MH17 – Leaked Dutch Foreign Office Email

With Kolomoysky himself saying they were behind it, and the Ukrainians denying the Separatists had the equipment to do it, it`s a good possibility this is what has happened, because the Russians themselves would much less likely be making such a mistake.

It falls also in the same line as to what Robber Parry his source is telling and would explain why the US doesn`t want to share its satellite and radar imagery while in the past they have been handing those kinds of things out like they were cookies.

MH17 – Leaked Dutch Foreign Office Email

One of the largest political public forums in the Netherlands geenstijl.nl and focal point of the Dutch resistance against Islamization of the Netherlands, has published a leaked email, written by a Dutch diplomat and probably sent to colleagues within the Dutch foreign ministry. Date: 14 July 2014, that is three days before the MH17 tragedy. She reports about a briefing of western diplomats by Ukrainian foreign minister Pavlo Klimkin. Klimkin expressed his concern about the escalation of the military situation in the East. He also stresses the danger of the situation in the skies above Donbass and refers to a recent case of an Antonov that was downed from an altitude of 6200 m. The Geenstijl folks use the email to illustrate that the Dutch government knew very well about the dangers of flying over Donbass and (correctly) accuse the Dutch government of negligence and inaction. So far, so good.

But Geenstijl fails to notice a very interesting fact and as a consequence doesn’t draw far-reaching conclusions from it.

The Ukrainian foreign minister openly states that the separatists don’t have the means to take down planes from high altitude and (probably correctly) accuses the Russian Federation of taking the Ukrainian military Antonov down.

Source

The Danger of an MH-17 ‘Cold Case’

Given the U.S. government’s surveillance capabilities – from satellite and aerial photographs to telephonic and electronic intercepts to human sources – American intelligence surely has a good idea what happened on July 17, 2014, when Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 crashed in eastern Ukraine killing all 298 people onboard.

However, the Obama administration failed to make public any intelligence information that would back up its earlier suppositions. In early August, I was told that some U.S. intelligence analysts had begun shifting away from the original scenario blaming the rebels and Russia to one focused more on the possibility that extremist elements of the Ukrainian government were responsible.

A source who was briefed by U.S. intelligence analysts told me that they had found no evidence that the Russian government had given the rebels a BUK missile system. Thus, these analysts concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault and that it appeared Ukrainian government forces were to blame, although apparently a unit operating outside the direct command of Ukraine’s top officials.

The source specifically said the U.S. intelligence evidence did not implicate Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko or Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk but rather suggested an extremist element of the armed forces funded by one of Ukraine’s oligarchs. [See Consortiumnews.com’s “Flight 17 Shoot-down Scenario Shifts”and “Was Putin Targeted for Mid-air Assassination?”]

But then chatter about U.S. intelligence information on the shoot-down faded away. When I recently re-contacted the source who had been briefed by these analysts, the source said their thinking had not changed, except that they believed the missile may have been less sophisticated than a Buk, possibly an SA-6.

What was less clear was whether these analysts represented a consensus view within the U.S. intelligence community or whether they spoke for one position in an ongoing debate. The source also said President Obama was resisting going public with the U.S. intelligence information about the shoot-down because he didn’t feel it was ironclad.

Source

And as I have said before, IHS Jane`s was lying their asses off when saying the Dutch investigators knew already what has happened and had leaked it to the Dutch press...

But they are somehow still trying to pin it on the Russian side relentlessly and also now with the very dubious leaked audio tapes, but at the same time they are still investigating the Russian claims, and the Dutch Chief Investigator wants to travel to Russia to have a look at the Russian evidence which they have formerly requested now...simply because they don`t have "the Russians or Separatists did it case (we only have to believe they have)."

Ukrainian fighter

Netherlands is in charge of the Joint Investigation Team (JIT), an international research group with Australia, Belgium, Malaysia and Ukraine. Due to the strained relations with Russia the investigation is extremely sensitive. Moscow denies it is involved in the plane crash, and states that MH17 is probably shot down by a Ukrainian fighter jet.

This scenario, emphasizes the National Office, is still being investigated. Netherlands has asked Russia a legal request for information. Investigator Fred Westerbeke soon hopes to travel to Moscow to see the Russian evidence surrounding the air crash.

The Prosecution this morning did not comment on the case. The Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs this morning was unable to respond. Russian media, which are controlled by the government, reported earlier that the wire tapped telephone conversations of the SBOE are "forged".

Source

Of course our media needs to mention Russian media is state controlled, something which they never mention about Western media.

At least we have one Dutch journalist who does his job...

Prosecutors’ probe into MH-17 disaster not trustworthy — Dutch journalist

Very Damning if true....

Of course no government will admit this,

I recall reading a twitter post from an account of a Ukranian group that threatened they would get Europe involved in Ukraine by downing a passenger jet before it actually happened.

Does anybody recall that or have a copy save of that post?

Seems what they threatened they actually did.

nvm.

I thought I recalled some of the citizens in the area that said they saw a rocket launched right before the crash. I don't have the news story of that, and in all actuality the possibility they could mistake a ground to air missile and an artillery missile probably fairly easily.

originally posted by: spirit_horse
I thought I recalled some of the citizens in the area that said they saw a rocket launched right before the crash. I don't have the news story of that, and in all actuality the possibility they could mistake a ground to air missile and an artillery missile probably fairly easily.

Probably since they are not trained observers, then again, if your living in a war zone, everything with a smoke trail, any big boom, is dangerous and frightening.

It seems that it is really the US who is the target for the truth here. It seems all the observers are saying that the US has, or should have, satellite imagery of what happened, but no one is going to see it.
Whether that's true I can't say, but if it is, someone knows about it.
Airliners with innocent people getting shot out of the sky transcends all politics, and there should be no concealment, and especially not by any Dutch investigator where the international court of justice resides.
Sad for the families concerned, sad to think it might all come down to money, misinformation and crude politics.....then we are all expected to move on, and STFU.

originally posted by: smurfy
It seems that it is really the US who is the target for the truth here. It seems all the observers are saying that the US has, or should have, satellite imagery of what happened, but no one is going to see it.
Whether that's true I can't say, but if it is, someone knows about it. Airliners with innocent people getting shot out of the sky transcends all politics, and there should be no concealment, and especially not by any Dutch investigator where the international court of justice resides. Sad for the families concerned, sad to think it might all come down to money, misinformation and crude politics.....then we are all expected to move on, and STFU.

Simple solution, stop using all airlines that fly over Ukraine.

Eventually they WILL get the message, from their creditors.

Airlines WILL react and stop flying over those areas, if they do so, the people on the flight should protest and demand they fly away from it.

Make it cost the airlines BIG

Name and shame all pilots and airlines if they ignore it, perhaps the pilots will stop once they get too hot publicity.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Source

Well let's start here shall we, because I found something interesting in your linked source...

This could also shed some new light on the recent dumping of Kolomoisky by the Kiev junta:

deepresource.wordpress.com...

Now with that it is pretty clear the way this source is going with this article.

Source

Consortium news...really?

Source

Must hurt to see that?

Of course our media needs to mention Russian media is state controlled, something which they never mention about Western media.

That's because most of them aren't state run, so that is why they don't mention Western media that way.

I don't need any leaked report to tell me what happened, the silence on MH17 has been deafening, which tells who was responsible for downing the jet. If the evidence actually pointed to Russian involvement we would have heard about it months ago.

So what does the fascist US/Europe leaders do, continue their illegal sanctions against Russia based on what?

originally posted by: spirit_horse
I thought I recalled some of the citizens in the area that said they saw a rocket launched right before the crash. I don't have the news story of that, and in all actuality the possibility they could mistake a ground to air missile and an artillery missile probably fairly easily.

We have been fed with a lot of "eyewitness" accounts, like this...

Did Reuters Falsify The Testimony Of A MH-17 Crash Witness?

The "leaked e-mail" has been a discussion point into what was in it, we had parliamentarian debates about it. To a degree it`s important what is in the e-mail, because it brings the Dutch Government in trouble, "they should have warned about the fly routes and can`t deny they knew about the dangers."

But the other thing about it is, this was a confidential briefing three days prior to it, and by so it discredits the whole "the Separatists were behind it," because it`s not something which you will say in a closed briefing with other countries Diplomats if it wasn`t the case. And when at the same time, Russians aren`t assumed to make such a mistake that easily, the suspicion will go automatically towards the Ukrainians or rogue Ukrainian elements.

It has been confirmed this was the e-mail which was send to the Dutch Government, and it has been debated on Dutch radio recently by the two Dutch Parliamentarians who are most on the case trying to pressure our Government to get answers about what has happened.

a reply to: bullcat

Simple solution, stop using all airlines that fly over Ukraine.

Easier solution...Don't shoot down what you don't know.

Airlines WILL react and stop flying over those areas, if they do so, the people on the flight should protest and demand they fly away from it.

So those passenger's shouldn't have a problem footing the bill when it's time to refuel, as they were the one's wanting to fly around a country instead of over it. Only seems fair.

Make it cost the airlines BIG

You do understand that when the airlines have big costs it reflects back to the consumer in higher ticket prices.

Name and shame all pilots and airlines if they ignore it, perhaps the pilots will stop once they get too hot publicity.

SO you think shaming them because they do their jobs is the way to go. How would you like it if a customer of your employer came to your job or started publicly shaming you for doing your job?

One of the interesting things about this case was that the plane was instructed (by an unknown air controller) to fly that route over the warzone.

a reply to: stormcell

They were on that route from Amsterdam. If you backtrack their course, it was a direct line over Donetsk from the start.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Did Reuters Falsify The Testimony Of A MH-17 Crash Witness?

Zerohedge...Already showed how bias he is about reporting anything factual concerning Ukraine.

Let me guess FortRuss will be making it's appearance soon.

a reply to: stormcell

One of the interesting things about this case was that the plane was instructed (by an unknown air controller) to fly that route over the warzone.

Nope, and Malaysia Airlines has admitted when this happened that they were flying their assigned route as set by Eurocontrol.

EUROCONTROL, the European Organisation for the Safety of Air Navigation, is an intergovernmental Organisation with 41 Member States, committed to building, together with its partners, a Single European Sky that will deliver the air traffic management performance required for the twenty-first century and beyond.

www.eurocontrol.int...

originally posted by: bullcat

originally posted by: smurfy
It seems that it is really the US who is the target for the truth here. It seems all the observers are saying that the US has, or should have, satellite imagery of what happened, but no one is going to see it.
Whether that's true I can't say, but if it is, someone knows about it. Airliners with innocent people getting shot out of the sky transcends all politics, and there should be no concealment, and especially not by any Dutch investigator where the international court of justice resides. Sad for the families concerned, sad to think it might all come down to money, misinformation and crude politics.....then we are all expected to move on, and STFU.

Simple solution, stop using all airlines that fly over Ukraine.

Eventually they WILL get the message, from their creditors.

Airlines WILL react and stop flying over those areas, if they do so, the people on the flight should protest and demand they fly away from it.

Make it cost the airlines BIG

Name and shame all pilots and airlines if they ignore it, perhaps the pilots will stop once they get too hot publicity.

Look, I'm not interested in airlines and big money, and quite frankly should I be a pilot, I would refuse to fly that area anyway for no period of grace has been offered for those people getting blown away on the ground, never mind those in the air.
My thrust here is to try to establish if there are people out there other than the perpetrators that know what happened, and that being the case, the plebs should be told...now, and feck Dutch or German gold that the US haven't given back as requested since 9/11...yet another case of STFU and move on.

a reply to: glend

What silence?

The crash occurred during the Battle in Shakhtarsk Raion, part of the ongoing war in Donbass, in an area controlled by the Donbass People's Militia.[4] According to American and German intelligence sources, the plane was shot down by pro-Russian insurgents using a Buk surface-to-air missile fired from the territory which they controlled.[5] The Russian government blamed the Ukrainian government.[6] The Dutch Safety Board is currently leading an investigation into the incident and issued a preliminary report on 9 September 2014; final accident report is expected in October 2015.[7][8]

Evidence from open sources indicated that Russian forces or their proxies in Ukraine were in control of a Buk missile launcher on 17 July and transported it from Donetsk to Snizhne.[9] US sources attributed the downing to a missile fired from separatist-controlled territory, with their judgement based on sensors that traced the path of the missile, analysis of shrapnel patterns in the wreckage, voice print analysis of separatists' conversations in which they claimed credit for the strike, as well as photos and other data from social media sites.[6]

Immediately after the crash, a post appeared on the VKontakte social media website attributed to Russian Colonel Igor Girkin, leader of the Donbass separatists, claiming responsibility for shooting down an AN-26,[10][11][12] but after it became clear that a civilian aircraft had been shot down, the separatists denied any involvement, and the post was taken down. Russia has said that Ukraine "bears full, total responsibility" for the crash because it happened in Ukrainian airspace.[13] The Ukrainian government states the missile was launched by "Russian professionals and coordinated from Russia".[14][15]

Malaysia said intelligence reports on the downing of MH17 were "pretty conclusive", but more investigation was necessary to be certain that a surface-to-air missile brought down the plane, after which they would look at the criminal side.[16][17][18] The German Federal Intelligence Service reportedly concluded that the plane was shot down by pro-Russian separatists using a captured Ukrainian Buk system.[19][20][21]

CT scans of MH17 victims showed "non-aircraft metal"[22] and on 19 December 2014 the Ukrainian SBU security service said that some of the bodies contained metal fragments that indicated the plane was shot down by a surface-to-air missile.[23] Preliminary evidence from the ongoing Dutch investigation has concluded that the plane was shot down by a Russian unit that was most likely manned by a Russian crew.[24]

Nope there has been no silence. They've held press conferences and made statements as to what they think happened like they always do.

As mentioned in the wiki link above. The final official report isn't expected until October 2015. When aircraft are shot down and a criminal investigations is involved. Investigators In a criminal investigation tend to hold the facts close to the vest until they are ready to be played.

Investigations routinely take up to a year before the final report is issued. So for myself I guess I will wait to hear both official sides to the story then make up my own mind.

Maybe they'll have "8 x 10 color photo glossies with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back explaining each."

" so that we aren't exposed to another case of blind justice"

Paraphrased song verse.

a reply to: Greathouse

This silence...

US Intelligence Stands Pat on MH-17 Shoot-down

So, I sent a follow-up e-mail to Butler saying: “are you telling me that U.S. intelligence has not refined its assessment of what happened to MH-17 since July 22, 2014?”

Her response: “Yes. The assessment is the same.”

Yet, after getting propaganda mileage out of the tragedy – and after I reported on the growing doubts within the U.S. intelligence community about whether the Russians and the rebels were indeed responsible – the Obama administration went silent.

In other words, after U.S. intelligence analysts had time to review the data from spy satellites and various electronic surveillance, including phone intercepts, the Obama administration didn’t retract its initial rush to judgment – tossing blame on Russia and the rebels – but provided no further elaboration either.

This strange behavior reinforces the suspicion that the U.S. government possesses information that contradicts its initial rush to judgment, but senior officials don’t want to correct the record because to do so would embarrass them and weaken the value of the tragedy as a propaganda club to pound the Russians.

Source

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Completely ridiculous response. US intelligence, Dutch intelligence, English intelligence ETC have all said routinely what they think happened.

The proof in the pudding will be when the official report is released in October 2015 if they can't back up the previous statements with pictures, sources and satellite imagery then we will know.

But for you to completely believe one official response without hearing the other, makes your impartiality/motives suspect at best.

I would rather hear both sides of the story and make up my own opinion. But if you insist on only looking at the evidence from one side and forming your opinion, be prepared to be wrong in many of your opinions.