Forced to get Flu Shot - How can I decline?

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Yet people who DO work in healthcare may suffer from a variety of concerns (and they may be more educated than you) and do not, will not take the vaccine.

Even if you're a janitor at a hospital you should be vaccinated. It's that simple. The risk to patients is too high. If even one person dies because some idiot decided not to vaccinate, it's one too many.

If it's a condition of employment at a healthcare facility and they refuse to receive the vaccination, they can (and should in my opinion) be fired.

My grandmother nearly died. She recently had surgery to have part of her lung removed, and her immune system was severely compromised thanks to chemo and radiotherapy. Some idiot gave her the flu, and she nearly died because of it. So yeah, it's a little personal.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
If you had a problem with vaccines of any kind, you have no business working in the medical field, as vaccinations are (in the vast majority of cases) a REQUIREMENT to remain employed in the field.

So, if you have ANY issues with the laws/policies of a city, state, or federal government, you should not dissent or fight it? If I don't like our current president and his mandate that I must have health insurance, does that mean that I have no business being an American?

What horrible train of thought brought you to your conclusion? So every employee in every field should just tow the line and either quit their job or conform? There is a lot in between those two extremes, and I think they make much more sense than what you're proposing.

I looked at an IT position in the healthcare industry recently. High enough in the chain that I wouldn't be exposed to much of the staff or any of the patients.

I wouldn't touch that job with a ten foot pole if they were going to force me to get injected with things against my will. Being vaccinated doesn't stop you from carrying it around anyway.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
If you had a problem with vaccines of any kind, you have no business working in the medical field, as vaccinations are (in the vast majority of cases) a REQUIREMENT to remain employed in the field.

So, if you have ANY issues with the laws/policies of a city, state, or federal government, you should not dissent or fight it? If I don't like our current president and his mandate that I must have health insurance, does that mean that I have no business being an American?

What horrible train of thought brought you to your conclusion? So every employee in every field should just tow the line and either quit their job or conform? There is a lot in between those two extremes, and I think they make much more sense than what you're proposing.

If it's an at-will state you can be fired for walking wrong. If the hospital/clinic/healthcare facility has a requirement that you take the flu vaccine and you refuse, you can (and should) be fired. Just like if you work fast food and your boss catches you not washing your hands after using the bathroom.

If you don't work healthcare do what you want. I don't care, but if you're around me, or my family while we're in your care and catching the flu could complicate my/my family's condition, you'd better be vaccinated. And if I find out you're not I'll bring holy hellfire down upon you and the hosptial. Bet on it.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
My grandmother nearly died. She recently had surgery to have part of her lung removed, and her immune system was severely compromised thanks to chemo and radiotherapy. Some idiot gave her the flu, and she nearly died because of it. So yeah, it's a little personal.

For all you know, whomever transmitted the flu virus to her was immunized, just with the wrong strain that season. Your "idiot" about whom you're talking may have taken the same precautions as you, but it was the vaccine that failed, not the "idiot."

It's apparent that your emotions are clouding your logic in this discussion. I understand it being personal, but just remember that your solution to this problem is not even close to being massively effective every flu season.

We can trade off improbable stories, though--the only time in my life that I have ever had the full-blown flu was the one year in my adulthood that I received the vaccine. Go figure.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
My grandmother nearly died. She recently had surgery to have part of her lung removed, and her immune system was severely compromised thanks to chemo and radiotherapy. Some idiot gave her the flu, and she nearly died because of it. So yeah, it's a little personal.

For all you know, whomever transmitted the flu virus to her was immunized, just with the wrong strain that season. Your "idiot" about whom you're talking may have taken the same precautions as you, but it was the vaccine that failed, not the "idiot."

It's apparent that your emotions are clouding your logic in this discussion. I understand it being personal, but just remember that your solution to this problem is not even close to being massively effective every flu season.

We can trade off improbable stories, though--the only time in my life that I have ever had the full-blown flu was the one year in my adulthood that I received the vaccine. Go figure.

Even if the vaccine is only 50% effective, that's still a 50% less change I or my family will be infected by it if we end up under your care. I like that over no chance at all.

I am really surprised that you would take a career in the health industry if vaccinations are an issue for you.

I work for a hospital and since I travel to the clinical or patient care areas vaccinations are given.
If that bothered me then i would have never taken this job.

To me it's like taking a job as cop and saying "guns are against my beliefs so I will not carry one" .

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

You are looking at this from an emotional aspect.

Surely, healthcare folks know more about transmission of flu viruses than IT folks, agreed?

And who's to say that the individual who transmitted the virus wasn't vaccinated?

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
If you don't work healthcare do what you want. I don't care, but if you're around me, or my family while we're in your care and catching the flu could complicate my/my family's condition, you'd better be vaccinated. And if I find out you're not I'll bring holy hellfire down upon you and the hosptial. Bet on it.

And how are you going to find out the vaccinationg status of an employee at the hospital? Look, I get your emotional concern on this issue considering what happened to your grandmother, but seriously, you're making comments and threats that defy logic, and they make you sound fanatical.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

I actually find it fascinating that most of the "Anti-Vax" movement is in the U.S.

Well, not if you count third world countries afraid of modern medicine. But the point remains. Most first world nations know vaccines do much more good than harm, and yet in the U.S. "Muh Liberties" get in the way. If you personally don't want to get vaccinated, that's your choice. But when your employer decides to find someone else who is just as qualified and WILLING to be vaccinated, well that loss of livelihood is on you I guess.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
We can trade off improbable stories, though--the only time in my life that I have ever had the full-blown flu was the one year in my adulthood that I received the vaccine. Go figure.

Even if the vaccine is only 50% effective, that's still a 50% less change I or my family will be infected by it if we end up under your care. I like that over no chance at all.

Now you're assuming that everyone you come into contact with is infected. A 50% rate of efficacy of a vaccine does not equate to a 50% chance that you will not get the virus if you're immunized. Using your math, that would mean that I have a 100% chance of getting the flu every year, yet I have not had it ever before I was 26 nor after (I'm 36 now).

Not that we need to continue on this tangent, but you know...numbers.

You guys can say what you want. I haven't had the flu for over 15 years and am probably one of, if not the most healthiest person at my job.

I have a completely organic tailored diet, near zero body fat, removed ALL sugar, (except for naturally occurring), and supplement with whole food powders and healthy essential oils as well as colloidal silver, healing mushrooms, oregano, turmeric, capsaicin, etc.

I took control of my health. It is possible.

What I CANT control, is a problem we all face.

Stop singling me out because I have a choice over what goes in my body while others think they don't. To say I put the people I work for at risk is delusional. You should see how many vaccinated people get sick and still come to work.

They are the problem, not me and I will agree to disagree with anyone about the way I handle my business.

i would hope that you would be able to politely decline and suffer no ill-feeling or discomfort as a result.

i remember way back when, in my grammar school, the TB shots were being administered. i was actually in the queue for my shot when i (genuinely) recalled i had to attend to an urgent domestic matter at home, so i excused myself and left, with the understanding i would get the shot later. as it happened i never did get the shot, nor the resultant scar on the upper arm that virtually everyone else of my generation has. i never caught TB

originally posted by: rickymouse
a reply to: Prezbo369
You are trying to tell me that doctors from the seventies that had died in the eighties and their offices were not bought out still have records that I can get ahold of.

Impossible to know unless you bother to actually check...

I never had any records transferred to a new doctor from them.

You never checked so how would you know? you're making this up..

I can't even get access to the medical records from six years ago from our doctor. They never put them on the computer, the old records got shipped off for archiving and nothing is in my electronic files.

Doctors using a paper filing system in 2009?......extremely doubtful.

My brother's doctor, we have the same clinic, asked him who he had gone to before, all his records from about fifty visits and two associated operations disappeared and the doctor did not know what to do about it.

Wow what a crazy coincidence! both you and your brother...

Seems like when my records disappeared, the doctors don't remember crap. I had hundreds of appointments and tests get misplaced.

Yeah doctors do not have intimate knowledge of the health records of all their patients...

I have doctors who I deal with that know what I am saying is true, the current doctor of my grandchildren will vouch for what I say. You on the other hand, who has never met me or known of how honest I am, I can have many people vouch for my honesty, am saying you are right with no evidence at all to back it up.

You've posted anecdotal tales like this in anti-vax threads in the past, and just like on those occasions your tales dont make sense.

How would your grandchildren's doctor be able to vouch for your claims if even you are unaware whether or not your medical records still exist and would show that you would have a potentially dangerous or 'bad reaction' to a vaccination??

Seems asthough you like to wallow in ignorance, as such essential information should not be ignored regardless of which side of the vax debate you're on.....well, essential if you care about your own health that is.

If I'm not mistaken the healthcare worker vaccine for flu has literally more to do with Medicaid/Medicare coverage for hospitals as opposed to patient safety. The vaccine is what guarantees insurance coverage. I see it as more of a yearly staple for the pharmaceutical co's. I work in healthcare and I always have a reaction to the shot/mist whatever. Thanks to high c intake it usually only lasts about 24 hours.

I have to agree with Beezer on the subject that regular hygiene standards should truthfully suffice. I certainly don't know where anyone gets off thinking hospitals are super sterile environments anyhow, there not. A lot of that issue stems from paying the people who clean them the least wages yet we expect the ultimate accountability from said people. It is mostly politics and propaganda. I would surmise that a lot of people who are able to not take the vac and say they did do just that indeed.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

A person vaccinated against the flu has been exposed to the flu. The vaccine has 50% efficacy. If something were to happen that would expose me to that person's body fluids/sweat/etc, I would then have a 50% chance of catching the flu.

A person unvaccinated in the exact same circumstances, I would have a 100% chance of catching the flu.

Yeah, being put in a circumstance that someone exposed to the flu could transfer to me is unlikely, but it's not impossible. I'd rather be seen by vaccinated person than not.

originally posted by: eisegesis
You guys can say what you want. I haven't had the flu for over 15 years and am probably one of, if not the most healthiest person at my job.

I have a completely organic tailored diet, near zero body fat, removed ALL sugar, (except for naturally occurring), and supplement with whole food powders and healthy essential oils as well as colloidal silver, healing mushrooms, oregano, turmeric, capsaicin, etc.

I took control of my health. It is possible.

What I CANT control, is a problem we all face.

Stop singling me out because I have a choice over what goes in my body while others think they don't. To say I put the people I work for at risk is delusional. You should see how many vaccinated people get sick and still come to work.

They are the problem, not me and I will agree to disagree with anyone about the way I handle my business.

Anyone can chose, but whether or not they're in a position to make the right decision is another issue.

But yeah you eat a lot of herbs and oils so you obviously know what you're talking about.....

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

No loss of livelihood is on me...and FYI, I'm not anti-vax, I'm anti-unnecessary things in my body. I'm an advocate of staying healthy and using my natural immune system to fight disease and create a much more effective and long-lasting immunity.

I, as do many other people labeled "anti-vaxxers", weight the personal necessity of a vaccine--we look at the illness, the rates and probablilities of severe side effects or death, and we go from there. Polio? Sure, vaccinate me. Measels? Nah, I'm good, don't want it. Flu? I'll be fine--albeit, miserable--if I catch it.

You chuckle off your "Mugh Liberties" comment, but that's the beauty of America--we have the liberty to make those choices. We own ourselves, not our government (for the most part, anyhow).

But I'm not arguing against an employer's right to mandate vaccinations in the health field, granted that they made that perfectly clear upon employment. If they did, and you choose to not get vaccinated, your job is on the line, plain and simple. But if that was not abundantly clear at the time of hiring, then it's a fightable issue, and I would.

originally posted by: eisegesis
You guys can say what you want. I haven't had the flu for over 15 years and am probably one of, if not the most healthiest person at my job.

I have a completely organic tailored diet, near zero body fat, removed ALL sugar, (except for naturally occurring), and supplement with whole food powders and healthy essential oils as well as colloidal silver, healing mushrooms, oregano, turmeric, capsaicin, etc.

I took control of my health. It is possible.

What I CANT control, is a problem we all face.

Stop singling me out because I have a choice over what goes in my body while others think they don't. To say I put the people I work for at risk is delusional. You should see how many vaccinated people get sick and still come to work.

They are the problem, not me and I will agree to disagree with anyone about the way I handle my business.

Sorry, if you're unvaccinated, I want you nowhere near me or mine in regard to healthcare. You have a choice. So do I.

a reply to: Prezbo369

But, I have had doctors tell me within the last three years that the symptoms I had with the flu shot meant I could not take the flu shot. Now, are you actually a doctor? Or are you pretending to be a doctor. A doctor would know that some people cannot take a flu shot.

I am not an antivaxer, I believe some are necessary. I just know that people who have hyperactive immune systems can't take vaccines sometimes because the immune response is very bad.

I won't advise anyone either way, but will tell people that if you got a bad reaction off the flu vaccine that maybe you should talk to your doctor about not taking the flu shot.