Is the West a society of addicts? Or: the change of food

a reply to: Pitou

Pitou, thank you so much for starting this thread.
Star & Flag

Lets go back to the OP and replace the word “epidemic” with “a problem of epic proportions”. And while we're at it take out “obesity” and just use plain old “FAT” instead. Once we take these two points of contention out of the discussion, maybe we can bring this thread back on track.

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Queenofswords:

This may sound a bit off-the-wall, but does anyone know if there is such a thing as reverse anorexia? I ask this because I see people, women especially, wearing attire that they have obviously had to use a gigantic shoe horn to stuff themselves into. Then they strut around like they are the sexiest thang on the planet! When an anorexic looks in the mirror, she sees herself as fat even though she is emaciated. Do some people look in the mirror and see themselves as thin or normal when they are actually obese? Maybe there is a new mental disorder out there.

I'm not sure if there is a name for that issue, however I do know that when I am really upbeat or doing my yoga I tend to forget that I am carrying around an extra 50-60 pounds because it doesn't impede me. I feel good, therefore, in my mind I am great. Then I try to get a pair of jeans to fit or catch a glimpse of myself in a picture or mirror and can't believe it. UGH! Is this simply denial on my part, no I don't think so. I read and research a lot on diets, weight loss and healthy eating, so I know what I should be doing and why, but it is such a struggle to comply, and then food becomes my comfort.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I can be doing very well on a plan and lose weight, but like that old potato chip commercial “bet you can't eat just one” if I get that first taste of sweets...whoohooo binge time. I agree that for some people, myself included, junk food is an addiction that is hard to break. I am no stranger to addiction, was a smoker for most of my adult life, but was able to quit “cold turkey” about 11 years ago (there were a few prior failed attempts). Over the past decade I have lit one cigarette and put it out right away. Yes, the cravings for a smoke are still there and know that I would be back to a pack-a-day habit immediately upon starting up again.

I have since replaced my addiction to smoking with one over eating and that is a far more difficult habit to break. So combine the weight gain with having my thyroid irradiated in 2009 & menopause and the weight loss process bogs down tremendously.

Now before the naysayers jump all over the lets blame the thyroid as an excuse for obesity I can speak from experience of the effects this gland has on your body. I had been treated off and on for “Graves Disease” from my early twenties until middle age (this is why my thyroid was killed off). When the Graves (hyperthyroidism) was active I could, and would, eat everything, and anything, in copious amounts and still be losing weight. I weighed 116 pounds at one point and was skin and bone, I'm 5' 4” and it didn't carry well for me. There was also a point in time where I would eat a huge lunch and then scarf down 2 or 3 doughnuts at my desk. It was to the point where my co-workers would follow me to the bathroom thinking that I was anorexic and purging everything out. Not the case, and besides what a waste of good food that practice would be. During those times I would take anti-thyroid drugs until it was under control (remission if you will) and then go off of them until the Graves was triggered again.

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I truly believe it is the processing of foods since the 50's, and the relative ease of obtaining it, that has created our current state of health. There are many great documentaries on the web that bring this fact to the fore front. I am now going to finish watching the video in the OP and hope that some discussion around it and others will begin. This is a great topic and I hate to see the thread get derailed.

Namaste,
YogaGinns

a reply to: YogaGinns

There have been some really good point brought up in this thread. The fact that people are willing to discuss the language of this problem, definitions and consider other points of view leads me to beleive that some at least are interested in more than a whole-sale swallowing of cods-swallop and call it "common sense"

First we need to discuss the word "obesity" and think of a proper definition. We also need to discuss the meaning of the word "addiction" and what the effect of an overly broad usage is.

Then before we can say we have an "epic problem" - we need to strip away propaganda and see what is really happening on a population wide basis.

I don't have sufficient time to devote to these issues right now and give them proper attention. I will return shortly. However, as food for thought, I will leave you with this link:

www.thelancet.com...

please look to the right and click on this " Interactive visualisations interpret the GBD 2013 Mortality data

Life Expectancy & Probability of Early Death

Life Expectancy Visualisation "

To whomever said life expectancy is falling - sorry that just isn't true

Then look at cardiac diseases in the united states - again - show me where cardiac disease is increasing - it just isn't~

Play around with the link and see what information you can find that shows we have an obesity crisis of epic proporations.

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

so am I to take it that no one found the increasing rate of disease supposedly CAUSED by the obesity crises of epic proportion!?

Tired of Control Freaks

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: anonentity

And I assure you that Big Pharma is funding both the anti-smoking crusade (think of the 3 billion / year gummy bear, patch, lozenge quite-smoking devices) and the anti-obesity crusade (think diet pills).

I notice that public health changed the criteria for the diagnosis for diabetes at the same time that they changed the criteria for "healthy" wieght. It wouldn't surprise me that they changed the criteria for blood pressure and cholesterol as well.

Anything to get people on Big Pharma drugs for the rest of their lives.

Tired of Control Freaks

They did change the criteria for high blood pressure, the normal reading for a twenty year old was 120/80 the past criteria was to add one point to the 120 for every year the patient was over twenty one years of age. I.e.. a forty year old reading 140/82 would in the past have been considered normal. But now 140 is considered high risk and requires medication.

As far as high blood sugar is concerned, I can only find that a fasting reading in the morning, of over 7mmol, twice is considered pre diabetic . But any random reading hitting 11 twice is considered to point to diabetes. The only thing that most doctors seem to agree on is keeping it around 6 most of the time is ideal. But you can bet your bottom dollar that, the high sugar starch diet, would cause a lot of peaks, add just the smallest infection at the time of the reading and you've got a diabetes epidemic. People might not be naturally diabetic but bombarding the body with high carb and sugar diets has to have a downside. The latest was that the fat accumulation around the pancreas, caused many peoples to malfunction. So fat again is the main culprit, and most are from over consumption of dairy produce.

a reply to: anonentity

In 1998, the American diabetes Association changed the meaning of fasting glucose concentration. It was reduced from 7.8 to 7.0, thus overnight creating thousands of new diabetics.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

A change is also proposed to the diagnostic cut off point for fasting glucose concentration, reducing it from 7.8 mmol/l to 7.0 mmol/l. This change introduces a new intermediate category, impaired fasting glucose, defined as a fasting glucose concentration of 6.1-

a reply to: anonentity

So in 1998, the catagories of BMI was reduced thus creating brand new overwieght people overnight thus creating 25 million new "fat" americans

www.cnn.com...


That is an awful lot of work in 1 year isn't it? Change the meaning of BMI and create 25 million fat americans - change the diagnosis of diabetes, thus creating millions of new diabetics, - change the normal BP thus creating millions of americans who now have high blood pressures and require medication.

And in the meantime, the cataloguing of health of the public shows no increase in disease.

And yet and yet - they seem to have no problems announcing that laws must be passed to protect the public from the "obesity epidimic"


Is something beginning to smell rotten in Denmark to you?

Tired of Control Freaks

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: anonentity

So in 1998, the catagories of BMI was reduced thus creating brand new overwieght people overnight thus creating 25 million new "fat" americans

www.cnn.com...


That is an awful lot of work in 1 year isn't it? Change the meaning of BMI and create 25 million fat americans - change the diagnosis of diabetes, thus creating millions of new diabetics, - change the normal BP thus creating millions of americans who now have high blood pressures and require medication.

And in the meantime, the cataloguing of health of the public shows no increase in disease.

And yet and yet - they seem to have no problems announcing that laws must be passed to protect the public from the "obesity epidimic"


Is something beginning to smell rotten in Denmark to you?

Tired of Control Freaks

The smell is pretty overwhelming. Its fairly obvious that their is a ruling Corporate Cleptocracy that worked out around 1970, that dumb people were profitable, and the dumber they were the more profitable they were. Also realising that handing out a few goodies to those that mattered, got them anything they wanted with regards to government legislation etc. "Never give a sucker an even break" and "A fool and their money are soon parted" comes to mind. Around this time the dumbing down of education occurred, and populations became consumers on a grand scale. Along with the end of any attempt at educational Television, to the point of more Adds than programing. The ideal consumer sits in front of the TV. expecting to be entertained, but gets the advertising to a point where it must almost be mental torture, this in turn leaves a restless bored individual that consumes during the add breaks, then wonders why they are on psychotic medication, because of violent and suicidal thoughts. The "powers that be" then have to ramp up various organs of security to contain the outbreaks that are now bound to occur. Which we have seen occurring during the time in question.

So we have an interesting world unfolding, where people need protecting from themselves. The problem is that never before in human history have the elites been able to have so much control over a given population. In ancient times the security forces were limited in number because of recourses, now its not the case. In twenty or so years social legislation has occurred that would have been unthinkable before, Gay marriage for one. It only became an issue when people were told it was ok to be gay.This needed a population that could be steadily groomed via the media to finally accept it as the norm. The same with racialism. Non smoking. Accepting that goods in the shops are made with forced child labour .But at the same conducting a hunt for paedophiles that are lurking under every bush to assault your children.. Accepting that a communist society is now a major trading ally. Accepting that the adult entertainment industry is normal. Also that their is a population of terrorist about to chop your head off. Which curtails the freedom of the average citizen.

Sorry to have gone of thread, but "Joes" been dumbed down to the point of, accepting all types of economic legislation, that enrich the few at the expense of the many. So no wonder he's eating himself to death, after he's run out of money for health care, he's of no more use anyway.

a reply to: anonentity

Nice rant LOL but all true.

But to get back to the OP - Does an obesity "crisis" really exist!

Remember that they are comparing the wieght and hieght of people in 2014 to people in 1950. We know that the comparisons aren't even. BMI has been changed. But lets looke at people in 1950.

Those people went through a great depression when good food was scarece and then fought a world war, complete with food rationing.

Do you think it was an accident that people in 1950 were chosen as the comparison point?

Tired of Control Freaks

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: anonentity

Nice rant LOL but all true.

But to get back to the OP - Does an obesity "crisis" really exist!

Remember that they are comparing the wieght and hieght of people in 2014 to people in 1950. We know that the comparisons aren't even. BMI has been changed. But lets looke at people in 1950.

Those people went through a great depression when good food was scarece and then fought a world war, complete with food rationing.

Do you think it was an accident that people in 1950 were chosen as the comparison point?

Tired of Control Freaks

Good point, but history has it that the health of the British people during the end of the war and during rationing was the best that it has ever been. Now its not surprising that when the Nazis invaded Denmark they stole all their pigs and cows. Hey Presto the general health of the Nation of Denmark improved , with heart disease falling to all time lows. When all the livestock was repatriated after the war, the heart disease rate went up and back to normal. That is no magic coincidence. Because the base rate for health was taken at a time when it was the best. So again a health Paradox. Which might make one ask, does the human body respond well to plenty of milk or Bacon, or the scarcity of it. I'm not including the greens, because at a push you can forage for a lot of healthy stuff, that grows wild. Again everyone smoked like chimneys during those times. In rural China everyone smokes like a chimneys ,but to have Dairy or Pig on the menu is a rarity, but they remain healthy, and free of the diseases endemic in the West. The truth of the mater is that the human body, for the past millennia, was not designed to exist with an excess of certain foods. Add all the other S&^% that stops it decaying on supermarket shelves so its no wonder that, the snake oil sellers have the medication. Any machine will clog up with crap in the end, the human body is no different.

The smoking thing is going to be interesting, because as the smoking rate drops, the protective effect that the nicotine had on the cells, with regards to Parkinson's and Alzheimer's disease, will be gone, and the food lacking in Nicotinimide which off the top my head is Vitamin B3 , which the lack of apes Schizophrenia. Will in all its entirety be revealed, if its not being done so already. Again another mental deficiency that big pharma can profit from.

a reply to: anonentity

history has it the health of the american people was the best after the war and rationing? That is what you are told however, please provide evidence that it is true

Remember average age of death was only about 65 years compared to 80 years now - average age of disability was about 45 years then and about 65 years now.

Whereever did you get the idea that people had better health in 1950?

Baby boomers have lived the longest, healthiest lives in the history of the world!

Tired of Control Freaks

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: anonentity

history has it the health of the american people was the best after the war and rationing? That is what you are told however, please provide evidence that it is true

Remember average age of death was only about 65 years compared to 80 years now - average age of disability was about 45 years then and about 65 years now.

Whereever did you get the idea that people had better health in 1950?

Baby boomers have lived the longest, healthiest lives in the history of the world!



Baby Boomers are sucking down the pills like their was no tomorrow. They are the mainstay of the Pharmaceutical industry. They have bought these years because they accept that they will have their illnesses managed, not cured. Its accepted we are living longer, but not healthier. I'll have a look and get back to you with some stuff regarding Denmark.


Control Freaks

a reply to: anonentity

Anonentity

The meaning of age of first disability is that it is the average age at which the first chronic disease (cancer, heart disease, arthritis, diabetes).

The age of first disability for the boomers is 64. That far exceeds the 45 or so years of disability free life back in the 1950s

Tired of Control Freaks

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: anonentity

Anonentity

The meaning of age of first disability is that it is the average age at which the first chronic disease (cancer, heart disease, arthritis, diabetes).

The age of first disability for the boomers is 64. That far exceeds the 45 or so years of disability free life back in the 1950s

Tired of Control Freaks

I had a quick look and came up with this, it also mentions autopsy reports done on the young men killed in the Korea and Vietnam conflicts. When you have a culture that pushes a billion dollar industry, with regards to death and disability caused by the over consumption of Dairy. Denial will be the first thing, because its so yummy. Then some stooge with a degree will phrase his words carefully, and if you have the wit to analyse what he is saying, he wont tell you its safe, he will just say that overconsumption of most things is bad for the health. But never tell you what a safe dose is. nutritionstudies.org...

a reply to: anonentity

ok Anonentity

I have determined what you are talking about. There was a brief blip in the rate of mortality in Norway during the war years.

Many doctors like Ornish - pointed to this blip an dused it to sell their diet books. Here is the problem - blips in statitical deaths happen. It was the war years. Men died of other things before they could die of heart attacks. Its as simple as that!

Here is literature published at the time showing the average nutrient intake during the war years for the norwegian population. Please notice that animal protein was still ont he menue and that caloric intake did not vary all that much.

www.ssb.no...

To what extent this increase is due to changes in the diagnostic terminology used by the certifiers, is impossible to say. However, part of the increase is undoubtedly due to amelioration of the statistical material, with transfers from the categories "All other and unspecified heart diseases", and, in the age-groups 70 years and aver, transfers also from the categories "Senility and other ill-defined or unknown causes" (see table 2)

As you can imagine - during the war years - no one was too worried about conducting accurate autopsies and keeping statistical records.

healthylongevity.blogspot.ca...

if you click on this link - you will find the table showing nutrient intake.

Ornish and others used this small blip in statistical records to support their theory.

You will also remember that they are quoting third world developing countries - like Fiji - also are not all that diligent about autopsies and statistical records.

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Further Anonentity - you are forgetting other populations in the world that have a very high animal protein diet and stil very low rates of heart disease - Eskimos for instance (eat a lot of fish and a lot of omega 3s).

I have no intention of rejecting the fear tactics of public health, intended merely to support taxing food - with the fear tactics of individuals intended for the purpose of selling books!

The fact is - even with your mention of Norway - during a time period when people died of infectious diseases like pneumonia, thus sparing them a death of heart disease, the age of death from cardiac disease was less than 50 years of age and even down into their 20s.

I maintain and submit that merely proves that we are healthier today - even if we die of cardiac disease - we die at a much later age.

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Thank you for the link to the Lancet that visualization comparison is quite extensive and I've been playing around with it some and see where the graphs show that the levels of "death" by certain diseases have dropped and or leveled off in a lot of countries. However there are increases, to some in the adult demographic more so that the middle aged and seniors.

Because the data is showing that people are not "dieing" in larger percentages from these diseases does not necessarily mean that the incidence of them have not increased.

It was mostly the hypertensive heart disease that I looked at and US & UK seemed to have the most growth over Canada, Denmark and Norway. I have not had a whole lot of time to really search it and will delve into it further when I can.

Perhaps it just proves that the medical/pharmaceutical industry is able to treat and control them better. So as our chance of disease increases so do the number of drugs created to extend our lives, without inherently removing the base problems.

I finally was able to watched the last of the videos and found them to be very disturbing as to how the whole super-sizing phenomenon has come about. As always it is the corporate bottom line as the driving force behind these decisions. There are a lot of questionable practices in the processing of food as we have come to know it. Would more and tighter regulations on these foods curb our growing waistlines? Who can be sure, but I do know that before so many "convenience" foods were available a lot less material went into the clothes we wear.

All I know is that I can sit at a mall, park, fair grounds, sporting event, wedding or funeral (pretty much anywhere) and see more overweight people then those who are average or excessively underweight. There is definitely a problem with the modern diet, be it overeating and lack of exercise, or the fact that we get addicted to foods.

New discoveries in science prove that industrial, processed, sugar-, fat-, and salt-laden food—food that is made in plant, rather than grown on a plant, as Michael Pollan would say—is biologically addictive.

The problems with food addiction are compound by the fact that food manufacturers refuse to release any internal data on how they put ingredients together to maximize consumption of their food products despite requests from researchers.

Source

I have been trying to find a documentary I watched a few months ago on the effects of soft drinks on obesity but have not come across it yet, but will keep looking.

some other sources on food addictions:

Health Line
Authority Nutrition
Prevention

Namaste,
YogaGinns

a reply to: YogaGinns

Thank you for looking at the links I provided YogaGinns.

Now that communicable infectious diseases are pretty much controlled, it is clear that the chronic diseases will take the number 1 spot as the greatest cause of death (we all die - there will always be a number 1 cause of death). If you conquor cancer - then it will be heart disease or visa versa ect.

But consider, if you will, the message that is being sent by public health. You have to remember that public health was created to combat infectious diseases. Now that challenge has generally been met, the role of public health is pretty much reduced to keeping the food supply clean.

Where does that leave organizations like the World Health Organization? Well there is still lots of infectious diseases in the third world, along with scarcity of food, medicine, vaccines and clean water. But do you really think that a small village in Africa can keep up with funding the WHO?

No no no! There is no money for the WHO in the third world but how do you keep the developed worlds funding intact?

Well, now that non-commicable diseases are the leading cause of death in the wealthy countries - you need to pretend to be tackling those diseases.

Now the actual CAUSE of these diseases is actually unknown, but if you do a bunch of studies showing that the risk factors for these diseases are smoking, obesity, diet, drinking ect. you have a whole new field opening up showing people how to control those risk factors.

So essentially - you never have to find a CAUSE of any particular disease - you can just blame those who get it of having CAUSED their own disease.

You have seen the information - you know that baby boomers (now in their 60s and 70s) have lived the longest and healthiest lives in the whole history of mankind.

So now I ask - if there is an obesity "crises" - SO WHAT??????? We are living longer and healthier than ever before - the obesity crises has not effected that. Do you believe that if tobacco and alcohol were eradicated and diets were altered to reduce meat, fat, carbs, etc - that dealth itself would be conquored and we would all live forever?

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

So now I ask - if there is an obesity "crises" - SO WHAT??????? We are living longer and healthier than ever before - the obesity crises has not effected that. Do you believe that if tobacco and alcohol were eradicated and diets were altered to reduce meat, fat, carbs, etc - that dealth itself would be conquored and we would all live forever?

I am not denying that the average life span has increased for those living in 1st world cultures. And, no I don't think that taking away those three mighty evils (alcohol, tobacco and processed foods) will give us immortality. But what I would like to know is the difference in the medicines and supplements that the average person takes today, compared to those in the same age brackets 50 years ago. I do not remember my parents taking much more than an aspirin for pain or maybe a water pill for blood pressure. They were of healthy weights with out spending time at a gym or starving on fad diets. Now people the same age they were are on multiple prescriptions, treatments, therapies etc. There are so many more "specialists" in the medical field, where back then your family doctor did everything.

Food wasn't processed and every meal was made from scratch. I know because I have all my mother's cookbooks and rarely will you ever see a can of soup, frozen vegetables, prepared salad dressing, etc in the ingredients listings. Food was simple, satisfying and snacking was not something you did. Now we are being encouraged to "graze" instead of eating only 3 good balanced meals per day.

Heck 50 years ago there was only one Tim Horton's and the Pop Tart hadn't been invented yet. Now there is a a doughnut shop on every corner and fast food joints serve ice cream sandwiched between Pop Tarts and call it dessert. And just try to go into McyD's and order a happy meal because you want a smaller serving, cause there is no such thing as a senior's menu.

The thing that I take away from the OP's video is that because we are addicted (and if you don't want to use that term) we have become "reliant on" fast and processed foods. And the fact that over indulgence in those dietary products has led us to a place where we need drugs to lower blood pressure and cholesterol, combat diabetes, deal with ADHA, autism and hyper activity, the list goes on.

We will agree to disagree on this subject I'm sure.
Namaste.
YogaGinns

a reply to: YogaGinns

There is little doubt in my mind that people are on alot of drugs but the question I have is this: Are the drugs needed?

For example: Public Health decided that heart disease was associated with high blood pressure. So they turned around in 1998 and lowered what is considered to be "normal" blood pressure. Then they issued guidelines to doctors insisting that anyone who could not meet the new lower standard should be prescribed drugs.

Same thing with diabetes. Now anyone who has ANY of the risk factors for heart disease is automatically prescribed a statin to lower blood cholesteral.

My question is this: Are these drugs needed?

Tired of Control Freaks

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: YogaGinns

There is little doubt in my mind that people are on alot of drugs but the question I have is this: Are the drugs needed?

For example: Public Health decided that heart disease was associated with high blood pressure. So they turned around in 1998 and lowered what is considered to be "normal" blood pressure. Then they issued guidelines to doctors insisting that anyone who could not meet the new lower standard should be prescribed drugs.

Same thing with diabetes. Now anyone who has ANY of the risk factors for heart disease is automatically prescribed a statin to lower blood cholesteral.

My question is this: Are these drugs needed?

Tired of Control Freaks

Its a catch "twenty two" If you are intelligent enough to be pro active with your health. You don't need the drugs. During this thread we have discussed some interesting things. Generally speaking if "you are what you eat", then your food consumption should be prioritised to optimise your health. We know from discussion and food studies, that the cause of many of the health woes, can be described as a "syndrome".

"Syndrome" is a medical technical term for a health, "Cluster F&*^$" Which the Western diet and general lifestyle is causing. As I see it the syndrome doesn't usually break out until maturity has been reached. Take high Blood pressure heart disease and diabetes, Obesity and hormone related cancers. Breast Prostate etc. To my thinking they are all related. The unhealthy fats or Triglycerides come from animal fats. Cheap meat sausages etc., can contain up to fifty per cent fat. Milk butter, and bacon, actually contain a lot more. These move into the bloodstream, and then coat the circulation system, and unfortunately the pancreas which produces the insulin. If this organ is coated it has severe problems dealing with the Blood glucose levels. The heart has to work harder to keep the blood and oxygen circulating ,because the fats have thickened it, to do this the blood pressure goes up. As the fats deposit and coat the smaller vessels that take nutrient to the cells of the body, it has to go up higher to force it through. This becomes evident on cold days, when blood gets sluggish, and where the morning commuters have their early morning strokes and heart attacks.

At this stage Exercise wont help. After the Pancreas gets inefficient the blood sugar starts to spike and stay high, if the blood sugar goes up two points the immune system gets compromised by a massive twenty five per cent. The longer it stays high the more it gets compromised. Then the real problems start, a compromised immune system, cant deal with the normal cleansing of the body as it used to, so the high levels of Bovine growth hormone, from the Dairy produce, tell cells to start dividing faster, and the high Oestrogen levels in the same foods, feed the dividing cells. Its no secret that the fatter you are the more cancers you are likely to suffer.

The answer is simple, ingest a lot less animal fats. Carbs and sugar. In the natural world these were treats. Now they are a daily occurrence. Its not rocket science.