedness proliferate just as he did before the flood of Noah's day. And he will not act too late, just as he didn't in those days.

superfrog

abydos, site of the founding city of dynastic egypt. grave goods and graves: mesopotamian. coincedentally, abydos is a greek word, the egyptian spelling is abdju. the "dj" is pronounced "z", so that word would be abzu. what's sumerian abzu doing in egypt and not just any city in egypt but the site of the beginning of the pharaonic dynasties.

when i say flood, i mean black sea flood (which see)

khemites, you've never heard of the khemites? or khemetians?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Yes, because the local church in my town makes its believers chop off their own balls and kill themselves. I'm being sarcastic, but I think ATS loves to use the word "cult" in a derogatory way towards Christianity when they full well know that the word is used mainly to describe smaller, directly harmful movements.

a reply to: misskat1

I can relate. I was 60 when it began to dawn on me that my religion was no longer the one of my childhood. That was four years ago. I was raised by southern Baptists, several generations of Baptists. I loved it as it as a child, sunday school, the choir, the pot lucks, the fellowship. I was the poor kid, but I never felt poor at church. People were happy, good food, good fun. The preacher was a working man, but the church furnished a house. I fell in love with Jesus at nine years old. Then, in the 80's, people and the churches began to change.

It took me four years to deal with it. Whatever conclusion I have come to, I am at peace with it. I am not afraid of whatever is next.

a reply to: whooknows

Even I asked you not to quote bible, but just say, did God ask them to do incest. Well, according to you he did... bless them with incest... interesting... when did this happen??

Let's pretend incest is not an issue here. Here is interesting view of Noah's story shortcomings...





a reply to: undo
You do understand that there is no evidence of mix between those 2 cultures? 2 Different cultures, 2 different languages, 2 different way of writing, 2 completely different customs, religion.... trying to prove similarities through name of a place... grasping straws... nothing more...

As for Black Sea rise, wasn't there recent study that took 5 years that provided clues that if rise of black sea was mild, if at all. Nothing like a flood proposed in bible. I remember reading about it in NG about 4-5 years ago.

What about khemites?

a reply to: SuperFrog

the sumerians and egyptians (and hebrews) both had consonant heavy alphabets . the founding city of abydos had akkadian grave goods and graves. even the boats there were akkadian. they had 2 influxes from sumer, one to upper and the other to lower. the one to upper was narmer (nimrod/enmerkar), about 200 years after ham went to lower.

the flood in noah's account is 2 different floods. one only required 7 clean animals in pairs, 7 fowl in pairs and 2 unclean in pairs. this one coincides with one part of the sumerian account, since the king was required to only take the royal barnyard

the other was a reference to whatever caused the ice age.

a reply to: whooknows

My prayer would be that you examine, who Charles Russel was, what he believed in and how he came up with his dates. Who the authors of the New World Translation are, a hint: that info isnt available by the JWs, you will have to find it from the people who lived, worked and was a part of the Watch Tower Society at the time it was written, believe me when I tell you there is a reason they dont want you to know. Take a trip to Bethel and the Farm, see what you are really a part of, I did, and immediately I sent them a letter telling them that "if this is Gods Organization then He has died." I had two cousins who lived at Bethal and the farm at that time. and I got a real tour. Find out what they do to the elderly that have lived at the New York Head Quarters, and made their books for free for their entire lives.
Have you any idea how many times their predictions have failed? And dont give me that "New Light crap", the "New Light" is that if God did anything, He preserved the Nag Hammadi's and the Dead Sea Scrolls to show us today, what a bunch of Crap the Churches are full of.
Check into the extreme problem with Pedophiles, you dont even want my personal stories. And the church condems homosexuality, but do you want to know the truth about the single men who are working to make those books in NY?

I am so sorry, I dont doubt for a minute that you are anointed, but there also might be a reason you are disfellowshipped. If you are a truth seeker, for god sakes, find out the truth behind the JWs.

a reply to: undo


Please post your reference...

Simerian was a language isolate. What that really means? Do you know?

originally posted by: SuperFrog
a reply to: undo


Please post your reference...

Simerian was a language isolate. What that really means? Do you know?

reference to which thing?

i'm talking about the written not the hieroglyphs/cuneiform. never tried those. might find some interesting corollaries

for example, a name for god in egypt was IAH, which in hebrew is YAH and in sumerian-akkadian is EA.

a reply to: misskat1

More than you know.

BTW, there is a new revision out of the Holy Scriptures. You should read it some time. I'm sure you can figure out where it is if you want.

Even members of the governing body don't get paid. If you want to dispute that look to Raymond Franz, an apostate from the governing body. He left with $500 in his bank account.

Many people try to lie and say they are trying to get money from people. When all that money goes into printing books and tracts, and building kingdom halls around the world, as well as to relief efforts in disaster stricken areas.

And don't ask me about my knowledge about Bethel. I've been there, my dad has been there, I know many members of the governing body, and many others who are there, both in New York, and other parts of the world.

Lies might work with other weak folk, but not with someone so intimate with the organization. There is a reason you are shunned as well. And it might not be as nice as the one I am for. Or it is. I don't know. But one thing is clear. You lost your faith. When I didn't.

And you are willing to lie, while I am not.

a reply to: whooknows

I was disfellowshiped because of the letter I sent them. I directly told them I wanted to be disfellowshipped because it was all lies.

And obviously, you arent willing to take a look at what you think are lies. JFYI, my gr gr grandfather was a JW, I spent my time as a regular pioneer, I have cousins that to this day live at the head quarters and Farm. What would be my motive or agenda to make up stuff about this? My calling isnt to save JW's. We all must workout our own salvation. If you want to keep your fingers in your ears and not research the clues ive shared and want to discount them as lies, its way OK with me.