State Department wants Jobs for Jihadis, no, not a joke; launches #Diplomacy Effort

a reply to: IAMTAT

I guess a corollary to that is how much of this do we watch happen? How many people do we watch them slaughter like this?

Imagine if this were the late '30s and we were watching people being rounded up and loaded into the cars for their trips to the ovens. Would we do anything about it? How long would we watch it expand before we admitted it was a very real problem that needed to be confronted?

Not only that, but there are some nations that have nukes in that region - Pakistan being one. Do they become our problem should they take over Pakistan?

What if they do topple Saudi Arabia and take over Islam's highest holy site? Do they become a problem then? Think about the recruiting took that would become. Surely Allah would not allow Mecca to fall if he did not favor their cause ...

a reply to: IAMTAT

when they are over running the borders. the use civilian population represents the worlds largest standing army. it just won't happen.

the string of events that gave rise to ISIS begins with US intervention in the region.

as a general rule, i only interact with people willing to interact with me. it doesn't really seem like folks in that area are very interested in interacting with the US. No means no, right? So why have we continued to force ourselves into the region?

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

So what if ISIS comes here? And how much of an attack would it take then?

I thought 9/11 was pretty bad, but apparently it wasn't enough.

Also you are factoring without the attitude of religious crusade into this. They believe that you interact with them negatively simply by not professing to the right god in the right way. There will be no peace until all the world is for Allah.

a reply to: ketsuko

Is that a real question?

ISIS isn't coming to the US to invade and subdue us. They don't hate you for your beliefs. Sure, that may be is flashed all over the place.

They hate you because you don't reign in your government, and it seriously ruining the lives of everyone in the region. It isn't like there is a whole subcontinent of psychopaths that are beating their own beaches to get to the US and swarm us in some lemmingesque attempt at jihad. The one thing I have learned on ATS if nothing else: people in other nations tend to be just like us: reasonable people who think the US government is ruining their lives.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

people in other nations tend to be just like us

isis is an offshoot of al ciaduh, al ciaduh is an offshoot of the muslim brotherhood, the muslim brotherhood was created by the oss. The oss created the arab fascist muslim brotherhood to counterbalance the arab communists. This is just an extension of the same war between east and west that began 60+ years ago.

Debating the actual issue will lead to actual solutions, other than perpetual war for profits or nuclear extinction. Your choice.

a reply to: Anyafaj
Giving them jobs is a great idea......but don't ever try to fire them!

Can you imagine dealing with a disgruntled ex-Islamic terrorist? Suddenly is Allahu Akbar this and Allahu Akbar that. Maybe not such a good idea after all.

a reply to: Anyafaj

When I read this I about fell over.I guess our poor and destitute need to chop off peoples heads and burn them to death to get help? Are you kidding me?

This government needs to go. This is just beyond anything reasonable.

Is the S.E.I.U. listening?

a reply to: GodEmperor

The actual issue that I keep hearing coming from angry people in the middle east: America, stop meddling

I have seen folks in this thread say stuff like, "If they want a better country its up to them to make it". But for that to happen, the people would have to take sticks and stones to fight against their government, which is armed with our wholesale military gear.

All the other stuff about them hating our freedom, or hating our religion, or any other number of meme's meant to vilify the enemy....that is all secondary or tertiary to the issue that we keep hearing (and ignoring): they don't want our brand of freedom there, and would rather us just go away.

if a discussion about the "actual issue" doesn't include that...then it's not much of a discussion.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: ketsuko

Is that a real question?

ISIS isn't coming to the US to invade and subdue us. They don't hate you for your beliefs. Sure, that may be is flashed all over the place.

They hate you because you don't reign in your government, and it seriously ruining the lives of everyone in the region. It isn't like there is a whole subcontinent of psychopaths that are beating their own beaches to get to the US and swarm us in some lemmingesque attempt at jihad. The one thing I have learned on ATS if nothing else: people in other nations tend to be just like us: reasonable people who think the US government is ruining their lives.

I'd rethink that "They're not coming to America" bit. They're actively trying to come here. There have already been lone wolf attacks to impress IS, including one guy who beheaded his coworker in OK, the guy in NYC who went after cops with a machete or hatchet if I recall.

Thread


(Link posted at the end of January)
ISIS threatened to behead Obama and turn US into Muslim Province

Islamic State militants have threatened to behead Barack Obama and turn the U.S. into a Muslim province in the latest gruesome video to emerge from their self-styled caliphate.

The footage shows a black-clad jihadist standing over a Kurdish soldier who, in a sickening climax to the video, has his head cut off.

Before the hostage is executed, the ISIS fighter warns the U.S. president: 'Know, oh Obama, that we will reach America.

'Know also that we will cut off your head in the White House and transform America into a Muslim province.'

originally posted by: Sparky63
a reply to: Anyafaj
Giving them jobs is a great idea......but don't ever try to fire them!

Can you imagine dealing with a disgruntled ex-Islamic terrorist? Suddenly is Allahu Akbar this and Allahu Akbar that. Maybe not such a good idea after all.

Gives 'Workplace Violence' a whole new meaning.

...on second thought, Obama already calls Islamic terrorism workplace violence; what a visionary.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Wrong, the issue is world war between the east and west. The middle east is a battleground, you can whine about the US just going away, and letting the east conquer the world instead of us. I am open to debate on how exactly the US achieves world domination, because if we don't someone else will. What do you say, comrade?

originally posted by: GodEmperor
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

The middle east is a battleground, you can whine about the US just going away, and letting the east conquer the world instead of us. I am open to debate on how exactly the US achieves world domination, because if we don't someone else will.

I think the above represents just how divergent our two worldviews are, and should likely herald the sunset of this conversation with me as a participant.

a reply to: Anyafaj

Kind of a 'logical' progression for the left. First, legalize illegals to work, then PAY employers 3000 dollars for every 'illegal' hired.

Now Isis needs jobs as well. Perfectly logical...

For ISIS specifically, I don't see this working. They're too radicalized at this point and I don't think job opportunities or any other more "diplomatic" approaches are going to stop them. I hate rooting for war and killing, but if we stand idly by, it doesn't seem that they're going to stop slaughtering innocent people, so I think we need to intervene with force. Unfortunately.

On the other hand, for a more general long-term approach, I think this idea actually has some merits. We've been more-or-less at war in the middle east, or at least with certain factions of the middle east, for the better part of 15 years now. It doesn't seem to be creating the peace or stability that we hoped it would. So I'm all for trying new approaches. Maybe if people had more opportunities, we'd start to see a gradual decline in organized terrorism. Or intervention besides military occupation might start to gradually change people's perception of the west.

Of course, the flip side is that it might not work. But I think we've already *proven* that our current strategy isn't working, so why not at least explore other options? I think a lot of people will say that a legit "other option" is leaving them to themselves, which also has merit. But if we decide to help, it wouldn't hurt to think outside the box of military involvement, IMO.

Having paid attention to what all is going on and giving this some thought the following can be stated:

Both sides are correct and incorrect on how to handle ISIS and this entire situation. And here is the breakdown of such:

ISIS started from a civil war, and the mess that was created by the USA and other western powers, and countries, not in the area, interfering with the countries over there. We have no clue about what motivates them beyond that they are all followers of Islam. This started with the Arab Spring and then got into full movement with the civil war in Syria. ISIS does stand for the Islamic State of Syria and Iraq. Or is it ISIL, the Islamic state of Syria and Levant? There is a big difference between those 2, as one is only 2 countries, and the Levant, well that is a bigger part of the world, going from Turkey all of the way down to Egypt, encompassing the following countries: Cyprus, Hatay, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, Iraq, Sinai, Egypt and Turkey.
From the get go, with the rise of ISIS when it started coming out of Syria, it was involved in a civil war. The problem has been 2 things, one is that people kept supplying weapons to both sides, and ultimately manpower as well. And there is one of the main problems.
People going into the middle of the Civil war to fight for one side or the other, they are coming from around the world to join the fight, thinking it is a grand thing, yet the reason why they are going should also be noted and ultimately that is where the State Department is true. Many of these people fighting are looking for an idea, a sense of belonging. The countries that they are coming from are not providing them with that sense of being, of belonging, they are lacking somehow and think that by marching off to war, they will find it. Those who would call to fight against ISIS are making a mistake cause the one thing that no one has figured out on how to do is how to kill an ideal. It is the message that is attracting people and they are willing to leave everything behind for the sake of that idea.

The only real way to stop this would be to first stop all travel to that part of the world, to isolate it from the rest of the world, that means not letting people travel into that region. You leave it, to get away from the fighting, you are out until the fighting has stopped. And as sad as it is, stopping the flow of weapons and arms into the region as well. But isolating this to Syria and not letting people or arms in, it contains it and lets them fight it out without anyone else gets involved. But have the world stand by to help clean up the mess. When it comes to those traveling there to join the fight, give them jobs, yes, give them something to believe that will counter the message that ISIS is sending out.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Indigo5

So what was the excuse of the original Muslims who spread their religion by the sword?

You can't be that ignorant of history?

The "original Christians" spread their religion by the sword as well? Or do you not count the 9 Crusades over 200 years?

There was no "excuse" then or now..

There is however a difference in the current state of Western Civilization and the current state of the Middle East.

Part of that difference has to do with Western Civilization exploiting the Middle East...Propping up Royal Dictators, functioning as their "security guards" furthering economic policy there that affords a very small segment of the population to live in luxury and drive Mercedes around and hang out in Hookah bars, while the vast majority of the population has grown up in abject poverty and violence to emerge into early adulthood with ZERO opportunities.

Just wildly ignorant that some think we can simply bomb our way out of this. We need to think about stopping the flow of new recruits as well as killing the psychopaths we already have...otherwise it is a never ending war.

originally posted by: HUMBLEONE
We need to chemtrail millions of gallons of Haldol above the DC metro area to halt this mass psychosis called the federal government. These people are floridly psychotic. They are from another dimension. The old vibration is their home and we are moving on to the new one, higher, lighter and based on Love and cooperation. We need to slow down the spread of this virus among the population of the ignorant so that we may shove off to the new shore before this place crumbles before our eyes and turns into a complete hell hole

So is it more likely that there is this mass psychosis OR is it more likely that the government is doing EXACTLY as it's corporate masters dictate? Can't really explain that to the public and come up with these ridiculous things talking points.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Indigo5

Early Catholic church, which was and is not true Christianity, was responsible for the crusades. Early Christians shared the word of salvation through faith on Christ's finished work on the cross, burial and resurrection. This was done until 315AD when Constantine gave power to the Catholic church over all other Christian groups and the catholic church wiped out all Christian opposition and destroyed all the bibles of the day and forced the latin vulgate on the world by sword.

a reply to: Indigo5

The original Christians were oppressed and martyred by the Roman Empire. I'm not sure where they were getting their swords from. It wasn't until Constantine that they had any kind of power base to use for any sword spreading and that was hundreds of years after they became a religion. Please don't call someone ignorant until you get your own facts right.