MH17 – Leaked Dutch Foreign Office Email

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

So apparently the silence is not so deafening as you claim?

I've seen videos and pictures from media reports. I have read preliminary reports released by the Dutch investigators . What I felt telling in their statements is that the Dutch have not assigned blame to anyone in their preliminary reports.



But like I said if you want to rush to judgment before all the information is on hand. Feel free to do so, I preferred to get all the information before I draw my conclusions.


You could help me in this pursuit by linking me to a English version transcript of the voice data recorder. Or a English version of the news story I cannot translate on my phone. But I will admit I have not heard the actual cockpit voice recordings as you claim to have.

a reply to: Greathouse

But like I said if you want to rush to judgment before all the information is on hand. Feel free to do so, I preferred to get all the information before I draw my conclusions.

There`s enough information on hand about Western Media/Politicians making the assumptions they know what has happened, only to be contradicted by the investigators themselves, combine that with not wanting to share certain information (which they had no problem in doing in the past) and the conclusion can be made we have been propagandised by one possible side of what has happened...long story short, if they had the case they wanted, we all would have been knowing it by now.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I see where your confusion arises. In Russia the Russian news is the official statement. You seem to think that all the reports you look at on mainstream media is the West's official statement.

Your reply was Weighted and found wanting for your failure to recognize that the official report is not due for six months. And your erroneous assumption that news reports reflect a official investigation in the west.

But from your stance I can only assume that this is the one time you believe every western mainstream Media Report as fact?


As for your repeated dishonest claims about this investigation not be honest and forthright with their information.

Here's a link that happen in the United States to a United Parcel Service cargo plane. Now notice just like in the case of flight MH 17 reports were released statements were made, but it took one year and a month almost to the day before the official report was given.

UPS CRASH

I ask you for an English version or transcript of the voice data recorder you failed to supply it.

I have repeatedly debunked your claims about speedy crash inspections.

I have repeatedly told you when all information should be available.

All you do is keep repeating false claims over and over, and ignoring answers and the links given to you for those questions.

a reply to: Greathouse

But from your stance I can only assume that this is the one time you believe every western mainstream Media Report as fact?

You can assume, because of reading a lot of MSM (also), having a certain amount of knowledge about certain subjects, having a good analytical brain and actually thinking about what I see and read, I`m not that easily fooled by propaganda and have the ability to think for myself instead of just absorbing things which are being fed to me.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

But in this case you're making false claims about the length of airplane crash investigations. While whining and crying about satellite information and voice cockpit recorders that aren't due for six months!!!!

So basically you're forming an opinion when you acknowledge the lack of information you have for making that opinion. All the while thinking objective people are oblivious of your motives.

a reply to: Greathouse

It`s about the US and Ukraine not being shy to present "evidence" to the public when it suits them...

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

They aren't being shy. Much information has been released in the pleminary Dutch safety Board report. Your problem is you are too impatient in your rush to judgment to wait six months for all the information to be released in The official report even after it's been announced when that report was due.

a reply to: Greathouse

The preliminary report doesn`t mention much, "penetrated with high energy objects" could mean anything. Just as the flight data recorders, which still needed more in depth analysis.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Correct that is exactly what I said earlier. So far the Dutch aren't blaming anybody, so in the nature of looking at all things objectively. Don't you think people should at least wait till they see the Dutch safety board official report before trumpeting their opinions?

After all we all know the version of the Russian side. MH 17 was shot down by Ukrainian SU 25 according to them.

a reply to: Greathouse

Yet, US has in their War resolutions from December stating Russia is responsible and IHS Jane`s was saying it was leaked to the local Dutch press by the investigators about what has happened.

Interesting, IHS Jane's has pulled the article (but not after it went viral of course)...

IHS Jane's: Dutch investigation concludes #MH17 downed by Buk missile from Russian battery

So with removing what they have posted earlier, I was right when I said it was just propaganda...

This page and the next

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

And what does that have to do on waiting for the official Dutch safety Board report? If you want to believe or discount the US version or Janes or for that matter a weekly high school newspaper without waiting on all the facts feel free to.

I will objectively wait untill all information has presented itself then I will decide. As it stands now it is completely apparent to everyone that your decision has already been reached.

Again I might just agree with your stance, but I will make my decision from a fully informed perspective.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

And that`s why the Dutch investigators have requested for that evidence and is the chief investigator going to Moscow...I`m sure he will go there to just have a laugh at the Russians.

So what are they going to show them, a radar that says an SU 25 shot it down as they have and you yourself have pushed many times before. Or are they going to use the pic they said showed beyond a shadow of a doubt it was a Ukrainian plane that did it.

Remember Russia put their evidence out there for the world to see, and it was laughable. How much do you think people believe a government who sent troops to a sovereign country to annex part of it then create what they did in the east all while lying about where their soldiers were dying to the families if those soldiers.

But hey Russia is never lying and they are always truthful when it comes to the situation in Ukraine.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
Yes, the whole MH17 case is proving to be a "Master Class" for readers on how evidence can be falsified to fit a certain narrative

Riiight, so everything currently being gathered by an international team of investigators is "faslsified evidence", but the claims made by pro-Russian bloggers and suggestions made by RT are all 100% true and accurate and can't possibly be nothing more than propaganda, even with their entire lack of any evidence to support any of those claims...

Gotcha.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
and on how easy some people will take things for truth instead of looking into the evidence and how solid it actually is.

And how pro-Russian propagandists will ignore all the facts and all the evidence we have already seen in favor of believing the statements from Rebels, the Russian government and other bloggers, where no evidence at all is even offered to support their view.

Really, I want to see some of this evidence you claim exists of this being anything other than the Rebels having shot down a plane using Russian-supplied weaponry. There is no evidence to show this, none at all, nothing, and you can't provide any because it doesn't exist.

And in contrast, there is plenty of evidence suggesting it was a BUK missile, supplied to the Rebels, photographed entering Ukraine from Russia, and fired from Rebel held territory, before then being filmed leaving that area with one missile gone.

Show us the actual evidence for what you claim, show us how what you believe contradicts the radio communications, the video and photographic evidence, the damage to the plane. Maybe you'll have a little more credibility once you can change the weight of EVIDENCE to support your view instead of it entirely ripping your view to shreds?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Always thought it was elements from Kiev that planned and carried out this slaughter...in order to blame separatists or the Russians or if they're lucky enough, both of them.

Hopefully, it will bite them in the arse, and they'll be held accountable for the murders of innocent people on that flight.

a reply to: Rocker2013

When someone with credentials like this is saying, that the SBU supplied photos, videos and audiotapes aren`t making a case, simply because we don`t when they have been taken, they don`t proof if they have been used to shoot down MH17 and also don`t link to anyone...I have to ask you, what evidence are you talking about ?

a reply to: MysterX

Always thought it was elements from Kiev that planned and carried out this slaughter...in order to blame separatists or the Russians or if they're lucky enough, both of them.

Well, have you never wondered how this element from Kiev got that far into separatists held territory to be able drive through not detected and captured by the separatists before or after this happened?

As the separatists would have had a parade for capturing Ukrainian military hardware that just shot down a commercial airliner.

But of course somehow Ukraine pulled the stealthiest shoot down of a plane from Separatists held land in history without even be heard. I see they have asked David Copperfield a few questions on how to make something disappear right in front of your eyes.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

When someone with credentials like this is saying, that the SBU supplied photos, videos and audiotapes aren`t making a case, simply because we don`t when they have been taken, they don`t proof if they have been used to shoot down MH17 and also don`t link to anyone...I have to ask you, what evidence are you talking about ?

So not unlike your Russian evidence that is supposedly concrete...

Remember these pics...

And then changing the wiki page of the SU 25 to back their claims really doesn't help their case about the evidence they supposedly have.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

What Separatists hold territory ?


The situation was also very fluid at that time.

originally posted by: glend
I don't need any leaked report to tell me what happened, the silence on MH17 has been deafening, which tells who was responsible for downing the jet. If the evidence actually pointed to Russian involvement we would have heard about it months ago.

So what does the fascist US/Europe leaders do, continue their illegal sanctions against Russia based on what?

Right. America's fault. Somehow, someway...America's fault.

For what it's worth and however it may be relevant to this thread, I was at a Defense Enhancement Coalition luncheon yesterday here in Jersey yesterday and one of our Congressmen (Google it) who just returned from this area was discussing the UN observers and their direct and clear evidence of the Russian troops in Ukraine which he had reviewed. Russia is in Ukraine. Make no mistake about that. They and their weapons are where they should not be. Believe what you want, but that's the truth.