The book of Daniel. My take is that it's future events.

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: jmdewey60

I sent you a message..

*psssst* secrets

As far as nation of Israel. The fact of the matter is that it happened. It doesn't matter if you think the people who live there are or aren't real Jews or not. The very establishment of the nation is a sign of possible prophetic fulfillment.

Ask yourself: Does it matter how a prophecy is fulfilled? Something like the establishment of a nation is hardly something that can easily be counterfeited, and when it comes to the parable of the fig tree ... well, I don't see that Jesus claims anything other than that the tree gets leaves. He doesn't describe it bearing fruit to know what kind of harvest it might bear. Only that we are to watch for it to begin to show life.

It sounds to me like simply having a nation called Israel would be fulfillment enough with no indication of what kind of fruit that nation bears.

a reply to: ketsuko

your reasoning would cause prophecy to be deflected to a individual that had the legal name of Beast or even AntiChrist... and the predictions/prophecies would have already been 'spent' on fulfillment before the actual Beast or AntiChrist actually appeared


the Name Israel was co-opted by the Zionist Jews desiring a regathered Home-Land because they had the idea of gaining worldwide sympathy and friendship from every faith on the Earth but Islam... and were secretly seeking to co-opt the blessings for the 'Israel' because there were no promises for a regathered Judah...
Ersatz Israel is the reality, but not the focus of the thread.

www.differencebetween.net...

answers.yahoo.com...;_ylt=AwrBT9eCxsZUa2cAJ5dXNyoA;_ylu=X3o'___'EzYjBmNmlpBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDIyNl8x?qid=200 60719185143AAhjev5

Judea (Latin: Iudaea) = the Roman province in Palestina where the Jews (descendants of Judah) lived after the Babylonian deportation

the vision of the Goat-v-Ram given to Daniel was about that era in history and in the future... when the signs in the Sun-Moon-Stars .... which are the Year of the Horse in 2014 & the heavenly signs -> 4 blood-moon tetrad... which starts the unsealing of the Scroll with 7 seals (end-time) era & the release of the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse...
And 2015, Year of the Goat-Ram combined... is the sign of replaying the Greek-MedePersian change of Empire leadership back in the vision of Daniel somewhere around his era ~500BCE

•He was given an interpretation of a dream he had where he saw a ram and goat. They represented the then-future empires of Persia, Macedonia (under Alexander the Great) and the four smaller kingdoms created after Alexander's death (chapter 8).

•He received the 'seventy weeks' prophecy that foretells the birth of Jesus and his death in 30 A.D. on a Wednesday (chapter 9).


•He received a prophecy concerning the end time King of the North and South - the Bible's longest prophecy (chapter 10-12).

these are all 'future' prophecies...

if Ersatz Israel is legit (as you protest) then they have until the passing of that generation (1948-2068) for all the Day-of-the-Lord events to be accomplished

a reply to: St Udio

The promise that when we see it, we know the time is coming still holds. It's simply a sign and a mechanism for God's further work. The excitement over the nation is that we know the generation born at its birth will not pass before we see the end.

It signals that now is about the time because we are reaching the length of that generation. 1948 + 70 years (the rough time of a generation) = 2018 or thereabouts. We are right at that time depending on how long you take a generation to be. It matches up with the signs in the Heavens. It is but another sign.

a reply to: St Udio

if Ersatz Israel is legit (as you protest) then they have until the passing of that generation (1948-2068) for all the Day-of-the-Lord events to be accomplished

I'm thinking it's a generation from 1967. Jerusalem wasn't the capital yet in 1948.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

*psssst* secrets

No, just a question on an obscure detail in Revelation.

Revelation 17:3
Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.
(2011 NIV)

Revelation 18:2
With a mighty voice he shouted: "'Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!' She has become a dwelling for demons and a haunt for every impure spirit, a haunt for every unclean bird, a haunt for every unclean and detestable animal.
(2011 NIV)

John sees the beast in the wilderness with a representation of Babylon being so much wickedness, then Babylon is portrayed as a desolation, a virtual wilderness from a formerly populous place, which then is a haunt for demons.

I think that this is connected to the binding of Satan in Revelation 20:1-2,

And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain.
He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
(2011 NIV)

Where the beast that the woman (Babylon) rides on is left in the ruins of the fallen and desolate city that he ended up destroying through his corrupting influence.
This is the same thing, I think, as what is described as the old dragon's binding, that he is left in the wilderness as the anti-type of the scapegoat left to Azazel in the Levitical judgment and atonement system.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

It could be that too.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: NOTurTypical

*psssst* secrets

No, just a question on an obscure detail in Revelation.

I was just having fun. Nothing more.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Everyone always overlooks the prophecy relating to the Archangel Michael. People will know the 'end' (the great changing, the end of the age) is near when Michael is bodily raised upon the Earth to deal with the enemies of truth.

As with many Biblical revelations, Daniel is encoded as a multidimensional, almost holographic text, with the numerology, and even the meaning of the individual letters, carrying encoded messages within, like Russian nesting dolls. This is why we are told that the Word will endure forever - you can keep digging, and you will keep finding meaning.

In terms of 'popular apocalypse' theories, my personal belief is that we will see the apocalypse around the time mainstream science reaches for the AI singularity, and it unleashes havoc, like a rebellious Frankenstein's monster. I believe we are very close to attaining the singularity, and additional events in the world appear to demonstrate that there is a totally unsustainable demarcation between the oligarchs and the peasants - one which cannot be allowed to continue, in terms of justice. When Jesus prophesied about wars, rumours of wars, and great disasters, people often criticise the vagueness of the prediction. I believe I know the meaning of the prophecy - he was referring to the time when these things will be ARTIFICIALLY MANIPULATED AND CREATED by mankind, in terms of black ops technology, falseflags in abundance, and so forth. Again, it seems we are getting close.

I believe the 'time of trouble, the likes of which has never been seen on Earth before, nor ever will be seen afterwards' involves a balancing of forces to create a level playing field, where truth is known by all, when choices can be made, and battle lines drawn - in light of all knowledge concerning the truth.

The demons refer to Michael as the 'bringer of evil', but as we all know, they lie. Michael comes to create a level playing field, and remove the blindfolds that have been imposed by the Fourth Reich, so that people can make their own determinations in light of the truth.

My humble opinion.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Well if a prophecy failed to come to pass that would make God a liar. And besides that, He said not one word He spoke will return to Him void:

"So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it." ~ Isaiah 55:11

If God gave a prophecy to a prophet it will come to pass.

Anything that was an actual prophecy that was a prediction that something in particular was to happen, was already been fulfilled.
A lot of stuff in the Old Testament writings that some people think are that sort of thing, aren't, but are stories to express certain concepts or feelings about situations they are in and how they think they could be better.
It is just ridiculous to take every word from the Old Testament and say that it is to be taken literally and that it somehow has to happen.

Anyway, if you are saying that the Law has to be followed until all those things happen, then you should be following all those Old Testament laws, and plan on doing that forever since none of those things are going to ever happen.

a reply to: ketsuko

It sounds to me like simply having a nation called Israel would be fulfillment enough with no indication of what kind of fruit that nation bears.

What prophecy?
The fig tree in the gospel story died, with no further explanation of anything like it ever coming back to life.

a reply to: jmdewey60

Anything that was an actual prophecy that was a prediction that something in particular was to happen, was already been fulfilled.

Wholly untrue. There are almost 1,800 places in the OT where it speaks of a literal reign of Christ from the throne of David. Ezekiel 38 and 39 have not happened.

It is just ridiculous to take every word from the Old Testament and say that it is to be taken literally and that it somehow has to happen.

That idea came from Origen and was taken to an extreme by Augustine. There are literary devices used, but God meant exactly what He said. And Jesus took it very literally, so therefore so do I.

Anyway, if you are saying that the Law has to be followed until all those things happen, then you should be following all those Old Testament laws, and plan on doing that forever since none of those things are going to ever happen.

I never said any such thing. If you scroll up I said that the heresy that Christians must be circumcised and must follow the Mosaic Law was refuted in Acts chapter 15.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Ezekiel 38 and 39 have not happened.

And so they never will because they are not prophetic in the sense of predicting ahead of time things that are going to come to pass.
That would fit into the group of stories I was talking about which is an expression of the unhappiness with the way things turned out, first, the defeat at the hands of the Babylonians, and second, the inferior quality of the restoration afterwards.
What it does is retell the story but making it work out the way that the writer wished it had, instead of how it really did.

There are literary devices used, but God meant exactly what He said.

One of those "literary devices" being saying that God said so.

And Jesus took it very literally, so therefore so do I.

Jesus (or any New Testament writer) never quoted from the Book of Ezekiel. Jesus only quoted pieces of the Old Testament that he felt were inspired to be included so it would be describing certain things about him.

I never said any such thing.

I think that you were just trying to repeat something you had heard on a YouTube video but you didn't really have it sorted out in your head how to say it, and just wrote off the top of your head hoping it would come out making sense, and when caught, skirt the issue and deflect rather than admitting to misspeaking.

a reply to: jmdewey60

I think that you were just trying to repeat something you had heard on a YouTube video

No, scroll up. I copy/pasted from Acts 15.