"50 Shades of Grey" and it's Effects on Women.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I think part of the point of this post is that these people aren't carrying on in their bedrooms.

While I partially agree that what goes on in your bedroom is your business, this is outside of it now. Masturbating in theatres and selling sex toys in Target is NOT in anyone's bedroom.

People have been masturbating and more in theaters since there were theaters. One woman gets caught at this movie, and it's a six-alarm blaze on the interwebz.

As for Target selling sex toys? Geez. They sell lube and condoms and personal massagers and have for years. One store displayed them in the wrong place and the world needs to catch fire with [your] moral outrage? Really?

If people were using them in the aisles at Target, that would be another story. One I'm sure security or the police would cope with in a timely manner.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I think part of the point of this post is that these people aren't carrying on in their bedrooms.

While I partially agree that what goes on in your bedroom is your business, this is outside of it now. Masturbating in theatres and selling sex toys in Target is NOT in anyone's bedroom.

If people were using them in the aisles at Target, that would be another story. One I'm sure security or the police would cope with in a timely manner.

Does it count if it's not Target, but Wal-Mart?

Not trying to fan the flames, but I saw this story a few years ago and thought it was hilarious.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Haha, I have a sneaking suspicion that's a more common occurrence at WalMart? Please don't slam me for that

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

Haha, I have a sneaking suspicion that's a more common occurrence at WalMart? Please don't slam me for that

I REALLY hate the thought of this going on in the theater. Kinda makes you want to grab one of those paper toilet-seat protectors out of the bathroom before a show, or better yet bring a can of Lysol.

a reply to: new_here

Maybe I should have said 'some women' but from my experience it's most...

a reply to: Wide-Eyes

I'm not prude I love beating my woman before intercourse.

i think the most important question is:

why are women always crazy about emancipation and equalization..
but then swarn into cinemas to watch a movie that glorifies the opposite?

to me the success of the books and movie tells, women only pretend the need for equalization.
equalization is just a lifestyle in western countries but not what the women want behind their facades.

a reply to: anticitizen

Not all women are feminists. I am tired of reading this argument.

There are large swaths of women who are not independent, not feminists, and pretty misogynistic in general. One could even go as far as to say that they are self-loathing and are perpetuating cycles of abuse witnessed at an early age due to bad male/female role models.

I would even argue most are, but that's for another day.

Either way, in regard to the OP:

This book from the synopsis/reviews I've read(haven't actually read, read the book because I don't wanna) is NOT a good example of the kind of dynamic of some of the rich/educated BDSM circles.

A better example would be the online comic strip "Sunstone" which deals with a lesbian relationship but it's a lot more dynamic and well put together.

It's not my thing but honestly I don't care what people do. As long as they are forcing anyone against their will or raping children or the mentally disabled it's no one's business really.

Edit:

Also, I'm sure someone has already said it...but I think women maturation is very important and if they do it in the theaters...it shouldn't be looked down upon.

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes
a reply to: Cygnis

I don't think I've ever seen so many closed minded people in one thread before. So many prudes. Also, it seems that most of the prudes here are men. Lol. You guys clearly have no idea about women's desires.

I'm a guy, Wide-Eyes, but I understand that everyone has desires, and fantasies. I also understand that not everyone's said desires and fantasies are the same. If I am to accept my own and find acceptance from others, I must also be willing to accept theirs; for it would be hypocritical of me to try and say I am more moral than he or she is.

As to why most men are prudes, and uncomfortable with this, I would venture to be quite an interesting thread of it's own.

originally posted by: anticitizen
i think the most important question is:

why are women always crazy about emancipation and equalization..
but then swarn into cinemas to watch a movie that glorifies the opposite?

to me the success of the books and movie tells, women only pretend the need for equalization.
equalization is just a lifestyle in western countries but not what the women want behind their facades.

I suppose you would have to ask the reverse question then. Why do men go see dominatrix?

One of the many fantasies out there, is a loss of being in control. Some even crave it, on a consensual basis. The fantasy comes in, tho, where people fantasies about being taken advantage of, against their will.

My problem with this movie is that it is porn, due to the subject matter (sexual violence) and belongs in a porn movie theater, not a mainstream movie theater where kids and teens can sneak in and watch it. I suspect it has already been watched by thousands of kids and teens. It says something terrible about our culture that we allow a movie like this to be easily accessible to impressionable kids and teens. I guess people are so focused on their genitalia that they have forgotten what is really important in this life- to be a good person and to treat other people with kindness. This movie is the anti-thesis of the goals our species needs to be striving toward.

Sal

a reply to: ghostrager

a reply to: ~Lucidity

I'm just pointing out that some things aren't things young children need to see.

Of course, you disagree because you have liberated children who masturbate as soon as you can teach them, but not everyone does? Am I reading that right?

This goes back to decency. You do it your way; I do it mine. But, because of the nature of the subject, it's better in general if we keep it as private as possible so that no one offends. I don't know what you may or may not want your family exposed to and when. You don't know the same about mine.

Simple respect and decency should dictate that we keep things in-house and not out in public for this reason. There is nothing at all wrong with keeping some things mostly to ourselves and our most intimate associates. That doesn't mean we are assigning those things shame only recognizing that not everyone handles those subjects in that same way.

originally posted by: ketsuko

Of course, you disagree because you have liberated children who masturbate as soon as you can teach them, but not everyone does? Am I reading that right?

No. And the fact that you even typed it? Well I can't and won't go there.

You act as if you've never made out in a theater or in a car. And as if seeing something that a "child" probably wouldn't either notice or ask about until someone made a big deal about it.

Keep sheltering and let the rest of us live, mkay?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ~Lucidity

This goes back to decency. You do it your way; I do it mine. But, because of the nature of the subject, it's better in general if we keep it as private as possible so that no one offends. I don't know what you may or may not want your family exposed to and when. You don't know the same about mine.

Simple respect and decency should dictate that we keep things in-house and not out in public for this reason. There is nothing at all wrong with keeping some things mostly to ourselves and our most intimate associates. That doesn't mean we are assigning those things shame only recognizing that not everyone handles those subjects in that same way.

I'm ignoring the first part of your post, just because I really can't believe you would make such a comment.. So, I'll pretend you didn't.

As to the rest of your comment, I'd have to say, this is the same sort of mentality that my grandmother had.. Instead of saying "pregnant" is was referred to as "She's that way".. Passing gas or farts were referred to as "bottom burps". If you would mention anything even semi-scandalous, you were asked to leave. There was no "Birds n bees" type conversations in that house. The lines of humor were so stringent and dry, it was sort'a sad.

This is how skeletons become hidden in closets, and abuses among family members is perpetrated for the longest times. Some things aren't talked about, because it's taboo. This allows the abusive uncle to be able to keep his niece quiet, and not saying anything "because it's a special secret", and bad things might happen..

In that house-hold, of my grandmother, there was a lot of abuse spread around among the kids, and the wife, because "It just wasn't acceptable to talk about, and if it's ignored, and kept secret, it'll go away". "It's inappropriate to talk about that, it's not proper.".

The more things are brought to light, the more people can uncover what should be normal, and what isn't normal. Just because YOU put a pair of blinders on someone and dictate to them what is normal, doesn't mean they won't eventually take them off, and wonder why they were sheltered so heavily. Or go comletely the opposite way, from what you taught completely, as they resent you.

Everything can be explained in a mature, educational manor, making it less "taboo", if handled in a mature manner, without embarrassment. (Having had my kids catch the wife and I in the middle of activities, it's the only real solution, along side, reaffirming WHY YOU KNOCK before walking through a closed door to someone's bedroom. /cough).

Also a little common sense goes a long way. No, kids shouldn't see this movie, but, if your kids are out running the streets, or are unsupervised, then I imagine they might get into more trouble then seeing something a little on the naughty side. The world won't end, but it might press on your precious sensibilities.

Otherwise, if you don't like such things, simply don't look. Plain and simple. The world will not conform to your sensibilities, but doesn't mean you have to engage in them. This is where personal morals, and understanding that you wish to be an island among the heathen sexual deviants, is your own choice. No one is forcing you to do anything, it is your own choice if you look, but don't complain if you see something that offends you..

originally posted by: anticitizen
i think the most important question is:

why are women always crazy about emancipation and equalization..
but then swarn into cinemas to watch a movie that glorifies the opposite?

to me the success of the books and movie tells, women only pretend the need for equalization.
equalization is just a lifestyle in western countries but not what the women want behind their facades.

I perceive many men speaking like this, lumping together all women as feminists.. which of course will make women look contradicting... but the truth is, that is because not all women are feminists.

From what I can see, the feminists are the most outspoken against this film and book.

I continue to uphold the opinion that "equalization" IS the draw of this story- because by the end of the third book, each partner has become equally powerful, in regards to each other as well as in the exterior world. Thats the fantasy and idealized outcome of relationships for many women. That each partner "soak up" some of the others personalities, so that they fill in the spaces they were lacking, and cease to be extremes.

The feminists tend to not see as well the dynamics of relationship in developing self mastership and personal power (IMO).
They seem to think women will just have that emerge from them if the society and other men remove the external blockages or limits. I think those limits were removed already. What the women found is that self mastery and personal power doesn't just come out on it's own- it is a skill, that must be learned and developed.

Men have known this- they know that master/student, hierarchial relationships are important in learning this. They got into military, they had such relations with father figures, even in groups of male friends.

The dominant/submissive (master/student) phase is just a PHASE or step along the path of self mastership and personal power. There is also phases where the student must oppose and rebel against the master, in order to achieve their own independence (and this too, happens in the books).

I don't know, my mother was a feminist in the 70's, and despite all her good intents, she seemed to think power would just emerge like magic from her once the opportunities to express it were open. Never happened. She was under the impression that power was given to men from the society, not worked on hard to develop through the challenges they faced amongst each other.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ghostrager
No, I haven't read the books or seen the movie...

...

It was absolutely shocking to see how women are responding to this filth.

So you did not either read the book or see the film but someone determined, in your righteous and puritanical indignation, that it is 'filth'?

Who cares what adults do in their bedroom?

Why are you the arbiter of appropriateness of other's behavior that has no affect on you at all?

I agree with this post - however I find it odd how some feminists support this movie, although not surprisingly a lot of them are against it!

Feminists Boycot 50 Shades of Grey

The point in question is the man's dominance of the woman. She signs a contract to be his sex slave, basically. I could see something like this actually happening in nations where a woman needs a way out of poverty, and it is scary. Although I didn't read the book or see the movie, I just read about it.

originally posted by: darkbake


The point in question is the man's dominance of the woman. She signs a contract to be his sex slave, basically. I could see something like this actually happening in nations where a woman needs a way out of poverty, and it is scary. Although I didn't read the book or see the movie, I just read about it.

There are details in there, that in my mind, made all the difference in how it was seen.

The contract was not a one way thing. He had to commit to certain things- like that if she ever used the special code to stop anything, he had to stop immediately, no matter what they were in the middle of.
(I think a lot of women would like to have that kind of commitment from a man).

Also, part of the agreement was that she would respect herself and her body. That she would eat healthy, get regular exercise, get any medical or dental care she needs at the slightest sign of it and not over stress herself.
(some women only find the motivation to care for themselves when it is important to another- like when they become a mother for example. )

Without having read the book, one might not know that the idea of sex slave seems slightly off, because the acts were mostly directed towards HER pleasure. (whereas, in the term sex slave, we imagine a sort of taking of pleasure with no concern or thought towards the other).

In a sense, this contract gave her permission- no, obligation- to be egotistical, to think of herself, above all others. It gave her a way out of the typical role of self sacrificing caretaker of others (the superhero mother, career, wife) that so many women find themselves stuck in, unable to think of their own physical needs amongst all that.

originally posted by: darkbake

I agree with this post - however I find it odd how some feminists support this movie, although not surprisingly a lot of them are against it!

That was the gist of the review Railgun and Lucidity were laughing about earlier. It basically says that Ana is written as being a character knowingly involved in an abusive relationship and displays all the clichés that someone in that type of relationship shows, however the author seems to be glorifying it as erotic.

a reply to: SallieSunshine

My problem with this movie is that it is porn, due to the subject matter (sexual violence) and belongs in a porn movie theater, not a mainstream movie theater where kids and teens can sneak in and watch it

I'm going to let my 3-year-old daughter watch it, and you can't do anything about it.