Chemtrail pushers/believers: you should be ashamed of yourselves

a reply to: Vroomfondel

I'm just posting to show my support to you

It is funny in nature; chemtrail-word that is.

Chemtrail is blue to you, red to other, pink for some, theres also those who see green. I mean, before we all can fight, we should define the word "chemtrail". It's idiocy to argue about an issue where there is no common ground, and the issue; chemtrail-undefined, as an abstract idea, in the scope of extremism, goes from end to end.

Sometimes i feel that the "deniers" are denying on a purpose of denial.
Sometimes i feel that the "believers" are believing on a purpose to escape the reality.

But the truth is, not single one of us in this thread have knowledge of the issue in hand. And that there are various scientific tests going on with aerosols, and more will be needed. Heck, IIRC, NASA is going to dump tonnes of aerosols, composed of thorium and aluminium in nanoscale-particles. That is "chemtrailing" for some. Some see that as a pure science.

To quote some intelligent words:

In a world of infinite possibilities, I prefer to reserve judgment until there is sufficient information to make an informed decision, regardless of how obvious the answer may seem. Obvious isn't always correct.


I'm just a redneck. Conserve your energy.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

I agree with a lot of what you say, and I didn't witness the even so can't argue with you assessment of altitude. You say you don't sit staring at the sky, we'll, I do quite a bit of that . Over the years I've taken thousands of photos, some of which ive posted on here.

With that in mind I just wanted to point out that just because you only see the # patterns a few times a year, it doesn't mean they don't happen everyday. You only see them when the conditions for contrail persistence are present. The rest of the time you would only see random, disconnected looking short trails with no indication that paths have crossed. If your not actively tracking flights on such days, you may not be aware that aircraft have flow over at all. Also, if you not actively researching and tracking flights, you'd have no reason to know what flight paths are in use at what levels. It can be easy to assume that something we haven't seen hasn't happened. This sounds similar your attitude towards chemtrails, but applies equally to mundane flights.

It's very difficult to discern the actuality of someone's experience where there is no record of it other than the observers memory. We can't know if your recollection is accurate or not so it remains hearsay unfortunately. Needless to say, your perception of what you experienced is very real to you, but we cannot share that.

If you've experienced this before, maybe you could look out for it happening again? With photographs and a definite date time and location posted on here within a couple of days of the event it may be possible to work out what's happened. Even if all that can be done is to dismiss contrails as a possibility, it would provide something to go on.

My skepticism of chemtrails is not borne out of a belief they can't happen or that nobody would do that, as I often get accused of, it's just that in over forty years around aviation as an observer and latterly as a photographer, everything I've seen supports contrails as an explanation and not chemtrails.

a reply to: menneni

On websites such as geoengineeringwatch and the many other similar ones, they talk about SRM and other geoengineering proposals, but they illustrate these articles with photographs showing contrails or aircraft leaving contrails, or of firefighting aircraft like the Evergreen 747 or similar unconnected pictures. This doesn't help to establish clarity about what a chemtrail actually is as it always leads people to take pictures of contrails above them and proclaim that they are being sprayed upon.

When one reads in depth what these geoengineering proposals are actually about from the proposals themselves rather than illustrated website articles, it's clear that they wouldn't look like airliner contrails at all, and could not either. I am personally opposed to large scale GE experiments or activities as much as anyone, but my position is that by pointing at contrails and focussing on them, people are looking the wrong way and the GE stuff can carry on unimpeded. People who don't understand contrails and think that lines in the sky are chemtrails may be seen as one of the Governments and corporations biggest assets as they will draw off any opposition into following a red herring.

The more people post about "contrails always disappear quickly so if it doesn't it's a chemtrail", the more it is obvious that people's own ignorance is being used against them. The question is, who by, and what's in it for them?

a reply to: menneni

Actually, that is a very fair statement. The definition of chemtrail changes quite often. Some of us have tried to at least explain what we are trying to debunk. For me, it's the contrails at altitude. Just the white lines you see in the sky. My bitch is that nobody can see chemicals with their eyes. So that line in the sky is most likely a contrail. Until someone gets a sample and proves it otherwise. But to post a picture and say it's a chemtrail is a lie. That's it. The whole geo-engineering thing is just a sub argument that is used when the chemtrail theory fails, and the poster has exhausted all other cloud seeding options.

It does amaze me that the new chemtrail posters seem to have been told not to look at any science regarding contrails. It's like they were told someone published lies 80 years ago to support the chemtrail camp today.

a reply to: menneni

Thank you very much. It is genuinely appreciated. :-)

a reply to: menneni

Chemtrail is blue to you, red to other, pink for some, theres also those who see green. I mean, before we all can fight, we should define the word "chemtrail".

Of course the term should be defined. One 'side' of this debate has been asking for this for quite awhile.

A short list of examples

How do you like this response?

i see very little of the above instead i see psychological games being played, or sophist doofusses thinking they're still on their high school debating team . the worst, and most offensive are the "define chemtrail, please" crowd

and last, but certainly the least there are the plain old trolls

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The "chemtrail" meme requires ambiguity to survive.

a reply to: DenyObfuscation

Ok. Very nice jab! I give no value for it tho. My point about shift-of-definition-per-discussion stands, and you should note that it's no-crowd-opinion, it's mine.

Gladly you, i, as well others can see that i'm not the type of crowd thats offensive and worst. Somehow i sense that you don't want to share my view as per your post, thats fine.

Light up dude, i ain't sharing your negativity. As per 'sides' as you've put it, i'd like to think i fight for the both sides, depending on the issue. That is, i fight for the truth and sense.

Comparing what you've replied to what network dude's and waynos's replied, makes you look like you're the one trolling, if not trolling, casting at least?

Light up, drink some chamomile-tea! I know i feel sorry for you. Let the whole "chemtrail" issue just be. And the view gets better. Could you? Try it.

a reply to: network dude
a reply to: waynos

Guys, i applaud you for your posts. Thanks for sensible chatter, as it's quite rare in these circumstances. And i agree wholly with both, i mean i share the same views, especially with waynos about GE.

I mean sincerely excellent chatter guys :-)

a reply to: menneni

Ok. Very nice jab!

Thanks!, but there was no jab, anywhere... in the entire post. I actually agreed with your statement that I quoted. I linked to others agreeing with it.

I have no idea what the rest of your post is on about but you clearly think you have a better understanding of what I said than I have. You don't. I wrote it, I know what I said and what it means... which is exactly what I said.

Perhaps you're a bit lost in translation?

i been watching these so call chem trails for a bout year ,they our who !!!!!!! all ways come out before sunrise and they return again at sunset and what i seen they always spray to the right side at sunrise and at sun set ?????????? never mind chemicals what are they hiding instead!!!!!!!! happy new year am ghost ô¿ô

originally posted by: menneni
a reply to: DenyObfuscation


Light up, drink some chamomile-tea! I know i feel sorry for you. Let the whole "chemtrail" issue just be. And the view gets better. Could you? Try it.

I'm sorry, but why should they? people are spreading fear and ignoance and i applaud them for being so incredibly patient in trying to set people straight all these years.

a reply to: DenyObfuscation

Ok. My bad. Good to have this sorted. I just felt it was kind of dull-reply to paint my post with same colors than the worst crowd -type you referred to. I clearly took it into my heart and reacted.

Perhaps you're a bit lost in translation?

Correct. It's incredibly hard to communicate on a level i would like to. I ain't got skills for it and i suffer for it.

The rest of the post, well read it again. It means that you could take a vacation from debunking this and that. It makes good for your soul. Just a kind note with good things on my mind.

a reply to: 3danimator2014

Hey, i'm sorry, but why shouldn't they? I'd grant them all a nice-and-long vacation with fruits and berries on the top! To understand my view, you need to respect more individuality.

Why in gods name should they use their time to act against lunacy?
Why in gods name you give presence to that lunacy, and applaud the actors?

Taking break from such thing as "chemtrails" is not a bad thing. Those guys around the chemtrail issue who has been long enough, i'm certain they do acknowledge my notion of a little break.

It makes me laugh:

"PEOPLE ARE SPREADING FEAR" Yes, indeed. Fear spreading in all continents, on all issues over mankind. True.

In general, stop the fear and you'll feel better. It's that easy.
Claim yourself goddamnnit (with Cartman's voice)

It's true what you've said, "they" are incredibly patient trying to set people free from their fears. But their mistake, is the one believing they can do it. It up to the individual, not the 3rd party actor, at least that is how i call it.

Ponder the benefit of positive thoughts and actions. I know i will. By the way, do you really do animations? If yes, with which software? Just asking because i've done some lately and keen on the subject. :-) Maybe we should collaborate on some awesome project inside ATS. :-)