MUFON is a Joke

a reply to: karl 12

MUFON still hasn't released the photographs involved in this case and I have no idea why - apparently a huge, gunmetal gray football-shaped object with flashing blue and red lights released 5 or 6 bright yellow triangular objects (which flew around independently) and then landed on the ice on Lake Erie.

That's a fantastic case. Concerning the photos...

One photo of the incident appears to have been published in Richard Dolan's second addition of UFOs and the National Security State. I wasn't able to find the picture online, but I took a picture (of the picture) in my copy of the book. This case is covered on pages 428-429 if you have the book.

Taken by Tim Keck, who was observing the stars through his telescope when he saw a triangular object. His camera was really bad, and as you can see, he only caught half of the object in the frame. The object is just the little bright light at the left of the picture.

Are there other photos of the object?

originally posted by: Scdfa
a reply to: Arbitrageur

You put "Shostak" and "credibilty" in the same sentence.

Most people do.

Far more than put Greer, Jacobs or any of the folks that despite making outrageous but unsubstantiated claims, you find credible.

a reply to: thesearchfortruth

All I know is that when I alerted MUFON's President to the hoaxes perpetrated by Antonio Paris and his "Aerial Phenomena Investigations Team," he told me that he would take appropriate action. He now appears at UFO events with him. UFOlogy seems to be dominated by publicity seekers and frauds these days.

In MUFON's defense, they are a network of amateurs, many of whom are dedicated and willing to investigate sightings in their area. It was MUFON investigators who proved that the UFOs over Lake Eerie were just commercial jets.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

MUFON -is- a joke.

They claim to support the scientific study of unidentified flying objects but more than a few people have approached them to set up automated, low-light video camera installations to monitor the sky from multiple locations similar to the meteor cameras the American Meteor Society has but these people (one of which is an ATS member) were turned down.

So instead of using 2015 technology to monitor, record and log transient sky activity MUFON instead turns to 1940s investigative methodology and what UFO groups have done since the 1940s: Eyewitness sighting reports which may or may not be reliable or credible and which may or may not have any other useful data than someone saying "I know what i saw and it was not of this Earth!"


Beyond this, anyone who wants a good look into MUFON only need check out their IRS Form 990 tax filings:

Most telling is this sad fact: Their largest use of the money they raise is not used for investigation but rather for their annual storytelling session called "The MUFON Symposium" and their magazine (cough), I mean "journal".....

From this PDF of their 2012 filing....





No scientific organization spends more on their annual meeting and journal than actual scientific research.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: thesearchfortruth

All I know is that when I alerted MUFON's President to the hoaxes perpetrated by Antonio Paris and his "Aerial Phenomena Investigations Team," he told me that he would take appropriate action. He now appears at UFO events with him. UFOlogy seems to be dominated by publicity seekers and frauds these days.

It is clear that MUFON is an entertainment organization -NOT- a scientific one.


They can not even spell the word "phenomenon" correctly.

In MUFON's defense, they are a network of amateurs

That's no excuse. Amateur astronomers still maintain scientific methodology. The amateur meteor community is who makes up the American Meteor Society.

Being amateur scientist doesn't mean you are excused from exercising sound judgement and reasoning.

MUFON of course doesn't care about that. Especially if it gets in the way of a good story, hoax or not.

a reply to: JadeStar

excellent post Jadestar. Kinda sums it all up about MUFON.

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: Scdfa

In the Neil Degrasse Tyson thread. You made the claim that at least 26% to 50% of all alien abductions "are from high rise apartments in New York City"

That is a complete falsehood.

Actually, your quote here is a total falsehood! He said he read something in a magazine and mentioned no such numbers. Its OK, I don't think you do this on purpose. Its getting to the point where every time I post something, I have to go through several posts of how what you think I said is untrue. You aren't the only one. Its a syndrome I suspect.

Actually, by saying "most abductions are from large cities, and most of those are from high rise apartments in NYC,"
Harte is indeed saying that at least 26% are from high rises in NYC. Which isn't true, and there's no evidence to support it.

Where is your evidence that this is not true? I asked for it more than once, you know.

I know you can't "prove" a negative, but you can certainly prove the converse of my claim. Or can't you?

Harte

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

originally posted by: Harte
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you combed through my posts here at ATS but were unable to find a single instance of me posting anything at all that even the most dense idiot could construe in any way as a falsehood.

I can do this because I know that no such post of mine exists here - outside of obviously sarcastic remarks.

originally posted by: Scdfa
It's not hard at all to find you saying something that isn't true, Harte. And it sure doesn't take "the most dense idiot" to know that. When asked for any evidence at all to support your outlandish claim, you had none.

Well welcome to "the most dense idiot" club Scdfa.

Now currently at 4 proud honorary members:

originally posted by: Scdfa
Pure nonsense. That is a complete falsehood and you don't have any evidence to support your outlandish claim.

originally posted by: tanka418
LOL!!!
Seriously man, where did you get that stat?!!? I'm asking just like the others! That stat, is of course completely made up

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
wow...I wonder where you got that stat from

originally posted by: TrueMessiah
Wow some totally asinine claims being made here about abductions

Boy has that claim risen out of the murky depths to haunt you.
No hard feelings but Harte, you set yourself up with that one. lol

LOL

I just wrote what I remembered reading. I can't help it if some folks never bothered to try it before the internet.

Harte

originally posted by: JadeStar
MUFON -is- a joke.

Most telling is this sad fact: Their largest use of the money they raise is not used for investigation but rather for their annual storytelling session called "The MUFON Symposium" and their magazine (cough), I mean "journal".....

Do they have strippers at this Symposium?

I'll go if they have strippers.

Harte

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: JadeStar
MUFON -is- a joke.

Most telling is this sad fact: Their largest use of the money they raise is not used for investigation but rather for their annual storytelling session called "The MUFON Symposium" and their magazine (cough), I mean "journal".....

Do they have strippers at this Symposium?

I'll go if they have strippers.

Harte

They had their symposium 5 minutes from house last summer. I crashed it. I didn't pay any money to see the lectures by Friedman and Howe but it is interesting to do a sweep through and see Friedman's book signing table set up next to the alien crystal table. I was picking my wife up from the airport and made her stop by on the way home because we drove right by it. I saw Linda Howe talking to someone and so I interrupted and asked if I could have my picture with her. She immediately dismissed the person she was talking to and got real close to me. I mean close enough where I felt a little uncomfortable and .., then my wife took the picture. it was pretty funny. No strippers though.

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: Scdfa

In the Neil Degrasse Tyson thread. You made the claim that at least 26% to 50% of all alien abductions "are from high rise apartments in New York City"

That is a complete falsehood.

Actually, your quote here is a total falsehood! He said he read something in a magazine and mentioned no such numbers. Its OK, I don't think you do this on purpose. Its getting to the point where every time I post something, I have to go through several posts of how what you think I said is untrue. You aren't the only one. Its a syndrome I suspect.

Actually, by saying "most abductions are from large cities, and most of those are from high rise apartments in NYC,"
Harte is indeed saying that at least 26% are from high rises in NYC. Which isn't true, and there's no evidence to support it.

Where is your evidence that this is not true? I asked for it more than once, you know.

I know you can't "prove" a negative, but you can certainly prove the converse of my claim. Or can't you?

Harte

The burden of proof lies with you, harte, and you have absolutely none. No evidence of any kind to support your absurd claim.

Let us know when you do.

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

originally posted by: Harte
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you combed through my posts here at ATS but were unable to find a single instance of me posting anything at all that even the most dense idiot could construe in any way as a falsehood.

I can do this because I know that no such post of mine exists here - outside of obviously sarcastic remarks.

originally posted by: Scdfa
It's not hard at all to find you saying something that isn't true, Harte. And it sure doesn't take "the most dense idiot" to know that. When asked for any evidence at all to support your outlandish claim, you had none.

Well welcome to "the most dense idiot" club Scdfa.

Now currently at 4 proud honorary members:

originally posted by: Scdfa
Pure nonsense. That is a complete falsehood and you don't have any evidence to support your outlandish claim.

originally posted by: tanka418
LOL!!!
Seriously man, where did you get that stat?!!? I'm asking just like the others! That stat, is of course completely made up

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
wow...I wonder where you got that stat from

originally posted by: TrueMessiah
Wow some totally asinine claims being made here about abductions

Boy has that claim risen out of the murky depths to haunt you.
No hard feelings but Harte, you set yourself up with that one. lol

LOL

I just wrote what I remembered reading. I can't help it if some folks never bothered to try it before the internet.

Harte

What is even more absurd than your claim, is that you cannot even establish that you are correctly remembering the one magazine article from 40 years ago, upon which your claim is entirely based.

Let us know when you have more than nothing.

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

originally posted by: Harte

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you combed through my posts here at ATS but were unable to find a single instance of me posting anything at all that even the most dense idiot could construe in any way as a falsehood.



I can do this because I know that no such post of mine exists here - outside of obviously sarcastic remarks.

originally posted by: Scdfa

It's not hard at all to find you saying something that isn't true, Harte. And it sure doesn't take "the most dense idiot" to know that. When asked for any evidence at all to support your outlandish claim, you had none.

Well welcome to "the most dense idiot" club Scdfa.

Now currently at 4 proud honorary members:

originally posted by: Scdfa

Pure nonsense. That is a complete falsehood and you don't have any evidence to support your outlandish claim.

originally posted by: tanka418

LOL!!!

Seriously man, where did you get that stat?!!? I'm asking just like the others! That stat, is of course completely made up

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly

wow...I wonder where you got that stat from

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

Wow some totally asinine claims being made here about abductions

Boy has that claim risen out of the murky depths to haunt you.

No hard feelings but Harte, you set yourself up with that one. lol

LOL



I just wrote what I remembered reading. I can't help it if some folks never bothered to try it before the internet.



Harte

What is even more absurd than your claim, is that you cannot even establish that you are correctly remembering the one magazine article from 40 years ago, upon which your claim is entirely based.



Let us know when you have more than nothing.

Why do you avoid addressing your own claim that I am lying? Because you realize that your claim is itself a lie?

Harte

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

originally posted by: Harte

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you combed through my posts here at ATS but were unable to find a single instance of me posting anything at all that even the most dense idiot could construe in any way as a falsehood.



I can do this because I know that no such post of mine exists here - outside of obviously sarcastic remarks.

originally posted by: Scdfa

It's not hard at all to find you saying something that isn't true, Harte. And it sure doesn't take "the most dense idiot" to know that. When asked for any evidence at all to support your outlandish claim, you had none.

Well welcome to "the most dense idiot" club Scdfa.

Now currently at 4 proud honorary members:

originally posted by: Scdfa

Pure nonsense. That is a complete falsehood and you don't have any evidence to support your outlandish claim.

originally posted by: tanka418

LOL!!!

Seriously man, where did you get that stat?!!? I'm asking just like the others! That stat, is of course completely made up

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly

wow...I wonder where you got that stat from

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

Wow some totally asinine claims being made here about abductions

Boy has that claim risen out of the murky depths to haunt you.

No hard feelings but Harte, you set yourself up with that one. lol

LOL



I just wrote what I remembered reading. I can't help it if some folks never bothered to try it before the internet.



Harte

What is even more absurd than your claim, is that you cannot even establish that you are correctly remembering the one magazine article from 40 years ago, upon which your claim is entirely based.



Let us know when you have more than nothing.

Why do you avoid addressing your own claim that I am lying? Because you realize that your claim is itself a lie?

Harte

Careful with your words, be more precise. I never said you were lying. I said you were wrong. Absurdly so. There's a big difference.

The burden of proof lies entirely with you, especially with such a bizarre and completely unfounded claim.

But hey, if as you say, 26% to 50% of all all alien abductions come from NYC high rise buildings, it should be easy for you to find some evidence to back that up, right?

After all, there are thousands of alien abduction accounts on the internet, so just pull some up. Surely, 26% to 50% of those will be from New York City high rise buildings. Heck, just pull up the first ten abductions you see on google, I'm sure between two and five of those are from NY high rises, if your claim is true. but I shouldn't have to tell you how to find evidence, surely your claim is based on evidence, right?

As far as me providing evidence to the contrary, I can point to hundreds of alien abductions and none of them are from NYC. I can't prove a negative, of course, but I can establish that the body of evidence for the past fifty years regarding alien abductions says you are completely wrong.

So let me know when you have a shred of evidence to support your claim.

Let me know when you have something more than, well, nothing.

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

originally posted by: Harte

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you combed through my posts here at ATS but were unable to find a single instance of me posting anything at all that even the most dense idiot could construe in any way as a falsehood.



I can do this because I know that no such post of mine exists here - outside of obviously sarcastic remarks.

originally posted by: Scdfa

It's not hard at all to find you saying something that isn't true, Harte. And it sure doesn't take "the most dense idiot" to know that. When asked for any evidence at all to support your outlandish claim, you had none.

Well welcome to "the most dense idiot" club Scdfa.

Now currently at 4 proud honorary members:

originally posted by: Scdfa

Pure nonsense. That is a complete falsehood and you don't have any evidence to support your outlandish claim.

originally posted by: tanka418

LOL!!!

Seriously man, where did you get that stat?!!? I'm asking just like the others! That stat, is of course completely made up

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly

wow...I wonder where you got that stat from

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

Wow some totally asinine claims being made here about abductions

Boy has that claim risen out of the murky depths to haunt you.

No hard feelings but Harte, you set yourself up with that one. lol

LOL



I just wrote what I remembered reading. I can't help it if some folks never bothered to try it before the internet.



Harte

What is even more absurd than your claim, is that you cannot even establish that you are correctly remembering the one magazine article from 40 years ago, upon which your claim is entirely based.



Let us know when you have more than nothing.

Why do you avoid addressing your own claim that I am lying? Because you realize that your claim is itself a lie?

Harte

Careful with your words, be more precise. I never said you were lying. I said you were wrong. Absurdly so. There's a big difference.

Weaseling now, aren't you.

originally posted by: Scdfa

It's not hard at all to find you saying something that isn't true, Harte.

originally posted by: Scdfa

That is a complete falsehood

Backing away from your claim? I'm not.

Harte

Any credentials of theirs aside, ever since I heard "MUFON" I couldn't help but not take it seriously. Call it immaturity or just my weird sense of humor but I think it's a pretty stupid name.

Now, what it documents is not stupid at all. In fact, I have seen quite a bit of evidence that suggests the validity of the collection of sightings. So it is unfortunate that the organization's name is lacking. Honestly, they should change it to something that has a more positive impact. Unless they wish to discredit their own organization, of course. That would be rather queer of them, don't you think?

a reply to: rukia
how about "The Science Patrol"?

Looking at their annual spend on the symposium makes you wonder just how much they shell out for speakers? Seems like quite a bit.

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Scdfa

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

originally posted by: Harte

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you combed through my posts here at ATS but were unable to find a single instance of me posting anything at all that even the most dense idiot could construe in any way as a falsehood.



I can do this because I know that no such post of mine exists here - outside of obviously sarcastic remarks.

originally posted by: Scdfa

It's not hard at all to find you saying something that isn't true, Harte. And it sure doesn't take "the most dense idiot" to know that. When asked for any evidence at all to support your outlandish claim, you had none.

Well welcome to "the most dense idiot" club Scdfa.

Now currently at 4 proud honorary members:

originally posted by: Scdfa

Pure nonsense. That is a complete falsehood and you don't have any evidence to support your outlandish claim.

originally posted by: tanka418

LOL!!!

Seriously man, where did you get that stat?!!? I'm asking just like the others! That stat, is of course completely made up

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly

wow...I wonder where you got that stat from

originally posted by: TrueMessiah

Wow some totally asinine claims being made here about abductions

Boy has that claim risen out of the murky depths to haunt you.

No hard feelings but Harte, you set yourself up with that one. lol

LOL



I just wrote what I remembered reading. I can't help it if some folks never bothered to try it before the internet.



Harte

What is even more absurd than your claim, is that you cannot even establish that you are correctly remembering the one magazine article from 40 years ago, upon which your claim is entirely based.



Let us know when you have more than nothing.

Why do you avoid addressing your own claim that I am lying? Because you realize that your claim is itself a lie?

Harte

Careful with your words, be more precise. I never said you were lying. I said you were wrong. Absurdly so. There's a big difference.

Weaseling now, aren't you.

originally posted by: Scdfa

It's not hard at all to find you saying something that isn't true, Harte.

originally posted by: Scdfa

That is a complete falsehood

Backing away from your claim? I'm not.

Harte

Definition of Falsehood: The state of being untrue

Words are wonderful things, and they all have definitions, it might help if you learned a few.

Falsehood does not mean you were lying, it means that what you said was untrue. I don't give you enough credit to know you were wrong when you said it. That would mean you were lying. In fact I give you no credit at all, and justifiably so, as you somehow still don't seem to realize you were wrong.

I was correct then, and I'm correct now. I'd imagine I'll be correct the next time you challenge me with something stupid, too.

a reply to: JadeStar

Looking at their annual spend on the symposium makes you wonder just how much they shell out for speakers? Seems like quite a bit.

And to think that a lot of those speakers are people like Jaimie Massaun, John Ventre, Paola Harris (who deals with "contactees") etc...

These people are hurting ufology by promoting hoaxes and continuously conducting biased research. MUFON is paying people who take credibility away from the field. Sad...

originally posted by: [post=19196483]
These people are hurting ufology by promoting hoaxes and continuously conducting biased research. MUFON is paying people who take credibility away from the field. Sad...

That's a good point! Why promote people that ultimately take away from your core beliefs and mission statement? Now THAT'S A CONSPIRACY checking into.