The book of Daniel. My take is that it's future events.

I saw the thread on The Book of Daniel Finally Being Unsealed and wanted to respond but it's been closed. So. I'm making my own thread. And my opinion is this. The prophesies of Daniel are future and current event. So here is my explanation on what is going on.


To start with the major prophesies in Daniel have the following disclaimers incorporated into them.

Daniel 2.
28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days.

Daniel 8.
19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

Daniel 10.
14 Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.

Daniel 11.
6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm:

40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

Daniel 12.
8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.


The problem with Daniel's prophesies is that they are supposed to happen in a period of time he called the time of the end/end of years/latter days. So what are the latter days? for that you need to look at the 70 week prophesy of Daniel 9.

Daniel 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

70 weeks of years or 490 years divided up as 7 weeks or 49 years, 62 weeks or 434 years, and 1 week of 7 years. But then the questions are the last days the entire 70 weeks or the 1 week? And did the 1 week ever consummate?

And after looking at the evidence here are the answers. The last days are the 70th week. And NO, it hasn't consummated yet.

And the reason is this. I found a top level Leviticus 26 curse in the bible that started in the first century AD. During the 69th week. And it's still running. Which would mean the 70th week never happened. It has to run at the end of the curse.

Or put another way the prophesies of Daniel are supposed to fit inside another prophesy. The day of Jezreel prophesy of Hosea. To summarize it quickly Hosea states this. There would come a day that Israel and Judah would be destroyed and the people killed or exiled. But then another day would come and the nation of Israel would be restored to it's former glory under Solomon.

But in chap. 6 we're given the timeframe of the curse.

1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

2nd Peter 3
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The curse was supposed to be 2000 years long. Followed by a 1000 year "day of Jezreel".

Then my question was "Why the curse?" And I found that in Malachi 4 and Matthew 17.

Malachi 4
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Matthew 17
10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

According to the books of Zechariah and Malachi the Jews of the first century AD were expecting either 3 or 4 messiahs. The two branches of Zechariah also called the messengers of Malachi, the Lord, and Elijah the prophet. But by killing John the Baptist they screwed up the first century Apocalypse. And put it on a 2000 year detour. And BTW, there is still one messiah to go.

interesting, bump

Bumpty bump bump ....As a side note to the chariots in Daniels vision ,the Book of Revelation uses a word for chariot but the difference is in how many wheels it has . eta I think that Daniels prophecy to be considered legitimate had to have some elements of prophecy for their time frame as well to be verified at the time to put the Book into the cannon .The breakup and dividing of the kingdom of Alexander was probably it .

a reply to: ntech

There is only one Messiah, and that is Jesus. He was supposed to have died at the end of the 62nd week (37 AD), but was executed 7 years early at the end of the 61st week (30 AD). Since the Church is indwelt with Christ, and represents Him as His body on Earth, technically, the Church is standing in for the Messiah. So, time has been extended so far by 1,986 years. When the Church is finally cut off by the Rapture, it will fulfill Daniel's 62nd week....the Messiah (represended by the Body of Christ) being cut off "after the 62 weeks".

a reply to: ntech

But then the questions are the last days the entire 70 weeks or the 1 week? And did the 1 week ever consummate?

That prophecy was only about the Jews and the city of Jerusalem, there has been a pause between the 69th and 70th week. It says the church dispensation was hidden from the OT prophets.

The 7 year tribulation period is often referred to as the "70th week of Daniel".

a reply to: ntech

I don't think that the book of Daniel is fully unsealed. For example
there isn't really a consensus on Daniel 11 and 12.
Revelation .5 and 6 refer to the unsealing of the Book of daniel.
(No other book is sealed in the Bible)
The book of Revelation is almost completely made of references to
other verses throughout the Bible.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

To respond to your post. The term Messiah has several definitions. See the link.

Messiah definition

The proper term is that there is only one Saviour. But there can be many Messiahs. And according to the books of Zechariah and Malachi there was supposed to be 3 or 4 Messiahs in the first century. The book of Malachi specifies that Elijah the prophet was supposed to show up. Also it says this.

Malachi 3
1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

The Lord and his 2 messengers were supposed to show up. Jesus Christ appearing at the temple alone was wrong. At the very least it should have been Jesus Christ and the messenger of the covenant.

Now the book of Zechariah adds some more light on the subject here. In Zechariah 4 it is mentioned that the Lord has 2 anointed ones. The Branches. It makes sense that the messengers and the Branches are the same persons. And in Zechariah 6 it's mentioned that each branch is predicted to build a temple to the Lord. Also as a cross-reference to Revelation 11 the 2 witnesses are also referred to as olive trees and candlesticks. They are the Branches of Zechariah. There is another Messiah due and he's a Branch and a Witness of Revelation.

Now speaking of the Church age, I do believe this curse is what's giving us that. The term "Day of Jezreel" appears to be another name for the 1000 year reign of the saints of Revelation. Which would mean the Apocalypse must happen before the curse runs out. My best guess for it running out is sometime between 2025 to 2028.

Also something I realized here is this. I believe this curse is the restrainer referred to by Paul in 2nd Thessalonians 2. It would seem to me that ending the curse is key to allowing the rapture and the rest of it. And it appears that ending the curse is extremely simple to do.

a reply to: ntech

1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. 2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

Im not sure this is a reference to 2,000 years. The way I see it, its a prophecy stating that Israel will be resurrected 3 days after Jesus' return...the same time-frame for His own resurrection.

I think Jesus is returning in 2023. If Im correct, that places the rapture in 2016, making the Church Age 1,988 years long. That isnt exactly 2,000 years.

Again, the reason for the 1,988 year delay is because Jesus was killed at the end of the 61st week rather than the 62nd week, so Jesus established the Church as His body on earth. The rapture will be the "cutting off" of the messiah "after the 62nd week"...well after.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Sorry to take so long to get back to you.

I am pretty sure this is a reference to the days being 1000 year periods of time. Looking at the evidence here.

To start with there is the 2nd Peter 3-8 reference which is based on Psalms 90-4. Essentially telling us that time is "distorted" in the presence of the Lord. Hosea 6-2 is referring to the 3 days as being in the presence of the Lord. What I would say is going on here is a little obfuscation here. Deliver a fact but make it easy to miss if you're not well read on the rest of the bible. After all Daniel 12 states the book of Daniel was sealed. And in the book of Isaiah which is about curses by the way, it says this in Isaiah 6.

9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate'
12 And the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.
13 But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.

People under a curse are not supposed to understand it until it's over.

Also this day of Jezreel prophecy promises the 3rd day. When Israel was to be restored for a day or 1000 years. So looking at history here we have the following.

70 AD the temple is destroyed.

135 AD the diaspora starts.

All the problems the Jews faced since then. The discrimination. The pogroms. The Inquisition. The Holocaust. Even the "static" they are getting from the Arabs today. It looks like a Prima Facie case of a Leviticus 26 curse to me.

Then the rebirth of a nation of Israel in 1948.

So based on all the biblical prophesy out there I would say that the curse ends with a bang. The Apocalypse.

So yes, those "days" have to be 1000 year periods of time.

Also there isn't anything that says the curse and the church age is exactly the same length of time. I would also say the return of Jesus Christ happens a bit earlier than that.

And a thought here. In Matthew 24 it says this is the sign of the return of Jesus Christ.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

If the "carcass" is what I think it is then the days of the tribulation of the carcass is already running. What is it? A Daniel 8 reference. For after the ram is killed it leaves a carcass. And if you consider that the US fits the role of the goat well, He's coming shortly now. Sooner than you think.

a reply to: ntech

Im just going to say what I believe. Jesus is taking the Church on 9/16/2016, then He will make His return on an unknown day/hour in mid-September of 2023. From His death to His 2nd Advent, it would be 1,995 years. There are several reasons why I believe this, and I have even found a woman with the gift of prophecy that has confirmed this information.

Here are some of my calculations:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Here is Iris Nasreen's vision about 2023:
gods-messenger.webs.com/year2023.htm

The dates disclosed in her visions follow the bible's unique number pattern.

Psalm 90 states that a day is as/like 1,000 years to the Lord, but that is a poetic simile. The true measuring system that God established is 490+70+490 years or 1050 years. Daniel's 70 weeks shows Israel's last 490 years before the Millenium. Since Israel only has 7 years remaining, the 1948-67 Zionist State is not the fulfillment of prophecy, but a man-made political movement. Israel will be regathered and resurrected by Christ Himself at His return to earth, no sooner.

May I ask why you think the 70th week has not started and was cutoff in the middle of the week 3.5 years of Jesus ministry? Leaving only 3.5 years for the tribulation. Show me a 7 year time line in Revelations please.

a reply to: ntech

There was a fantastically long & monotonous video I saw on a presentation on an assessment of Daniel, I have a small notebook somewhere in which I consolidated the information. I'll try to find & repost anything I can make sense of.

This video, which I saw at least 4 years ago, convinced me that the true changes in our reality will begin to escalate starting 2016.

a reply to: Eunuchorn

Could you give a short explanation on why you believe 2016 is the year of change? I post from my phone and dont always have the ability to watch videos.

Thanks.

a reply to: ntech

Heaven is only 5 minutes away

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I'm still a ways from the house, but as a recall it was all calendar extrapolations & time tables based off descriptions of things being done in the text & the Jews having Friday as the wrong day of the week to be all...Shabbatty?

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest


Quote, Since Israel only has 7 years remaining, the 1948-67 Zionist State is not the fulfillment of prophecy, but a man-made political movement.

Really? Consider the fig tree parables.

Matthew 24
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Matthew 21
18 Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.
19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
20 And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!
21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

Luke 13
6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

The original parable appears to be missing but from these pieces it appears there was an original parable about a fig tree and it was being compared to the nation of Israel. The references to the fig tree appear to be referencing the original parable in a form of shorthand and only those in the know really knew what Jesus was saying. It would simply go over the heads of an average listener or reader. So what is he saying?

I Israel was to be destroyed in Matthew 21 and restored in another season in Luke 13. That's a prophecy. And in Matthew 24 he's stating that when you see end time events start to occur then the Apocalypse will happen in the lifetimes of the generation of when the first events happen. Approximately 70 to 80 years according to Psalms 90-10.

Now we'll never be able to tell when the first event foretold in Matthew 24-14 happened we do know it has already happened. Why? Because the rebirth of the nation of Israel was foretold to us in Ezekiel and Luke 13. That's the 2nd fig leaf.

And just to mention it. I believe Jesus Christ was aware of the curse in Hosea at this point. And that's why the original fig tree parable vanished. He told them not to write it down.

a reply to: ntech

The fig tree is Israel during the 70th Week, not before. The fig tree sprouting is Israel believing in Christ up to His return. Currently, Israel is occupied by athiest Jews and Law observers who reject Christ, so there is no way that the Fig Tree parable can apply to the Zionist State. The fig tree is still dead.

Like I said Israel only has 7 years remaining. There is no way that modern day Israel is fulfillment of prophecy. We will know when the prophecy is fulfilled when the Jews are ALL regathered and resurrected at once.

a reply to: ntech

I think your talking about the work from the chronicle project.org and Daniel 9 found here

thechronicleproject.org...

v24 Seventy! Seventy therefore to break up your (nation), shall come upon your people and to come upon your revered city. For all shall begin to revolt. And toward the (people) shall arise continuous atrocities. And it shall cover the burden. And for the (people) it shall bring absolution for the accrued violations. And for a seal that shall come in the future and therefore it shall bring, and is for, the anointing of the inner sanctuary of the Tabernacle.
v25 And continue to know and proceed to inform; a come forth is decreed, derived of the aged and family lines of Jerusalem unto the high priest. Therefore this shall come first, seventy (AD), seven (months of warfare) and seventy (thousand men). Sixty and (two) years, they shall
proceed to return and therefore plan to rebuild street(s) and to withdraw being to position. And amid distress, the times shall pass.
v26 And after the seventy (A.D.) happens, sixty and (two) years. The high priest will be restrained and he shall prepare for his and the city and the place of reverence, (temple mount), so to collapse for a great length of time. A people shall be led, they shall go into and shall be
reaching (Jerusalem), amid to spill out and unto, to reach war, therefore to specifically locate those to die.
v27 And the sovereign, ongoing toward many shall invade to unify. And the invaders arrows shall slaughter complete family lineages. And that which goes before (them) as a standard; wings. Detestable is that name of those (being slaughtered) and unto (them) an end. Andtherefore it is ordered to perpetuate your, this be upon those names.

Further recommended reading on the history of the event.

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

The ancient Hebrew is available for viewing along with the English at the link above.

Sure messes up all of the other theories, and the answer is so simple. Occam's razor anyone?

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I'm not so sure about that. I always thought that when Christ comes through the clouds to gather up the Church, it would be a phenomena very hard to ignore. I did think that there would be not one person who could not help but see it and know what it was.

God has indeed gathered the Jews back into Israel whether they believe in Christ or not, and Jacob's Trouble is His way of dealing with that issue. It is how He will remind them who He is and who they are and what the proper relationship between them ought to be. And only a remnant of a remnant will come out from Jerusalem and be spared, but they will come to know Christ upon His return.

Just because there hasn't been any mass conversion of Jews in Israel doesn't mean that God's hand hasn't conspired to move them there for His purposes and design.

a reply to: ketsuko

The church is Israel, ie: all the faithful of God represent Israel..

Philippians 3:3
For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh

Romans 2:29
No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God's Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people.

Galatians 3:6-8 states, “Consider Abraham: ‘He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.’ Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham.

Galatians 3:29
29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.

The gathering of Israel in the last days, is the gathering up of the Christians who left the faith (Israel) back into the fold, and the gathering of the hypocritical Christians (Judah)..both are being called to repentance in the last days, this is the Israel you see...

You aren't looking for a mass conversion of Jews, you are looking for a revival.