MH17 – Leaked Dutch Foreign Office Email

a reply to: Greathouse

The suggestion they know what has happened has been made relentlessly in the media, but at the same time it has been downplayed just as quickly (but kept out of MSM of course).

German FM plays down intel claiming Ukraine militia downed MH17

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

But yet you still formed a opinion without hearing the official report and evidence. Which again is not due to October 2015.

You claim the media is to be question. Yet repeatedly you back the opinion you formed hearing one side of the story with media sources. If you can form your opinion after hearing only one side of the story. It's not a opinion it is a agenda.


Or do you have a problem on waiting until both official sources are divulged before making your mind up?

a reply to: Greathouse

I have to say, for someone who opened a thread about propaganda, you sure have difficulties in spotting who does it.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

That must mean that in your opinion. Waiting to hear both sides and see all the evidence in the investigation before forming a opinion is propaganda?

WOW just WOW?

a reply to: Greathouse

Completely ridiculous response.

Just look at the source and you see why it's that way....Consortium News.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I have to say, for someone who opened a thread about propaganda, you sure have difficulties in spotting who does it.

And some of us can see it from a mile away...

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Completely ridiculous response. US intelligence, Dutch intelligence, English intelligence ETC have all said routinely what they think happened.

The proof in the pudding will be when the official report is released in October 2015 if they can't back up the previous statements with pictures, sources and satellite imagery then we will know.

But for you to completely believe one official response without hearing the other, makes your impartiality/motives suspect at best.

I would rather hear both sides of the story and make up my own opinion. But if you insist on only looking at the evidence from one side and forming your opinion, be prepared to be wrong in many of your opinions.

Well you say one thing in the last paragraph, and demonstrate in the first paragraph quite a singular view of what intelligence services say, which is exactly what... ad verbatim?
I don't care if you agree with one view or the other, just tell me what all these intelligence are saying routinely please.

a reply to: Greathouse

It means only, having read and heard about all I can about the case, and having seen claims being made within hours about what has happened by one side to be not followed with decent evidence and contradicting stories the whole time...one side has been pushing a lot of propaganda.

And if that side would have had actual solid evidence for their narrative, we would have seen it already very quickly...remember Germanwings plane crash just recently and how quickly we got informed about what has happened with evidence to back it up ?

With such a desperate attempt, and critical situation which MH17 is part of, you would expect US having made public their data and also we would already know what those 25 (outside) particles found in the pilots body exactly are, don`t you think ?

a reply to: smurfy

No you took the first paragraphand and assumed I believe that Side of the story. After you read the rest of the statement you will realize my judgment is out until I hear both sides of the story.

The key is not to make any assumptions in what you read, assumptions usually only occur when you have a preformed idea.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

It means only, having read and heard about all I can about the case,

Excluding the official Dutch report where they will need to show their evidence.




I don't know why you are taking such offense to a completely obvious statement.

What you're missing is I might listen to the Dutch side of the argument and find it invalid, yet I am willing to let them be heard before I form my opinion.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: Greathouse

This silence...

I love your "selective" silence.

There's hasn't been silence on this, there has been plenty of discussion about the BUK system being seen, videos and photo evidence of it entering rebel held areas of Ukraine from Russia, there has been a video request for witnesses to come forward, there has been information released about the damage to the plane.

What you really mean is that you're upset that the facts we know don't support your BS about this all being the fault of the US and the "Nazis" in Kiev, and instead show that this was Rebel action (as heard in their own radio communications), supported by Russia.

I really don't know why you continue to get stars for your posts, it's clear you reject all evidence contradicting your pro-Russian nonsense, sane and rational people are well aware of the information out there and what it suggests no matter how much you and your friends want to refuse to recognize it.

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: smurfy

No you took the first paragraphand and assumed I believe that Side of the story. After you read the rest of the statement you will realize my judgment is out until I hear both sides of the story.

The key is not to make any assumptions in what you read, assumptions usually only occur when you have a preformed idea.

Read my post again sunshine! I don't give a shiite about status, I want you to spill the beans, as per your first paragraph in your last post. I personally would pay you handsomely for the intelligence detail you didn't offer, had you offered it in detail.

a reply to: smurfy

Then maybe you want to read the entire thread the accusations made by the west were prominently displayed on page 1.

At least you didn't deny acting on unfounded assumptions about my judgment on MH 17.

a reply to: Greathouse

If you have actually looked into what forum I have posted this (General Conspiracies Forum) and have read what I wrote in my OP, you would notice I`m only saying it`s a good possibility this has happened, but I haven`t made the claim I`m sure this has happened.

I also have been aggravating (debunking) against claims being made by various sources about the Dutch Investigators and other foreign Intelligence Services having actual evidence about Separatists/Russians were behind it, all we have seen so far coming from "Western" side is nothing more as evidence which can be easily have been manufactured in order to fit a certain narrative.

When we take in account, a deliberate attempt to discredit Russia as much as can be done in all kinds of matters, it makes sense this is also happening regarding MH17.

Why is crucial evidence being withheld from the public, while in similar cases it has been made public with ease, and why is the impression been given they know what has happened all the time and yet at the same time they acknowledge they don`t have the case which is written about they have ?

originally posted by: Greathouse
a reply to: smurfy



At least you didn't deny acting on unfounded assumptions about my judgment on MH 17.

Huh!

a reply to: Rocker2013

Yes, the whole MH17 case is proving to be a "Master Class" for readers on how evidence can be falsified to fit a certain narrative and on how easy some people will take things for truth instead of looking into the evidence and how solid it actually is.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I also have been aggravating (debunking) against claims being made by various sources about the Dutch Investigators and other foreign Intelligence Services having actual evidence about Separatists/Russians were behind it, all we have seen so far coming from "Western" side is nothing more as evidence which can be easily have been manufactured in order to fit a certain narrative.

And yet you fail every time.

You do understand that the West is under no obligation to give their evidence to anyone except those conducting the investigation.

And what's funny is all the evidence that Russia tries to provide is either so wrong or so laughable it hurts.

When we take in account, a deliberate attempt to discredit Russia as much as can be done in all kinds of matters, it makes sense this is also happening regarding MH17.

Pretty sure Russia is discrediting themselves just fine, so no need for anyone else to.

Why is crucial evidence being withheld from the public, while in similar cases it has been made public with ease, and why is the impression been given they know what has happened all the time and yet at the same time they acknowledge they don`t have the case which is written about they have ?

And what crucial evidence did the separatists take away before they ever let observers and investigators in there to do their jobs?

You seem to think you are entitled to something your not, so relax and wait for the final report like the rest of us.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Actually I don't have to look any further than this thread. Here's a quote on your opinion from your OP.

It falls also in the same line as to what Robber Parry his source is telling and would explain why the US doesn`t want to share its satellite and radar imagery while in the past they have been handing those kinds of things out like they were cookies.

This and the deafening silence you also referred to, goes hand-in-hand.

All I did was point out that why yes the west does give opinions and makes statements. ( as God is my witness I don't know how you could be on the Internet and not know that)

In a criminal investigation which this will be regardless of who shot the plane down. Responsible investigators hold the details near and dear until they try to make their case.

Your remarks about silence and the opinions led by untruths like the above quote. Reek of one sidedness and the inability to view something open-mindedly.





Edit; For gods sake quit saying the evidence is being withheld when the report isn't due for 6 months!

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

And what's funny is all the evidence that Russia tries to provide is either so wrong or so laughable it hurts.

And that`s why the Dutch investigators have requested for that evidence and is the chief investigator going to Moscow...I`m sure he will go there to just have a laugh at the Russians.

a reply to: Greathouse

For gods sake quit saying the evidence is being withheld when the report isn't due for 6 months!

Videos, photos and audiotapes, which they present as evidence, has been made public already...so no points for you there.

And the audiotapes have already been blasted by the biggest expert we have on international law as having a case, same as the pictures and videos.

Dutch 26:00 min