MH17 – Leaked Dutch Foreign Office Email

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: MysterX

Always thought it was elements from Kiev that planned and carried out this slaughter...in order to blame separatists or the Russians or if they're lucky enough, both of them.

Well, have you never wondered how this element from Kiev got that far into separatists held territory to be able drive through not detected and captured by the separatists before or after this happened?

As the separatists would have had a parade for capturing Ukrainian military hardware that just shot down a commercial airliner.

But of course somehow Ukraine pulled the stealthiest shoot down of a plane from Separatists held land in history without even be heard. I see they have asked David Copperfield a few questions on how to make something disappear right in front of your eyes.

Your reasoning can be logically applied to both side of the conflict, especially your points about not being seen or heard...forgive me, but that is a rather silly thing to say in a land as large as we're talking about here, even if i was referring to a BUK system or similar G2A missile system, which i'm not, as i don't believe it was a G2A missile that took MH17 out.

Let's just say this:

HYPOTHETICALLY...a specially outfitted fighter has neither the ceiling nor the top speed of a commercial jet-liner, however, any interception plan, even acknowledging these flight limitations of a Ukrainian fighter jet, would simply include launching the fighter into a holding pattern, along the flightpath of the jet-liner (which was specifically moved into the flight path by ATC)...the speed differences between the aircraft would mean that the fighter would be 'waiting' for the airliner to 'catch it up and overtake above the fighter, at only a marginal and approximate speed difference of around 50 mph....anyone competent in a fighter can hit a very large target travelling at a relative speed difference of 50 mph. Once the kill shot had been launched, both the maximum ceiling and slightly lower top speed of the fighter would be moot...the missile being many times faster and easily able to catch, reach and destroy the flimsy airliner.

Once the airliner had been 'painted' and locked onto, the rest is history...the BUK theory, everything that came afterwards is all part of the fit up of separatists and / or the Russians for geopolitical ends. Life is cheap to these people, and a couple of hundred passengers here and there is not important in the slightest to these murderers, especially if it has the desired result of smothering the separatists or Russians in crap.

Let's play ,
What's easier:

The Ukraine working hard clandestinely securing a sophisticated
expensive weapon using it once and getting a perfect hit ?
Or Putin doing it and blaming it on them?
"What's easier" works great with apartment towers and theatre
bombings as well, except Chechnyan Rebels are blamed.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien
It is very hard to prove which side is right and which side is wrong. Most of the propoganda Eg truck with the buk 1 misile launcher on the back of it has been debunked and the car dealer in the background is know where near the border. there is definitely a misile missing though. A lot of recordings that were used to try and make cases were later debunked or shown to be out of context. The ukrainians said that they did not have their buk 1 misile launchers in the area at the time but this was later proved to be a lie. The very fact that the ukrainians use these exact misile launchers must be also taken into account as it is a seldom mentioned fact. ( The Russians now use the updated and far superior bak 2 misile launchers although some buk 1s must be lying around idle and surplus to needs.) On the other side the mysterious air traffic controler seems to have disappeared and most of the Russian evidence is unproven or untested.

It would seem very strange that Putin would send an outdated but still safisticated piece of equipment that needed significant training to operate into a war zone that he denied that his troops were in when Russia has much more high tech equipment that is not as easily detectable to send in. If it can be proven that a military aircraft shot this plane down then it will prove beyond a doubt that it was the ukrainian air force as Russia nor the rebels are using any air craft at all in this war. Also why would the Ukrainians have thier Buk 1 misile launchers in an area where there is no enemy aircraft as these weapons are used mainly used to shoot down enemy aircraft and not in ground warfare. If the rebels did capture one of the Ukrainians buk 1 misile launchers how would they know how to use it with out the significant training needed. The plane that the rebels shot down was at a much lower altitude than MH17 Why would a group that is investigating something as important as this choose an option to withhold information for as long as they like that does not have to be released ever if they do not want to do so not even in their final report. Without the complete an total information it is impossible to make an informed decision. Finally both America and Russia have form in false flags, deceit, manipulation and have less than trueful media and therefore niether can be trusted fully. It is very hard to determine the truth in a den of vipers.

originally posted by: Qspeedyrock
a reply to: BornAgainAlien
It is very hard to prove which side is right and which side is wrong. Most of the propoganda Eg truck with the buk 1 misile launcher on the back of it has been debunked and the car dealer in the background is know where near the border. there is definitely a misile missing though. A lot of recordings that were used to try and make cases were later debunked or shown to be out of context. The ukrainians said that they did not have their buk 1 misile launchers in the area at the time but this was later proved to be a lie.

No it hasn't. The location of the truck on the buk video was Luhansk. The question arises as to why the Russians were so quick to claim to the world that the video was filmed in Krasnoarmeysk? Why did the Russian military lie to the world when they made the following claim in their MH17 presentation?

From the Russian Military presentation

The good example of such fact is that some mass media showed transportation of the Buk-M1 missile system from Ukrainian to Russian territory.We can clearly see that its frame-up. These pictures were made in the city of Krasnoarmeisk that is confirmed by a banner situated close to the road. This banner has an address of the car shop situated at the Dnepropetrovskaya, 34. Since May 11 the Krasnoarmeysk city is under control of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

www.rusemb.org.uk...

There was no address banner on the billboard and internet sleuths quickly found the true filming location in Luhansk. Was that the best that Russian military intelligence could do with all their intelligence resources? Even today they still have that Krasnoarmeisk lie on their UK Embassy website. Even Russia Today very quickly dropped the near constant boasting of the video being geolocated to Krasnoarmeysk after it was found to be Luhansk. Again why has the Russian Military not corrected their mistake?

The Russian Military has also been caught out with the satellite imagery that they produced claiming that Ukrainian Buks were deployed from and to specific loations. Take the Buk at A1428. To make it appear that the Ukrainians had deployed from that location they produced a satellite image. Unfortunately they edited out a disabled Buk that was still in the same position before and after the MH17 tragedy. Naughty Russians! You can check that out on Google Earth with the historic imagery.

goo.gl...

The following was the Russian Military caption on the satellite image of A1428.

July 17. The same position north of Donetsk without anti-missile system "Buk-M1". He is absent. He was taken. What for?

Naughty Russians got caught out when that specific Buk is actually a disabled example that never moved. For the Russians story to pan out they had to make some Buks magically move around. Unfortunately it is easy to see that they got caught in a lie. It puts a huge question mark over the other satellite imagery presented by the Russians.

Russian presented imagery

s3.stc.all.kpcdn.net...

s5.stc.all.kpcdn.net...

www.kp.ru...

The reality was that they made the disabled Buk move. Ouch!

2.bp.blogspot.com...

4.bp.blogspot.com...

www.urban75.net...-13586935

The Dutch government knew that there were BUK missile systems operational at that time . They had information three days before the incident took place .. why choose to fly over east Ukraine if you know that there was another plane downed that same day.. This really starting to smell real bad..